The trick to being successful as an ABC in Taiwan is to stop competing as a foreigner, because Taiwanese people will never fully accept you as a foreigner and will just see you as a fake. Instead, market yourself as a Taiwanese person with Western abilities just as good as a foreigner’s. That’s how you become the “best of both worlds”.
I’m not saying I agree with this; I’m just explaining how it is.[/quote]
It has been 3 years since I’ve moved back to Taiwan. I’ve always had a hard time with the people, culture, and the working environment. Upon reading your post, I have had one of those “AHA!” moments. I guess I finally get it. Thanks Amasashi.
Why are people mentioning conscription? When I mean ABC, I mean American Born Chinese. So unless he renounced his U.S. citizenship, he doesn’t have an ROC passport. Unless there’s some strange conscription law where anyone with slanted eyes gets drafted just as long as they live on the island, conscription shouldn’t be a concern to 99.9% of ABCs. So one of the advantages of being an ABC is that you can be an ethnically Taiwanese male and not have to serve in the military.
Unless you guys are mentioning the “fake-ABCs,” which I find quite disgusting and I wonder who would be dumb enough to fall for that sham. Having met a few fake ABCs last summer, in tw, I guessed there would be some sort of noticeable advantage at at least in the English teaching world and nightclubs.
I just need to copy/paste the above and show my highly qualified ABC colleague who has trouble fitting in after coming back from the US.
As a white foreigner with increased assimilation as married to a local, I stand perplex when my ABC colleague asking me if I always understand what our TW colleagues mean/ want " as they seem so indirect"
There must be many more disadvantages and the above post that " some positions are only for ABC"s should need further elaboration as answers. I could use it for my work as research.
Its not racist its what a lot of ABC say bout themselves. That they are bananas. yellow on the outside but inside white. They look asian but they are really just americans. SO on the outside they look yellow (han) but inside they are just regular americans.
So they get a treatment that is not entirely equal to being white in Taiwan. But they get advantages too.
I was discussing with a white american good bud of mine last nite. Hes had an asian (actually abc) lady friend for nearly 30 years. And he was saying that he felt that chinese do not ever really accept you unless you are chinese. And i was saying thats probably true. But being half chinese (taiwanese) myself, im accepted into the “inner circle” so to speak. So one almost has to be at least half chinese to be accepted totally. So ABC get this acceptance. But on the other hand some get passed over for white people if they want to teach english and the school wants a lot of white people around. When many aBC speak better english then the average white person even.
Its not racist its what a lot of ABC say bout themselves. That they are bananas. yellow on the outside but inside white. They look Asian but they are really just Americans. SO on the outside they look yellow (han) but inside they are just regular Americans.
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I was taking the piss, tommy. It’s technically incorrect, anyway. Varying shades from white to brown, with a predominance of beige, is how I’d describe ABCs. Can’t say I’ve ever seen a yellow one, unless they are suffering from liver failure or diabetes from sitting in front of their computers too long grazing on junk food.
Well being an ABC in Taiwan (the definition varies, in the US its any Chinese born in the US but in Taiwan this term also applies to anyone who spent most of their childhood abroad so acts different from locals) does have some advantage, like not being ripped off for being white, being able to haggle with market stands, etc. but the flip side is some “ABC” might not like it here…
However there seem to be a mass immigration of ABC’s lately… for some reason they are leaving America in droves. The advantage there is that usually there are little to no immigration issue except for military conscription. One of my customer is an ABC and or some reason he wants Taiwanese citizenship even though he doesn’t really need one.
However there seem to be a mass immigration of ABC’s lately… for some reason they are leaving America in droves.[/quote]
They aren’t alone. Foreigners here are multiplying like lemmings. I’m hoping to not follow them over the ledge.[/quote]
I’ve noticed that too, maybe not as many foreigners in Taiwan compared to say HK, Thailand, or China but I definitely notice a sharp increase from 2008 and onward. Before then seeing a foreigner is a sight and now there are so many that I don’t even hear kids scream “waiguoren!” anymore. Might have to do with the financial crash… probably people are starting to have this “Asian dream” thing…
What are you on about? I’ve been in Taiwan for quite some time and I’ve NEVER been “ripped off” for being “white”. I “haggle” at market stands if I so wish, although I’m normally not much of a cheapskate.
Are you confusing Taiwan with Thailand? It’s a common American mistake.
What are you on about? I’ve been in Taiwan for quite some time and I’ve NEVER been “ripped off” for being “white”. I “haggle” at market stands if I so wish, although I’m normally not much of a cheapskate.
Are you confusing Taiwan with Thailand? It’s a common American mistake. [/quote]
For a while a landlord will quote a higher rate for rent when its a white renting… I don’t know if they do that anymore but I heard of it.
What are you on about? I’ve been in Taiwan for quite some time and I’ve NEVER been “ripped off” for being “white”. I “haggle” at market stands if I so wish, although I’m normally not much of a cheapskate.
