Adjusting to Taiwan

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

How long did it take you to adjust to Taiwan, where you feel comfortable living here?

  • I was comfortable immediately, and have had no problems since moving here.
  • It took me up to 6 months to get comfortable.
  • I was comfortable within a year of moving here.
  • It took me over a year, but less than two year. I am finally comfortable here.
  • I’ve been here more than two years and I’m still not comfortable.

0 voters

I have lived in Taiwan for over a year and a half. I find that I am still having trouble adjusting to being here. Granted, my situation is a little different (having come to Taiwan in order to keep my relationship with my bf together). However, I was wondering how long it has taken others to adjust to Taiwan.

I find I have few problems. One, is the language barrier. This, I’m trying to remedy by taking twice-weekly Chinese classes with a private tutor. I waited a bit long to really get serious about this. However, they are going well. Even so, I really can’t hold a long conversation yet. As my teacher keeps telling me “man man lai.” My goal for 2004 is to learn enough to have a conversation with my out-laws… ah… in-laws.

Two, though I don’t regret moving here, as it has allowed my bf and I to stay together, I didn’t and don’t like the fact that it was our only option. Since my bf couldn’t get a job in the US, we couldn’t live there together. The only other options were having a long-distance relationship, which neither of us wanted. Or, breaking up. Which, definitely, neither of us wanted. So, we were left with both moving here.

However, I find myself still focusing on what we left and/or when we are going to get out of here. Instead (and I know this intellectually, but have trouble dealing with it emotionally), I need to be focusing on our life here – making this the best it can be, enjoying the experience, etc…

Three, I realize that after a year and a half, I don’t really have many close friends (Taiwanese or foreign). Oh, I have friends. But, other than my bf and one close Taiwanese friend, I really don’t have anyone close that I can talk to, spend time with, etc… I’m the type of person who likes/needs to have a few really close friends, instead of a lot of acquaintances. I just haven’t found that here… yet.

Add to all this that I hate my current job, but don’t see much of a way out until my contract is up in 6 months.

Anyway… how long has it taken you to adjust? What strategies have you used to make it easier? Any help and advice would be appreciated…

2

i havn’t registered a vote because there isn’t an option for me. i had already lived in japan for a year before i came here and i found taipei to be a breeze compared to that. i think that i adjusted right away, but after a year and a couple of months, i cant say that im fully comfortable. probably because i don’t see a way out of english teaching (i don’t want to do it forever- no disrespect to those that do)if i stay here and my best friends are at home. this time of the year is especially difficult but i was loving it for six months straight before now. i am like you when it comes to friends, and it’s doubly hard because there just aren’t that many people who i can identify with culturally and we foreigners are generally a transient bunch.
i’m drunk right now and i just realised that the only link i have with my own culture right now is a downloaded copy of ‘the office’’ christmas special…very very sad

3

[quote=“QuietMountain”]

I find I have few problems. One, is the language barrier. This, I’m trying to remedy by taking twice-weekly Chinese classes with a private tutor. I waited a bit long to really get serious about this. However, they are going well. Even so, I really can’t hold a long conversation yet. As my teacher keeps telling me “man man lai.” My goal for 2004 is to learn enough to have a conversation with my out-laws… ah… in-laws. [/quote]

There are plenty ways to improve your Mandarin in a county where everyone speaks Mandarin. Why “man man lai”? My friend has been to Australia for six months and improves English not much. He insists on studying in the way which he likes, so he reads books from Taiwan alone at home. Patience is good but delay is bad.

I am kind of confused. According to your definition, it sounds you need friends to hang out with. But you said “close friends”. I think close friends are hard to find in Taipei since everyone is busy while activity friends are easy to get.

If you need a friend to listen to words from your heart, mission impossible for me too till now.

[quote=“QuietMountain”]
Add to all this that I hate my current job, but don’t see much of a way out until my contract is up in 6 months.

Anyway… how long has it taken you to adjust? What strategies have you used to make it easier? Any help and advice would be appreciated…[/quote]

IMHO, you just found excuses for your dissatisfaction. But it’s difficult to guess what you really want online. Good luck any way. Above is my humble observation.

Oh… Suddenly, I have a suggestion for you ( and for myself ). Don’t waste too much time here to argue with people you’ve never seen. I’ve done it because at least I can practice English. You should save time and go out for fun.

4

not to piss on your chips but im fairly comfortable speaking in chinese and it does make life easier…but you are still a foreigner and it doesnt make making friends any easier

5

Umm… Maybe, but it’s a mutually-caused problem. Don’t blame locals and don’t blame yourself.

