Even some of my young (younger than 30) friends will sometimes refer to their ancestors, and will make offerings to ancestors. Here in Taiwan, that is. Could the strong focus on family ties and the belief that your ancestors “live” on after death, or has some kind of presence/influence affect some people’s reluctance to adopt here?
Very intersting thoughts everyone, and I really appreciate your “stay strong” sentiments. I have a few observations you may find interesting:
This anti-adoption mindset appears to be an Asian mindset as I’ve had the same reactions from Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean people. Just yesterday, I talked with a Korean woman (incidentally she has been employed as a nurse at an orphanage for over 15 years) who asked me the same “don’t you want to have one of your own” question.
As an example of an accepting attitude toward adoption, some of you have mentioned families in the past who adopted out their children because they couldn’t afford to raise them. This acceptance appears to apply only to adoptions before the “economic miracle”. Many people have said to me that these families were forced to adopt out their children and relied on the kindness of other families. Today, as the argument goes, adoption occurs because birthmothers are irresponsible and probably not very intelligent. Further, these bad genes are passed down to the child, whom it is believed will cause the adopting family loads of bad karma.
Finally, the issue of inheritance. It seems Taiwanese people don’t want to leave their money to a child who is not blood related. I haven’t figured this one out, yet. I think twonavels observations are hitting on something-- it seems the hereafter and Buddhist beliefs are coming into play. My problem is I know too little about these beliefs to get a grip on the underlying objections.
I’m curious to hear your insights.
I have heard older generations in my family saying something along the lines of “but you don’t know where this child comes from and what his/her parents are like; what if they were criminals?” when I talked to them about adopting. I think they have been watching the news again (if you call that news. Remind me to add that to the list about things I wish could be different in TW.)
But I got that they were worried about my welfare. After I took the time to communicate with them, the worries seemed to life quite a bit and they were able to see how it can be a great thing for both parent and child. Dude, my own biological child could kill me anyway. Who knows, maybe even more likely. (kidding, kidding only.)
If you read Margery Wolf’s Women and the Family in Rural Taiwan you’ll learn some interesting things about rural Taiwanese attitudes toward children
If you read Margery Wolf’s Women and the Family in Rural Taiwan you’ll learn some interesting things about rural Taiwanese attitudes toward children
[quote=“Sam Vimes”]
What superstition? Outmoded social assumptions, maybe, but why do you ascribe a disagreeable social attitude with superstition and ignorance? From the Chinese perspective, there appear to be very good (historical, now possibly outmoded) reasons for regarding adoption as they do. It doesn’t make it right, but it might help the OP to understand that this has arisen not not just because he’s surrounded by ignorant superstitious natives.[/quote]
I’m still not clear on what the “Outmoded social assumptions” are? Seriously. Would you spell it out for me?
Bodo
Assumptions that adoption signifies a specific contractual exchange between families in order to address specific problems such as poverty, a lack of male heirs, a lack of marriage prospects for one’s progeny, and so on. If those specific circumstances weren’t present, adoption wouldn’t be something that a family would want to do–kind of like taking on a mortgage without gaining a house.
(Also, given the practical, contractual nature of adoption in China, I’d guess that the Western practice of “blind” adoption might be particularly baffling to the Chinese. More like willingly taking on a mortgage for a house you’ve never seen.)
As Bu En Lai said:
My point was that adoption has a different social significance in China than in the West, and it’s foolish to dismiss a foreign custom or attitude as ignorance or superstition without at least attempting to understand the social context whence it arose.
[quote=“zhujianlun”]If these people actually fucked more and preached less I might have more respect for them.[/quote]Though I applaud the rest of your post, I have issues with this. Overpopulation is the root cause of all problems, so I would rather they fucked less (though I’d settle for more use of contraception) and adopted more. Let’s take better care of the kids that are already out there, rather than making any more. Negative population growth should be a target, not something to fear.
I dunno. It doesn’t work out all that well for a country’s economy when the older generation keeps living longer and longer, while their pensions are supported by a shrinking base of working-age younger people.
