SCL, some very good points there. I say the more the world knows about China’s war games the better.
quote:I'm sure any large foreign firm that invests or purchases parts in Taiwan will thoroughly research Taiwan's political and economic risks first -- there are entire battalions of analysts that do this for a living.
As for leaving a bad impression on the attendees of Computex, that’s unfortunate. But you’re always going to inconvenience somebody. When they schedule fire drills in the US, they don’t go around asking us if we have any important meetings that week either.
Maybe the government merely wanted to impress the visitors with how “prepared” they are for any conflict. Shit, how about these earthquakes? Think they’d be impressed with what the construction companies use for cement filler?
Pardon my ignorance, but who organizes Computex? If its a private entity, then the government office that granted the permit for the affair is at fault – for not coordinating with the relevant government agencies.
If its a government entity, then that entity’s head is at fault; he should have worked things around. The government is not one cohesive entity guys – is a collection of little kingdoms.
Its not the defense department’s job to worry about who will be inconvenienced by what they do. National defense is a paramount consideration – all other things are secondary.
I continue to find responses to this post rather bizzare! But I feel up to arguing the case…
The hi-tech industry is the leading industry in Taiwan and the largest foreign currency earner (about 30%). I can’t imagine for a moment that Chen Shui Bian and his govenment are indifferent to the jobs and income that this creates. The recent downturn in Taiwan’s economy is almost entirely due to a slump in the computer industry. In fact the current and previous govenments have been very active to promote this industry, Chen himself has a “Green Silicon Island” proposal. He should concern himself with issues like this.
Computex is the big show where Taiwan sells its leading product to the world. If you don’t work in the industry you might not know this since the general public don’t usually participate (not unless they want to buy truckloads of ICs and motherboards!)
While I agree that a better understanding of Taiwan’s situation might be a good thing, I do not think this is the right way to tell everyone. It is just as likely to frighten and scare people off! Would you for example advocate compulsory political education for all Computex buyers? If Taiwan want to make serious statements about their situation, as opposed to endless posturing, then I’m sure the world’s media will be listening.
I also do not think all purchase decisions in high tech are based on careful analysis of the facts - otherwise why would companies bother with flashy presentations, expensive booths, and go-go dancers? While some might take the time to find out more, I still think many would take one look at the chaos and just use that as evidence that maybe they should shop elsewhere. The hi-tech industry is fast moving and not always so rational.
Regarding media reports: My Chinese friends saw the (Chinese) TV reports, but did not really understand what was going to happen.
I suspect the general ambivelenvce amongst Chinese is more a national charactaristic. I don’t understand why certain issues, forced military service for example, receive little coverage. They are clearly more interested in more sensational matters. People don’t seem to believe these type of things can be changed. Representative democracy is a pretty new thing here. For comparison, imagine what would happen if this type of drill was tried in Las Vegas during Comdex. I suspect a few people might just be a little upset!
For those of you who think national defense is a priority over all, then consider for a moment who is paying for it. We won’t be buying Aegis cruisers if all we exported was rice (3% of GDP).
I suspect the general ambivelenvce amongst Chinese is more a national charactaristic. I don’t understand why certain issues, forced military service for example, receive little coverage.
Forced service is undeniably unpopular, but it might not be as big a deal as you think. Its the price of being a citizen of a country that has to fend for itself (the US is fickle and might not necessarily want to get involved – depending on the administration). The Swiss, for example, accept it as the price of neutrality.
quote:
For those of you who think national defense is a priority over all, then consider for a moment who is paying for it all. We won't be buying Aegis cruisers if all we exported was rice.[/QB]
quote:Originally posted by Adroth:
...Money didn't prevent 9/11 did it?
I'm not sure I want to take this thread too far off topic (shall we start a new one?) but...
The essence of you argument seems to be that 18 year olds with cheap guns would be a better way to defend the country.
Personally I would take my chances with a well funded professional army. If we must use bank managers and IC designers to defend the place, then Taiwan could learn a lot from the Swiss model.
quote:Originally posted by Malkie:
I'm not sure I want to take this thread too far off topic (shall we start a new one?) but...
The essence of you argument seems to be that 18 year olds with cheap guns would be a better way to defend the country.
Personally I would take my chances with a well funded professional army.
No argument from me on the validity of the “professional army” argument. And yes this is getting out of topic.
But the thing I’m trying to get at is – they think differently; they have reasons for that; and they are under no obligation to explain how they think to us.
Leave the president and military alone. They have jobs that are more complicated than you could possibly know.
quote:Originally posted by daltongang:
As for "how" I don't know about you but if God forbid an air raid were to occur I would head to the nearest shelter I could find and not wander around the streets window shopping.
So, you know where that shelter is? I don't. I certainly know a few here in Taiwan, but most of them are not in the area of my usual activities. Did anyone learn through that drill where the next shelter is? I doubt. Because these days during such a drill people are forced to do right what you said you wouldn't do in an air raid: Window (well, if there are any windows around the place where you are stopped) shopping - just with the difference they can't wander around.
Now, imho, if that air raid drill was executed in a way that does not enhance the ability of people to protect their lives in case of an air raid, then it failed its goal and was simply wasted time. And worse: A drill done in such way during one of Taiwans most important trade shows will not help "foreign buyers" to know how to protect their lives here (in most cases, they have no clue at all what is happening), but will scare off the investors so highly valued and praised each day in the papers. If the government is even willing to shut down farms to save water for the Hsinchu Science Park, they should also care a bit more about the schedule for the next drill...
quote[quote]I too had to stop what I was doing for half an hour, big deal! Going by some of the people above, you would think they had asked you to cut your arm off.[/quote]
The question is: Was it worth it? (
Not half as dumb as this Sth. African lad I saw today who came around the courner on his motorbike without a helmet. It was outside the police station in Ta Hu, so the road was basically teaming with cops. He had no idea what they were doing there. He thought he’d run into the mother of all random stops. When he was pulled over he had his hand on his head like some old lady fearful of the acid rain.