Why did I never see you in the game club? Are you away from Taipei now?

6

This isn’t Canada thats for sure! Us foreigners will always be foreigners in Taiwan. Not matter how long we are here or how well we speak Chinese. I don’t seek meaningful relationships with Taiwanese people. There are lots of FOREIGNERS here for that! There was a time when we stayed in our bubble and didn’t socialize (wasn’t healthy). I’m sure there are people out there with the same interests as you. The only way to meet these people is to get out!

7

i haven’t been to the game club for a long time…for no good reason. i always mean to go…but i don’t.

8

[quote=“Southpaw”] this time of the year is especially difficult but I was loving it for six months straight before now. I am like you when it comes to friends, and it’s doubly hard because there just aren’t that many people who I can identify with culturally and we foreigners are generally a transient bunch.
I’m drunk right now [/quote]

yah i can feel you on that… christmas was a shitty time for me to, so i just drank a lot… i dont find meeting taiwanese people very difficult at all… after they are familair with seeing you around they are always chatty i find(i speak next to no chinese)where i ussually spend my days i always got taiwanese people offering to assist me in differnet aspects of life… from meeting women to finding work… i guess they arent friends… but oh well

9

I have some good Taiwanese friends. Some I met in the UK, but more here. I have a few good western friends here as well.

I think my best advice for QM would be firstly to hang in there: there will always be difficult aspects of living in a country so different from one’s own, and sometimes it seems more difficult than other times. You never know what can happen.

Secondly, don’t put limits on the friendships or experiences you may have here. I’m not suggesting that you are doing this particularly; this is just general advice that applies equally to me as anyone else. I’ve made good Taiwanese friends in various places - neighbours, at the swimming pool, through work. My friends are quite different from each other. Some I talk to about some things, some about others. Some friends I don’t talk to about particularly deep or emotional things: I value their friendship just the same. As with any friendship, try to understand where people are coming from and how they see things.

A lot has been said on Forumosa previously about some Taiwanese people trying to make friends with you when they just want to improve their English. I wouldn’t analyse or worry about that too much. (Your post on the ‘think too much’ thread was good - I’m also one of these people who really does think too much sometimes). Anyway, don’t think too much, and if you find you have something in common with or get on with somebody that’s fine, if not just move on.

About language: most of my Taiwanese friends speak at least some English: some speak very good English. Of course the fact that I have some Mandarin vocabulary helps in communication, but I don’t feel it’s essential, and I don’t think that lack of confidence in language ability should hold you back from making friends. Generally you can start a conversation just by smiling at somebody.

10

Ok, two things on this comment. One, I do (and did admit, I think, in my post) that some of my delay in learning Mandarin was my own fault. I was wishing so much for that final day when I’d leave this island (with my bf), I kept putting it off hoping I’d never have to learn it. However, I am now taking a Mandarin class and trying to learn the language.

Two, as a foreigner, I find it is actually hard to practice my Mandarin, because:
a. Many of the people I’ve met who want to be my friend, do just want to practice their English. And, I don’t think I’m over thinking that. I did say “many” not “most” or “all.” The one good Taiwanese friend I do have, tends to lapse back into speaking English with me, even when I try to speak Mandarin to him.
b. My bf and I met in the US. Our relationship started out communicating in English, so it is the language we gravitate to, even when I try to speak to him in Mandarin. So, at home I speak English almost all the time.
c. When people here see me (as a foreigner) they often automatically start speaking to me in English (even if it is limited). I guess they assume I don’t know any Mandarin.
d. If I am the one to speak to them first (in Mandarin) or they actually start speaking to me in Mandarin, and they don’t immediately understand me, they usually switch to English.
d. Plus, (and this doesn’t have as much impact now) when I first got here, I taught English. So, not only did my job require me to speak English all day, but all of my coworkers (whether foreign or Taiwanese) spoke English at work.

[quote]I am kind of confused. According to your definition, it sounds you need friends to hang out with. But you said “close friends”. I think close friends are hard to find in Taipei since everyone is busy while activity friends are easy to get. [/quite]

I don’t want “activity friends” as you call them. I can find those and have a number of them. I want/need close friends – people who don’t mind just sitting and talking about personal things, etc… People who don’t just want to spend time with me because we both like the same kind of movies. You know what I mean?

Besides my boyfriend, I have one close friend. He is Taiwanese. And, even though he is a great guy, sometimes he just doesn’t understand what I am going through or trying to say, due to language issues, cultural issues and/or experience issues. I really would like to find one or two really close foreign friends.

I’m not sure what you mean by this. What I mentioned are the underlying reason that I’ve had trouble adjusting and am currenlty disatisified with living here. However, I do realize that my lack of adjustment is ultimately due to my reaction to these things… that is, it is the fault of my attitude… and that that is the real problem. I thought I had said that in my original posts. Sorry, if I didn’t make that clear.

11

A Chinese person learning English in Australia and a Canadian learning Chinese in Taiwan aren’t comparable because:

A) most Taiwanese have been studying English since they were, like, 6 years old

(and most foreigners who come to Taiwan started learning Mandarin when they, like, stepped off the airplane 1 year ago)

B) English is 10x easier to learn than Chinese (objectively - there’s a reason why English is the international language and Chinese ain’t…you can speak very, very bad English, as many Taiwanese do, and still be understood, whereas if you get even one tone wrong Taiwanese look at you as if you’re speaking Martian. That’s why Chinese will never, ever be an international language - Chinese simply aren’t open-minded and tolerant enough about foreigners mangling their language, as we English speakers are of foreigners speaking pidgin English)

12

When you get the tone of a word wrong you most likely just spoke another word (but still a valid word in Mandarin) which might have changed the sentence so that it becomes incoherent (thus the stare), where as in English if you get the pronunciation wrong people just don’t understand you because you just spoke gibberish. This is a subtle difference but a difference nevertheless.

Saying that Chinese people aren’t open-minded and tolerant toward foreigners “mangling their language” just because you get stares when you say something wrong is a real stretch, don’t you think? Perhaps giving you stares isn’t considered offensive here?

Being open-minded goes a long way toward adjusting to life here.

13

still can’t adjust to the traffic - every time i am on the road i see something that makes my eyes pop! :shock:

adjusted to the life-style: yes
friends: … well, i’m trying. My wife and i are still in that “bubble”.

going on 2 years now, it hasn’t been easy
Tolerance is the key

we’re not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy

14

The reason why English is the international language has nothing to do with its relative easiness. If we could all just get together and pick the easiest/most logical language to use in international situations, then we’d all be speaking Esperanto. The reason why English (with all of its irregular tenses and spellings) is the global language has a lot more to do with England’s and America’s dominant global positions in the 19th and 20th century.

And I didn’t find learn conversational Chinese to be THAT difficult. Admittedly, I learned it in the mainland, where people are more willing to speak Chinese with me than people here in Taiwan. Having no choice but to constantly express yourself in pidgin just to go about your daily life will do wonders for your conversational ability.

15

QM, every poster who has replied to your post has tried to respond to your questions and offer helpful advice.

For my part, I’ll try to explain what I meant better and also to add a couple more things that occurred to me.

You said it was hard to adjust to life here and identified friendships as a key factor in becoming ‘comfortable’. You then went on to say that they should be close friendships. Although you had said that language was a problem, you later said that you already had a good Taiwanese friend so wanted some foreign friends.

It takes time to make close friends, that is friends who you can talk to about emotional and personal stuff, in any country. Sometimes the friendships that take longest to develop are the most enduring. But you have to start somewhere. And to me that means not imposing barriers on the types of friendships you may make. It’s important to have a variety of different friendships. There are some things I can talk about to my western friends that only a couple of my Taiwanese friends could identify with. But on the other hand, the friendships I have with some Taiwanese people are not only strong, but also have made a huge difference to me feeling ‘comfortable’ in Taiwan, as you put it.

If you meet a friendly Taiwanese family in the park and they invite you for dinner, are you going to refuse them because you already have one Taiwanese friend, or because you think that they only want to practise their English with you? Even if part of their motivation is practising English, that doesn’t mean that it can’t develop into a stronger, closer friendship later, or indeed that they can’t be fun people to be around, and offer you help, in the meantime.

I haven’t voted in the poll because I feel that becoming used to life here, or in any foreign country, is a gradual process which gets better and better, with gradually abating ‘waves’ of discomfort. For me, things were better at 12 months than at 6, and better still at 18 months.

Another thing that vastly improved my life here was finding a rewarding and involving pastime. For me, that was exploring the mountains and countryside on a motorbike. For you, rewarding pastimes will probably be other things, but anyway, you should have at least one. If it’s something that involves meeting a variety of people, so much the better. And even if they are ‘activity partners’ at the beginning, who knows what friendships can develop later?
If I were in Taipei, I would check out the Forumosa Game Club. Seems like a good way to meet some new and interesting people, who we already know a bit online anyway.