Countries like Japan and the Netherlands are dealing with these and other unfavorable consequences of actual negative population growth.
Just saw this thread and thought I’d share my experience.
My wife (Taiwanese) and I (US / Caucasian) adopted our daughter here in 2003. She’s almost 2 years old now. Responses from Taiwanese people to her being adopted have ranged from “How come you don’t have your own kids?” (怎麼不自己生呢) to “Wow, you two sure are big-hearted” (你們好有愛心 or 你們好偉大) the to the consolatory “She looks like her Daddy!” (長得很像爸爸!). Honestly, I don’t see the resemblance, but it’s the thought that counts – I’m just glad she doesn’t look like me.
We haven’t met any local person who can really approve of our adopting. They certainly approve of our daughter (she’s awfully cute), but as has been mentioned above, locals don’t seem to think much of the whole adoption thing. It seems like many people restrict it to the realm of the big-hearted foreigners (Americans and Dutch most notably) but wouldn’t ever consider it for themselves, unless they can somehow hide the fact (say by falsely registering the child as one’s physical offspring / 報親生).
But hopefully, by seeing more positive cases of up-front adoption, it will begin to lose its bad flavor iin people’s minds and hearts.
[quote=“breadman”]Just saw this thread and thought I’d share my experience.
My wife (Taiwanese) and I (US / Caucasian) adopted our daughter here in 2003. She’s almost 2 years old now. Responses from Taiwanese people to her being adopted have ranged from “How come you didn’t have your kids?” (怎麼不自己生呢) to “Wow, you two sure are big-hearted” (你們好有愛心 or 你們好偉大) the to the consolatory “She looks like her Daddy!” (長得很像爸爸!). Honestly, I don’t see the resemblance, but it’s the thought that counts – I’m just glad she doesn’t look like me.
We haven’t met any local person who can really approve of our adopting. They certainly approve of our daughter (she’s awfully cute), but as has been mentioned above, locals don’t seem to think much of the whole adoption thing. It seems like many people restrict it to the realm of the big-hearted foreigners (Americans and Dutch most notably) but wouldn’t ever consider it for themselves, unless they can somehow hide the fact (say by falsely registering the child as one’s physical offspring / 報親生).
But hopefully, by seeing more positive cases of up-front adoption, it will begin to lose its bad flavor iin people’s minds and hearts.[/quote]
Reminds me of a Benny Hill joke.
A man and woman are strolling through the park with their baby. An old woman stops, looks, and says, “My what a beautiful baby. He has his father’s nose.”
“Yes,” says the woman, “But he has my husband’s eyes.” 
Welcome breadman!
I am a bit curious. Do you come out and tell people your daughter is adopted? If so, why?
jds
[quote=“jdsmith”]
Reminds me of a Benny Hill joke.
A man and woman are strolling through the park with their baby. An old woman stops, looks, and says, “My what a beautiful baby. He has his father’s nose.”
“Yes,” says the woman, “But he has my husband’s eyes.” [/quote]
GOMEZ (looking down at their newborn baby): He has my father’s eyes.
MORTICIA: Gomez, get those out of his mouth.
[quote=“Sam Vimes”]
I dunno. It doesn’t work out all that well for a country’s economy when the older generation keeps living longer and longer, while their pensions are supported by a shrinking base of working-age younger people.[/quote]Well, while people are living longer, these ‘advances’ I think are finite. Plus, with most of the advanced countries having some sort of managed healthcare, who gets to live longer will end up being decided by factors other than merely their own wish to do so. I imagine that eventually it will be decided for you when it’s time for you to go, unless you can afford the treatments needed to prolong your life. I’m told that’s pretty much how it is already in Canada. 
Sure it will be a tough time for younger people to shoulder the burden of caring for the elderly, but the bulge will pass and the whole planet will be better off for it. Maybe medicine should be thinking of ways to improve the quality of life, up to a certain age, rather than merely trying to prolong it as far as possible without regard to whether it’s actually rewarding to the patient or not.
