Aircon: Use it or lose it?

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

I dont use my aircon, (though it seemed to work OK when the seller demonstrated it)preferring to drive with the windows open, plus I don’t want to apply extra load to the plucky-but-shrivelled 3cyl obaasan-engine.

I know the conventional wisdom is that this is less fuel-efficient due to aerodynamic drag, but I think that might be at higher average speeds than I routinely achieve.

My questions are:

(a) Is this disuse likely to be bad for it? Would using it occaisionally be likely to keep it operational for longer? If so, how often and for how long should this “maintenance” running be?

(b) Conversely, IF I dont need to run it for “maintenance”, should I disconnect the drive belt (which I think isn’t shared by anything else on this machine) to eliminate residual drag and wear on the pump bearings, at least in the “not-summer”? (Its my understanding the pump still works when its “off” but the fluid doesn’t circulate through the system)

2

The pump doesn’t work when its off, but the clutch on the exterior will still spin on its bearing until it is engaged.

The pump should be operated once in a while to keep working parts and seals lubricated and to help prevent the solenoid and clutch components from corroding. Approximately once every few days should be sufficient.

3

[quote=“sulavaca”]The pump doesn’t work when its off, but the clutch on the exterior will still spin on its bearing until it is engaged.

The pump should be operated once in a while to keep working parts and seals lubricated and to help prevent the solenoid and clutch components from corroding. Approximately once every few days should be sufficient.[/quote]

Hmm…I’ve left it too long then, its been 3-4 months I think.

I just tried it and it worked, but not as well as I remember, though I may not have been using the same settings as for the original demo.

4

It might be that the unit has naturally lost some of its refrigerant. Or that it has developed a leak.

You can take it for a fairly inexpensive test at most service centres where they will prime the system and check for any leaks. If there are no leaks present, then simply top up the refrigerant and carry on.

5

i thought one purpose of having a car vs a scooter/bike here was to have a mobile air-conditioning unit. :slight_smile:

crank it to max and if it’s still not cold enough but works, as suluvaca said, it probably just needs to be topped off. i don’t know what the rules are here on refrigerant, but back in the states, this is an easy, faster-than-getting-it-serviced DIY using refrigerant from the auto store on all cars made after 1993.

6

[quote=“mabagal”]i thought one purpose of having a car vs a scooter/bike here was to have a mobile air-conditioning unit. :slight_smile:

crank it to max and if it’s still not cold enough, as suluvaca said, it probably just needs to be topped off. I don’t know what the rules are here on refrigerant, but back in the states, this is an easy (faster-than-getting-it-serviced) DIY using refrigerant from the auto store on all cars made after 1993.[/quote]

I wouldn’t call it DIY as you require pressure gauges to add it properly. It could be DIY, but its cheaper to get a workshop to do it.

7

[quote=“sulavaca”][quote=“mabagal”]i thought one purpose of having a car vs a scooter/bike here was to have a mobile air-conditioning unit. :slight_smile:

crank it to max and if it’s still not cold enough, as suluvaca said, it probably just needs to be topped off. I don’t know what the rules are here on refrigerant, but back in the states, this is an easy (faster-than-getting-it-serviced) DIY using refrigerant from the auto store on all cars made after 1993.[/quote]

I wouldn’t call it DIY as you require pressure gauges to add it properly. It could be DIY, but its cheaper to get a workshop to do it.[/quote]

They sell the gauges, hoses, fittings and enough R134a coolant to do the fill at Walmart or Autozone in a kit for like $15USD. Then it’s like $5-10USD for additional canisters. In my experience, this has been much cheaper in both money and time than a shop. You drive to Walmart or Autozone, get the kit, fill it in the parking lot if you want. 10 minutes and done. Getting in and out of a workshop is usually an hour or days affair.

But I don’t drive in Taipei, so I don’t know what the DIY automotive parts availablity looks like in Taiwan.

8

They don’t sell refrigerant at typical widget stores here, nor gauges. They sell heavy wheels, overpriced fluids, flimsy racing seats and nasty coilovers. Think ricers’R’us.

There are hundreds of automotive electrical and a/c specialist shops in every city and they are for the most part cheap and quick. Just let Ah Huang do it. When he starts talking about the filter canisters or evaporator nozzles needing to be replaced, think carefully as it starts to get into several thousand NT$ at this stage.

9

And to add, if your aircon does have a leak, then its better to have a mechanic find it. They will use a day-glow additive to assist in finding the leak and any excess refrigerant used they shouldn’t charge you for.

Don’t bother doing it yourself is my advice.

10

[quote=“sulavaca”]And to add, if your aircon does have a leak, then its better to have a mechanic find it. They will use a day-glow additive to assist in finding the leak and any excess refrigerant used they shouldn’t charge you for.

Don’t bother doing it yourself is my advice.[/quote]

Interesting about the US kit, but even if it works out more economic against US labour charges, I’d be surprised if it would here, and very surprised if its available. In my experience any but the most basic tools are very hard to find here, partly, of course, because of my zero-zongwen, but also because this is a “cannot do” culture.

Taiwanese just dont DIY. I asked someone with good English, who understood the question, roughly how many kilometres they got to the litre of fuel on their Toyota today and they said they didn’t have any “professional technical knowledge” about cars. :unamused:

Of course its getting like that in the UK now, but that’s decadence. Here I’d guess its always been that way.

Anyway I’m not really up for DIY on aircon. I don’t regard it as a vital component, so it isn’t a core skill worth attempting to acquire.

That implies that I’ll be getting it topped up mostly to stop it breaking, rather than to restore its function, so I can probably leave it for a bit.

I presume there’ll be a point where lack of coolant causes lack of lubrication of the pump, so ideally I should get it done before that point, but, since I’m using it very little it shouldn’t suffer too much if I overshoot a bit.

11

[quote=“Ducked”]…I asked someone with good English, who understood the question, roughly how many kilometres they got to the litre of fuel on their Toyota today and they said they didn’t have any “professional technical knowledge” about cars. :unamused:

Of course its getting like that in the UK now, but that’s decadence. Here I’d guess its always been that way…[/quote]

I would say that when driving in Taiwan it is very difficult for many people to say what their fuel consumption figures are due to the very different sorts of journeys which take place.
I know for example that my fuel consumption can range from 6.1 litres per 100KM to 3.2 litres per 100KM, completely depending on which route and what sort of weather we have and what sort of traffic conditions apply. (I do happen to know that my personal usage-average is 5.4 litres per 100KM though as my vehicle’s computer tells me.)

I would therefore be reluctant to generally talk about what sort of fuel consumption my vehicle gets. What it manages for me may be quite different to what it manages with someone else using it.

From my experience in the North of England it seemed as if a majority of people managed similar styles of driving and the types of driving conditions and roads were much the same for those people. There were far fewer people I would meet who would say that their driving habit changed from week to week or day to day. Average yearly mileages were much greater in the U.K. than they are here, which tended to mean there were more long distance drives made, which tended to even out the averages in fuel consumption.

I would say from my experiences between the U.K. and Taiwan that it is therefore much simpler to get an average figure from a U.K. motorist than a Taiwanese one.

The average fuel economy figures I have received from Taiwan motorists do seem to come from those that use their vehicles for commuting or for business between cities. In either case the routes these people or businesses travel are generally fairly fixed and thse common routes offer them more of a “norm” to base their finances and calculations upon.

12

[quote=“mabagal”]i thought one purpose of having a car vs a scooter/bike here was to have a mobile air-conditioning unit. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

For me its mostly survivability and load carrying, plus even without aircon the summer heat is much more tolerable in a car cos you got a roof, and don’t have to wear gear. I could try and make one of those driving school stylee roof-rack sunshades, but they don’t look very aerodynamic.

I might start using the aircon a bit though, especially in the rain, at night, when I would like to close the windows, but find the visibility too poor, and getting wet is better than crashing.

If I remove the tinted window film, manage to trace/fix the remaining leaks, (which presumably promote misting,), and maybe find an effective anti-mist spray, it might be OK to close the windows in night rain. Then I’ll probably need the aircon.