16

Wow, QM, you sound like me 10 years ago. I can look back and tell you about mistakes I have made. I was lucky in that I could already speak some Chinese when I arrived in Taiwan. It made all the difference in the world. I would get friends who just wanted to be friends with me so they could practice their Chinese, which would piss me off. My feeling was that they can go and pay the money for an airline ticket and make cultural sacrifices and go live in an English-speaking country for a while.

I think one of my mistakes in my early years was trying to immerse myself in Taiwan everything and thumbing my nose down at having any foreign friends. Over a decade later, and an APRC to boot, I still can’t stand Taiwanese food except for dan bing, fan tuans and vegetarian fare. My idea of a vacation in Taiwan is driving to CKS and hopping on a plane. I usually only leave Taipei to visit my best friend in Chiayi. I have no interest in temples, sword fighting, or who the next president of Taiwan will be. The only hobby I have that parallels any sort of local behavior would be Taiwan beer and playing the lotto each week. But what the hell. I still pay my ROC taxes and having a choice is what living in a democracy is all about.

We have an advantage now, QM, called the Internet, which makes it incredibly easy to make both straight and gay friends than it was 10 years ago. Take advantage of that and make some friends that speak the same language and have the same interests as you, interests which don’t include milking you for free English lessons. Check out the chamber of commerces, the forumosa happy hours, the bars, the whatever. I wouldn’t trade the foreign friends I have made here for the world, but I must say I have relished the sight of these stupid local language sponges who I thought were my friends stumble into oblivity.

I really cringed when I read this:

[i]Two, though I don’t regret moving here, as it has allowed my bf and I to stay together, I didn’t and don’t like the fact that it was our only option. Since my bf couldn’t get a job in the US, we couldn’t live there together. The only other options were having a long-distance relationship, which neither of us wanted. Or, breaking up. Which, definitely, neither of us wanted. So, we were left with both moving here.

However, I find myself still focusing on what we left and/or when we are going to get out of here. Instead (and I know this intellectually, but have trouble dealing with it emotionally), I need to be focusing on our life here – making this the best it can be, enjoying the experience, etc…[/i]

I hope you are only in your 20s and do not actually subscribe to this ridiculous false choice that you have presented for yourself. If you have to go through so much anguish, then this person probably isn’t the best choice for you. Just as an abusive boyfriend that beat you would not be a good choice, one where the only way you can live is through constant language and cultural frustration is not a good choice. You have only been here a year and a half, but I can guarantee one of the revelations you will soon encounter down the road will be that there are lots of other fish in the sea and that you can pick and choose your friends. You don’t have to put up with this pain unless you really want to. I am sure you are wondering who the hell am I to tell you this, and I don’t know you or your boyfriend, but your post rings a bell, and I would like to present the bigger picture. Peace.

17

Ok, I’m not quite sure why you felt the need to write this. Have I given you the impression that I’m rejecting their advice or something? If I didn’t want to hear the advice, I wouldn’t have started the process of opening myself up in this forum (i.e., admitting to a bunch of relative strangers that things aren’t going as well as I would like them to be, etc.).

Uh, these two things are NOT related. My good Taiwanese friend speaks fairly good English and we communicate in English. Therefore, my limited Mandarin skills do not have anything to do with this relationship. With the small exception that sometimes we miscommunicate because he isn’t a native speaker and is still building his vocabulary and… well… I have a habit of sometimes talking too fast.

My comment about having a language problem was in reference to adjusting to and surviving life in general. I’ve met foreigners who have been here for years and refuse to try to learn Mandarin. They rely on their friends to help them communicate and/or they assume the Taiwanese around them will speak English. I think this is stupid. I don’t want to have to rely on others. Now, before anyone jumps on me… I am not saying I won’t or don’t rely on others. I am saying that I don’t want to spend however much time I live here always having to rely on others. I want a measure of independence.

Uh… duh!

Again, I say… duh! It’s not like I’ve only been here a month! I’ve moved an awful lot in the last 10 year or so. In most cases, it has never taken me this long to develop some close friendships.

Am I missing something? I thought I explained this in my last post. I am NOT imposing any barriers on making friends. I talk to strangers all the time, both Taiwanese and foreigners. I am, generally, a friendly person. I have even made a friend of a young man who wanted to get to know a foreigner (he had never known one) and practice his English. He said that from the beginning. There were no illusions as to why he initially wanted to meet me. We have since become friends.