Are you confusing Taiwan with Thailand? It’s a common American mistake. [/quote]
For a while a landlord will quote a higher rate for rent when its a white renting… I don’t know if they do that anymore but I heard of it.[/quote]
You “heard of it”? Must be true then.
What are you on about? I’ve been in Taiwan for quite some time and I’ve NEVER been “ripped off” for being “white”. I “haggle” at market stands if I so wish, although I’m normally not much of a cheapskate.
Are you confusing Taiwan with Thailand? It’s a common American mistake. [/quote]
how do you know you’ve never been “ripped off” for being “white”?
Ah, you think so, must be true then :roflmao:.
I don’t think there is much ripping off going on here, especially if you know Chinese or have confidence to negotiate.
I have worked in Taiwanese companies for a few years, usually as the only foreigner. No matter if my Chinese was good or I had a long experience at something I would still be perceived as a foreigner first, especially in meetings. But I learned to accept that for what it is.
But there are local Taiwanese people here who you can work with who can get past that, colour and background etc. When that happens it’s a wonderful thing and for business it really adds a lot of possibilities.
The problem comes from lower level staff resentment as to better salaries or what they perceive as better treatment. That’s the real problem, and it’s ironic because my salary and treatment would not have been great compared to European employers, but fish in a small pond and all that.
In the end people should try to look past this kind of stereotyping, both positive and negative.
Sorry to bring the thread back on topic but i think Amasashi put it spot on
[quote]The trick to being successful as an ABC in Taiwan is to stop competing as a foreigner, because Taiwanese people will never fully accept you as a foreigner and will just see you as a fake. Instead, market yourself as a Taiwanese person with Western abilities just as good as a foreigner’s. That’s how you become the “best of both worlds”.
I’m not saying I agree with this; I’m just explaining how it is.[/quote]
This is in my experience the best way to approach things as an ABC.
I’ve been here a year - at first I had serious culture clash. I certainly felt foreign and presented myself as such - but this did not go over well at all. 50% of people , especially the more open minded and educated or travelled people were understanding, but a lot of Taiwanese would simply look at me like i was lying to them or just get confused.
Some people were nice and treated me as nicely as they would treat any newly arrived guest to their country but more often than not I didn’t get much “slack” that a foreigner would. I learned very quickly that saying that I was “American” is incorrect, my identity is simply reduced to three letters - “ABC”.
As i adjusted and my chinese got better I don’t stress my foreign-ness at all - I simply just speak chinese all the time and act as a Taiwanese would in most situations - people who are culturally aware figure out that I’m a foreignor and cut me some slack sometimes when there are communication issues.
Generally speaking this is the way to go for ABC’s(learning Chinese and just trying to fit in) - I’ve made a lot of Taiwanese friends recently and really do feel like I’m blending in and gelling with everyone a lot better, something which is probably much harder for non-Asians to do.
What are you on about? I’ve been in Taiwan for quite some time and I’ve NEVER been “ripped off” for being “white”. I “haggle” at market stands if I so wish, although I’m normally not much of a cheapskate.
Are you confusing Taiwan with Thailand? It’s a common American mistake. [/quote]
how do you know you’ve never been “ripped off” for being “white”?
Ah, you think so, must be true then :roflmao:.[/quote]
Perhaps because he has the smarts to know the true value of what he is purchasing?
Caveat Emptor is not all that difficult to follow, unless, one is very fresh meat.
I don’t think there are any advantages for being an ABC. I, for one, am one of “those”.
I’ve lived in Taiwan for a little less than 3 years, and it’s been a total nightmare. During the first 18 months, I have had classmates that told me to return to the US, ridiculed me for having a heavy accent, excluded me from group activities, and beat me for expressing my own opinions. Not to mention that my English teacher had some sort of grudge on me, because I corrected her once. (and only once)
At times, I would blame myself because of my broken Chinese and not being able to express myself coherently.
And I used to think the Taiwanese were a bunch of warm, friendly people.
[quote=“M0nsterr”]I don’t think there are any advantages for being an ABC. I, for one, am one of “those”.
I’ve lived in Taiwan for a little less than 3 years, and it’s been a total nightmare. During the first 18 months, I have had classmates that told me to return to the US, ridiculed me for having a heavy accent, excluded me from group activities, and beat me for expressing my own opinions. Not to mention that my English teacher had some sort of grudge on me, because I corrected her once. (and only once)
At times, I would blame myself because of my broken Chinese and not being able to express myself coherently.
And I used to think the Taiwanese were a bunch of warm, friendly people.[/quote]
I know people like those you’ve described can really chip away at your mental well-being.
Please do not mind them idiots. Just try to keep positive. Idiots are rude and everywhere.
Thing is, being ABC in Taiwan isn’t an advantage, its a curse. People see ABC’s as a traitor of some kind, and there’s no way to act Taiwanese and hide the fact that you’re an ABC because people can tell you’re not from here. People know I am ABC even though I never said anything about having lived in the US just based on the way I act and talk.
The treatments range from curiosity (having to talk about your time overseas over and over again) to downright hostility because some thinks ABC’s are all stuck up assholes with rich parents who bought a US citizenship…
for Amasashi