Not urgent cos I’d like to establish a baseline fuel consumption before I start using it. Last couple of fills work out at about 18km/litre, which is acceptable for semi-urban use, though of course it doesn’t approach Mr S’s Prius Parsimony.

Exhaust note is rather loud and “splashy”(wet farty?) though, so maybe its running too lean, and/or the ignition advance isn’t working. Better investigate before I burn the valves, I guess.

13

[quote=“sulavaca”][quote=“Ducked”]…I asked someone with good English, who understood the question, roughly how many kilometres they got to the litre of fuel on their Toyota today and they said they didn’t have any “professional technical knowledge” about cars. :unamused:

Of course its getting like that in the UK now, but that’s decadence. Here I’d guess its always been that way…[/quote]

I would say that when driving in Taiwan it is very difficult for many people to say what their fuel consumption figures are due to the very different sorts of journeys which take place.[/quote]

Perhaps a bad example of automative cluelessness. Its not hard to do the sum, but of course most people don’t bother, here or in the UK.

The point I was trying to make, however, was not that people didn’t know their fuel consumption, but that they didn’t consider it was possible. It was considered to be “professional technical knowledge”, which I don’t think it is.

14

The application of tint to the windshield is stupid and dangerous. Take that shit off asap and when you run into the previous owner next, tell him he’s a dumbass.

Misting btw is caused by high humidity and a relatively cool windshield. As you know, air conditioning removes much of the water vapor from the air inside the car, hence all the condensate that appears under the car while it’s running. Best remedy for misting is aircon on, full recirculation, temperature control set in the middle and windows closed.
IME, anti-misting sprays do work to some extent but cause swirling and other optical distortion, so it’s not a real solution.

15

[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Ducked”]
If I remove the tinted window film, manage to trace/fix the remaining leaks, (which presumably promote misting,), and maybe find an effective anti-mist spray, it might be OK to close the windows in night rain. Then I’ll probably need the aircon.
[/quote]
The application of tint to the windshield is stupid and dangerous. Take that shit off asap and when you run into the previous owner next, tell him he’s a dumbass.

Misting btw is caused by high humidity and a relatively cool windshield. As you know, air conditioning removes much of the water vapor from the air inside the car, hence all the condensate that appears under the car while it’s running. Best remedy for misting is aircon on, full recirculation, temperature control set in the middle and windows closed.
IME, anti-misting sprays do work to some extent but cause swirling and other optical distortion, so it’s not a real solution.[/quote]

I was really referring to side and rear windows, which definately have tinted film. I don’t THINK theres any on the front screen, but I’ll double-check.

Good point about aircon as anti-mist, which of course makes sense. It would have been struggling with the previous rate of leakage but I’ve reduced (though not eliminated) it a lot now.

I think there may be a minor leak via the bonnet air vent, perhaps blocked drains. Havn’t investigated that yet because access seems likely to be awkward, though I hope it wont require the dash to be removed.

16

I’d bet that very few people are compensating for the fact that their speedometer reads fast and their mileage therefore reads artificially high. Subaru just settled a class-action suit from owners who were denied warranty repairs on vehicles because their mileage put them out of warranty period. They were able to prove the mileage shown on the odometer is artificially high and won their claims. If your odo reads 5% high, then all of your calculated fuel consumption figures are incorrect. Of course you can understand why the manufacturers do this…

17

[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Ducked”]
The point I was trying to make, however, was not that people didn’t know their fuel consumption, but that they didn’t consider it was possible. It was considered to be “professional technical knowledge”, which I don’t think it is.
[/quote]
I’d bet that very few people are compensating for the fact that their speedometer reads fast and their mileage therefore reads artificially high. Subaru just settled a class-action suit from owners who were denied warranty repairs on vehicles because their mileage put them out of warranty period. They were able to prove the mileage shown on the odometer is artificially high and won their claims. If your odo reads 5% high, then all of your calculated fuel consumption figures are incorrect. Of course you can understand why the manufacturers do this…[/quote]

OK, Thats “professional technical knowledge”, admittedly.