I have friends from the teachers that I worked with my first year here. Most of them are foreigners.

I have friends, both Taiwanese and foreigners, who are single or coupled gay men.

I have friends, both Taiwanese and foreigners, who are straight.

Some of my bf’s family are even my friends.

But, with the exception of my boyfriend & the one Taiwanese guy I mentioned before, I have no really close friends. With these other people, we all met in different ways, spend time together for different reasons and have a good time with when we get together. However, I have not gotten close enough to any of them that I really feel like I can share myself with them personally.

I’m sorry if I gave you the impression I am being a hermit and/or handing out applications for friendships – “Sorry, I can’t be your friend. You don’t have the qualifications I am looking for.” Nothing is farther from the truth. I am very open to meeting new people. However, right now I seem to be only meeting people who turn into “activity partners.” I’d like to find some more close friends (and, YES, I know that takes time and may develop from the “activity partners”).

18

[quote]Three, I realize that after a year and a half, I don’t really have many close friends (Taiwanese or foreign). Oh, I have friends. But, other than my bf and one close Taiwanese friend, I really don’t have anyone close that I can talk to, spend time with, etc… I’m the type of person who likes/needs to have a few really close friends, instead of a lot of acquaintances. I just haven’t found that here… yet.
[/quote]

I have to say that I feel very similar. I only made very few friends here and most of them already left the island. So now when I want to go out and have a drink, there is simply no one to call. So many other posters on this forum seem so well adjusted and enjoy their lives here, so I always feel I must be odd, because I’m not exactly having a lot of fun here, but maybe that’s just me. Anyway, as you can see, you are not the only one with this kind of problems.

19

First of all, thanks to everyone for their support and advice. :smiley:

This has not been a problem. In fact, my fear would be of doing the opposite. But, so far that hasn’t happened either.

Yes, I know we have the advantage of the internet. Hence, posting on Forumosa. However, I’ve found a lot of the people that I met online say they want to get together – “yeah, we should meet for coffee” – but it never materializes. This is both singles I’ve met and couples my bf and I have been in contact with. Though, a few of the friends I do have here I have met online. (BTW, my bf and I met online while we were both living in the US. So, I am aware of the potential of the internet. :smiley:)

I really cringed when I read this:

How can you say this? How can you compare my moving to and staying in Taiwan so that my relationship can continue to someone staying in an abusive relationship? I almost fell off my chair when I read that. I don’t even see the connection.

I do not think that my choice was ridiculous or false. And, I did not present it to myself. As I said in my initial post we had 3 choices. 1. split up; 2. my bf move here, I stay in the US, and we have a long distance relationship; 3. Both of us move here. Both my bf and I felt that our relationship – what we had with each other – was special enough that we preferred not to choose #1 or #2.

But, before you think that my bf forced me to move here. My bf told me from the day we started dating that he might have to move back to Taiwan, if he couldn’t find a job. I told him then we would deal with that if the time came. When the time did come, he told me over and over again not to move to Taiwan just for him. That I had to make the decision myself, he wasn’t going to tell me what to choose. That if I really didn’t want to move, he’d understand and that we’d try a long distance relationship.

I felt what we had was special enough that I didn’t want to give it up, so I chose #3. I knew it would be a challenge (though, I didn’t realize how much of one it would be). A few times since we’ve moved here, my bf and I have talked about the situation. He has told me that if I want to move back, he’d understand.

But, as I said before… despite the difficulties, despite the challenge, despite the “anguish” as you’ve put it, it has still been worth it in my mind. It is exactly because this person is the best for me and this relationship has been nothing like I’ve ever had before, that I wanted to keep it going, that I chose to make the sacrifices I did to keep it going. This is not, in any way, like me staying in an abusive relationship just because I love him. Or, because I’m afraid of being alone.

I don’t know you either Flicka. Maybe you’ve never had a relationship that you were willing to sacrifice for. If that is true, I think that is a pity. Of course, perhaps you don’t. It takes all kinds to make the world go around.

BTW… if I haven’t made this clear in my other posts. Part of my problem with adjusting to life in Taiwan has been my own fault. I have spent too much time focusing on what we left behind and/or our eventual departure. Intellectually, I realize this and I’m trying to take responsibility for the difficulties I’ve brought to myself and change things. Hence, starting this thread.

Peace to you, too. :slight_smile:[/b]

P.S. I’m an ancient 35.

20

Sorry if you felt I was patronising you. Just trying to help.