I went to offer some assistance and was a little taken by his quivering lip. He was trying hard to convince the cops that he didn’t understand a word of Chinese. Unfortunately for him, I turned up. He couldn’t just drive off because of the drill. The cops couldn’t just let him off because everyman and his dog were there watching the only bit of drama that was going to make this whole half hour pass kindly.
He really looked like he’d had a few drinks and was in desperate need of another.
quote:Originally posted by grasshopper:
Not half as dumb as this Sth. African lad I saw...
Where I come from “dumb” means “unable to speak.” I say leave the German word “dumm” where it belongs - in the German dictionary. The English word for “dumm” is “stupid” and the English word for “stumm” is “dumb.”
Everyone seems to be forgetting that the Taiwan authorities looked stupid long, long before the air raid drill. That little fiasco just made them look even more stupid than they already did, if that’s possible.
quote:Originally posted by Juba:
Where I come from "dumb" means "unable to speak."
Well, the [url=http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary]Merriam-Webster Dictionary[/url] expands a little on your definition, as it lists several meanings for the word, including
quote:6 a : markedly lacking in intelligence : STUPID b : showing a lack of intelligence c : having little or no meaning -- sometimes used in the phrase dumb luck
7 : not having the capability to process data -- compare INTELLIGENT 3a
synonym see STUPID
Malkie is right that the Taiwanese could learn a lot from the Swiss militia model and even the US military is now forcing an overhaul of the ROC on “Panama” as the ROC professional military is a joke. It was a civil defense diaster.
quote:Originally posted by Adroth:
Leave the president and military alone. They have jobs that are more complicated than you could possibly know.
I'm sorry I am used to the concept of representitive democracy. That means that if you don't think those in power are doing a good job you can say so, and if everyone agrees then they get voted out of power. Last time I checked this was the political system in place here.
My impression having lived here for a while is it is going to take people quite a while to learn this concept. Well let’s face it CKS was slinging people in jail up till the 70’s for attacking the government. I think there is still considerable complacency in Taiwan, that sort of makes it okay to voice opinions about political video sex scandals, but not about more important matters such as national defense policy.
Perhaps if more people spoke out the country might get an effective professional army, run by people who know what they are doing, rather than coerced kids pushed around by a bunch of fat cats on the graft. From a defense point of view this type of drill is a complete waste of time, as others have already explained. I suspect it is just so we don’t forget they are still there ‘defending’ the country.
Hope your god or gods, or perhaps the US come to help if China attacks!
I really have to disagree with this statement. Most buyers at this type of trade show will only have seen a little Western press coverage of the situation. To them this might look like a 53 year war of words and intellectual posturing (is it?). Most Westerners have a pretty weak understanding of Chinese politics.
I also disagree. don’t know about the rest of the world, but the US news is constantly bombarded with China/Taiwan/US stuff. Most businesspeople I’ve met keep up with this stuff much more than the average person.
quote:
If you beg me I'll tell you the answers (well the less controversial ones)
Hah! You make me laugh
quote:
Regarding media reports: My Chinese friends saw the (Chinese) TV reports, but did not really understand what was going to happen.
I find this to be an incredible statement, these drills are held every year and always in the same way. Maybe your Chinese friends are from China?
quote:Originally posted by Olaf:
So, you know where that shelter is? I don't. I certainly know a few here in Taiwan, but most of them are not in the area of my usual activities. Did anyone learn through that drill where the next shelter is? I doubt. Because these days during such a drill people are forced to do right what you said you wouldn't do in an air raid: Window (well, if there are any windows around the place where you are stopped) shopping - just with the difference they can't wander around.
Now, imho, if that air raid drill was executed in a way that does not enhance the ability of people to protect their lives in case of an air raid, then it failed its goal and was simply wasted time.
I meant not “A” shelter, but shelter in the general sense. I see it like this:
In the case of an air raid police and firemen will need to get to certain locations quickly.
People running and driving around the streets will hinder this and will likely be injured by each other and by bombs/debris.
In the event of an actual air raid such a situation should be prevented.
For the sake of the drill it is entirely reasonable that the prevention of this situation be simulated.
Is this now a question of the drill itself or the rather stupid timing!? Two seperate issues I see here.
As for a professional army: I believe the Swiss are in a slightly different situation (well, in no situation at all I would say) and surely won’t have enough population to support a professional army. In Germany we also have national service (10 month now?) for each male. There are those who think we should do away with the national service and make it an entirely professional army - something which could perhaps be done but shouldn’t people be prepared, one way or the other, for a possible worst case scenario. Sure, now it’s unlikely but when Russia was still present in the East-Germany I think it was justified. I had to do myself 15 month and though in the end it was a waste of time it wasn’t really the worst time of my life.
Yup, gotta say they weren’t too sophisticated back then.
Yeah. A bunch or farmers were able to defeat the most powerful empire of earth. At the end of the revolution, America had a standing army of only 8,000 men while the British had 65,000 stationed in North America. The British did learn however. There has never been another successful revolution against the British anywhere. It’s kind of hard to beat the Royal Marines if all you’re armed with is a cup of Earl Grey.