First time I worked it out I used the tripmeter, (cos I didn’t have a pencil) which seems to read about 1km in ten, and would have triggered a trip to the tip if true.

18

What is the status on cars with stop-start micro hybrid setups showing up here? They’re already showing up a lot in Europe. Since in the congested driving that seems to be the case here and everywhere else, where much of the gas is wasted at a stop, a stop-start would help a lot.

When I was in Silicon Valley for a summer, a friend challenged me once to get more than 30mpg from his M3 that he lent me for the summer. He was OK with me killing the starter to see if it could be done, as his home garage was pretty well set up with lift, etc. I think this was his way of making sure I didn’t wail on he car too hard at the risk of having to do a starter swap. :slight_smile:

So I adopted some basic hyper-miling techniques and managed to get the computer to register 31mpg average over the course of a month. Then we ran the car up Pagemill and Skyline and had to reset the trip computer. :slight_smile:

Most of the time, on the daily route, it was easy to get huge instantaneous MPG. Like 50+. This was an M3, so I was really surprised at how well it could do this. I would leave for the office early enough and leave late enough to avoid congestion, and also figured out the lights on the route. Looking ahead and trying best to avoid ever stopping was also a huge thing.

When it would be worst was in the inevitable very bad stop-and-go traffic. The kind where you sit still for a minute at a time. At first, I was apprehensive, but figured out how to toggle the key so it didn’t need to reset to lock to restart the car after shut down. So if stopping was inevitable, I simply starting shutting the engine off on the coast-down, looking ahead, and starting the car right before it was time to go. Having a push-button start helped a lot here. The gains there were huge.

Long story short, stop-starts could help a lot in terms of overall efficiency and mileage. As it is, it’s already mandated to stop your engine in many parts of Europe when the car isn’t moving for a while, like at a stop light.

19

[quote=“mabagal”]What is the status on cars with stop-start micro hybrid setups showing up here? They’re already showing up a lot in Europe. Since in the congested driving that seems to be the case here and everywhere else, where much of the gas is wasted at a stop, a stop-start would help a lot.

When I was in Silicon Valley for a summer, a friend challenged me once to get more than 30mpg from his M3 that he lent me for the summer. He was OK with me killing the starter to see if it could be done, as his home garage was pretty well set up with lift, etc. I think this was his way of making sure I didn’t wail on he car too hard at the risk of having to do a starter swap. :slight_smile:

So I adopted some basic hyper-miling techniques and managed to get the computer to register 31mpg average over the course of a month. Then we ran the car up Pagemill and Skyline and had to reset the trip computer. :slight_smile:

Most of the time, on the daily route, it was easy to get huge instantaneous MPG. Like 50+. This was an M3, so I was really surprised at how well it could do this. I would leave for the office early enough and leave late enough to avoid congestion, and also figured out the lights on the route. Looking ahead and trying best to avoid ever stopping was also a huge thing.

When it would be worst was in the inevitable very bad stop-and-go traffic. The kind where you sit still for a minute at a time. At first, I was apprehensive, but figured out how to toggle the key so it didn’t need to reset to lock to restart the car after shut down. So if stopping was inevitable, I simply starting shutting the engine off on the coast-down, looking ahead, and starting the car right before it was time to go. Having a push-button start helped a lot here. The gains there were huge.

Long story short, stop-starts could help a lot in terms of overall efficiency and mileage. As it is, it’s already mandated to stop your engine in many parts of Europe when the car isn’t moving for a while, like at a stop light.[/quote]

Thought of doing this but chickened out so far, though I coast a lot. I do it (cut the engine at lights) routinely on a scooter but one is a bigger obstruction in a car if for any reason it wont restart quick, and people have very little patience with slow takeoffs here. Having said that, although I seem to have accidentally disabled the choke as collateral damage to fixing a high idle problem, it starts OK once its warm so it shouldn’t be a problem . Its very old though, so the additional wear might be an issue.

20

You’d be amazed how much faster your wagon does 0-60 after Captain Stag swapped out the STI speedo…