Back on topic, I honestly think it’s a crime to be having more children when there are already so many unwanted and unloved ones out there. What makes anyone think that their DNA is so special? :loco:
My, what a charming utopian picture you paint.
I dunno. It doesn’t work out all that well for a country’s economy when the older generation keeps living longer and longer, while their pensions are supported by a shrinking base of working-age younger people.
Countries like Japan and the Netherlands are dealing with these and other unfavorable consequences of actual negative population growth.[/quote]
That’s why it’s good to adopt children from foreign, overpopulated countries. One hungry belly less in Africa, one future working person more in your country.
Thanks!
In the beginning, I wanted to be more in-your-face and open-to-the-world about her being adopted, but now we’ve decided that we will tell close friends up-front, but with others, it depends on their motivations. If they’re genuinely interested in adoption, of course we’re happy to share with them. If we judge that they’re just looking for more juicy gossip, though (Would that be something like “trolling?”), we don’t advertise it, but we won’t lie about it either. For instance, if someone says, “How come she doesn’t look mixed?” we reply with the all-purpose classic 不會啊 (“I don’t know what you’re talking about…”).
I still have in-laws here who don’t know she’s adopted, because my parents-in-law can’t stand to have the relatives “talking.” So far we’ve chosen not to get in the middle of their feuds and have refrained from telling them our daughter is adopted. It’s pretty pathetic, but oh well. We rarely see them anyway.
[quote=“Notsu”]
That’s why it’s good to adopt children from foreign, overpopulated countries. One hungry belly less in Africa, one future working person more in your country.[/quote]
Yep those poor ignorant Africans, far too many kids. Shame the savages can’t stop breeding. Can’t they understand that if only they had less kids everything would be alright. :loco:
[quote=“butcher boy”][quote=“Notsu”]
That’s why it’s good to adopt children from foreign, overpopulated countries. One hungry belly less in Africa, one future working person more in your country.[/quote]
Yep those poor ignorant Africans, far too many kids. Shame the savages can’t stop breeding. Can’t they understand that if only they had less kids everything would be alright. :loco:[/quote]
BB, I think you’re way off mark here. I did not read one racist thing in Notsu’s post.
Chumming for effect??
[quote=“jdsmith”]
BB, I think you’re way off mark here. I did not read one racist thing in Notsu’s post.
Chumming for effect??[/quote]
Maybe I was a little harsh, and it isn’t just Notsu that I am annoyed at. It is this whole idea that Africa is overpopulated is simply accepted, with little if any thought it seems. African population densities are generally much lower than the developed world. Population control is assumed to be a key part of development, but when you look at most developed nations, a stable population is the one of the end results of succesful development as economic and social realities tend to favour smaller families. However if you think that half of your children are going to die, that there is no one else to look after you in old age etc, then you would be wise to have a few extra kids. Not to mention that at the moment a massive chunk of the African workforce, needed to drive the development process, is being killed off by AIDS.
Anyways appolgies Notsu.
[quote=“butcher boy”][quote=“Notsu”]
That’s why it’s good to adopt children from foreign, overpopulated countries. One hungry belly less in Africa, one future working person more in your country.[/quote]
Yep those poor ignorant Africans, far too many kids. Shame the savages can’t stop breeding. Can’t they understand that if only they had less kids everything would be alright. :loco:[/quote]
There are abandoned kids everywhere in the world. In West, the (healthy) kids have a good chance to be adopted. In poor countries, they don’t have a chance.
Where I come from, healthy young babies are adopted immediately. But older kids, unhealthy kids, 2-3 kids from one family are usually adopted by foreigners. Foreigners have more money and more tolerant neighbours - therefore they can afford to adopting a disabled child. And I really don’t care WHY they have chosen to adopt a disabled kid from Godknowswhere - the kid will be better off with them and that’s all that matters.
Edit: apology accepted. I think we misunderstood eachother. :flowers: