She managed to keep the closure quiet from the punters until the last minute, allowing her to steal their money with impunity. That’s pretty savvy, I’d say. For a common criminal, at least. Which is what she is, the thieving bitch.
Agreed.
I’d say she’s a pretty lousy businesswoman having things go tits-up so badly as they have. Nothing savvy about that.
It’s just a shame that she will no doubt remain wealthy while many people with memberships are shit out of luck getting their money back. Shitty deal.[/quote]
I do not admire her or actually think much of her, but what I have heard she is no fool, and was smart enough to see a market and pull millions of NTD out of people for gym membership, based on the simple logic of overselling membership since a certain percent of the members would never use their membership hence you could provide limited facilites. I also met a sales person from California Gym, who filled me in on this “Impulse purchasing of membership”
I do not think the business went belly up because of her bad management. I think it went belly up because of fraud and she wanted it to end. She saw better oppurtunities somewhere else i.e China and needed money to finance this. And yes she will remain wealthy and like most celebs and the like here will cry and beg on TV, and then make a reinvent themselves or resurrect themselves at a later date. For her maybe not in Taiwan
亞力山大案，消費款項已獲同意暫列爭議款!
行政院消費者保護委員會(下稱行政院消保會)於今(11)日上午對於國內健身俱樂部企業經營者之一，亞力山大集團片面宣布停業事件，消費者權益如何保障，邀集亞力山大集團(未到場)及相關主管機關行政院金融監督管理委員會銀行局、行政院體育委員會、法務部、法務部調查局、中華民國銀行商業同業公會全國聯合會、發卡銀行、收單銀行共同開會研商消費者權益保障事宜，獲得下列共識:
ㄧ、信用卡部分:
(一)對於以信用卡刷卡分期付款的消費者，發卡銀行及收單銀行同意暫列爭議款項，不予扣款(但因內部系統作業仍會於帳單上顯示，惟消費者可不用付款，並會於帳單上註明爭議款)，但消費者應儘速於ㄧ個月內提供爭議款項申請書(其上請註明已於何時向亞力山大溝通，但未獲解決)、契約書、會員資格證明文件(如為信用卡聯名信用卡不用檢附正本)、如有購買禮券、美容券以及SPA券的消費者，應ㄧ併以掛號方式提供上述文件的正本，向發卡銀行申請列入爭議款項。
(二)對於以信用卡刷卡一次付清的消費者，因亦請檢附上述資料向發卡銀行申請列入爭議款項。
(三)行政院金融監督管理委員會銀行局以及中華民國銀行商業同業公會全國聯合會同意於會後儘速通知各發卡銀行及收單銀行配合列入爭議款項之事宜。
二、消費性貸款部分:
(一)於96年7月1日後因加入亞力山大會員或購買亞力山大案而向遠東商業銀行申請消費性貸款的消費者，應備妥買賣或服務契約、購物證明或收據等憑證、商品或服務未獲提供證明文件，向遠東銀行提出停止繼續付款。
(二)對於96年7月1日前向遠東銀行消費性貸款加入亞力山大會員或購買相關商品的消費者，行政院消保會已請該行考慮從保障消費者權益方向，溯及既往處理停止繼續付款。如不能溯及既往，亦請該行提出優惠處理方案函覆本會。
三、其他事項:
(一)定型化契約部分:主管機關行政院體育委員會應下修健身中心定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項內有關履約保證的金額及時間。
(二)台北地方法院檢察署:已對於亞力山大負責人限制出境，並分案偵辦有無詐欺罪嫌。
(三)亞力山大資金流向:已請行政院金融監督管理委員會銀行局提供相關資金流向，協助本案偵辦調查。
(四)業界協助:已請行政院體育委員會洽詢有無其他業者承接之可能性。
行政院消保會消保官在本案發生時，昨(10)日即於第一時間與臺北市政府消保官前往亞力山大大直總公司，欲了解該公司如何解決消費者權益，惟亞力山大公司大門深鎖，行政院消保會對於亞力山大此舉，深表遺憾。此外，行政院消保會前處理佳姿健身中心事件時，佳姿除提供退換商品處理機制以外，並自願提供倉庫讓消保官檢查，惟本次亞力山大自事件發生後，行政院消保會多次連絡，都未予回應，連本日會議亦不出席，對此，行政院消保會亦深表遺憾。行政院消保會雖為監督協調機關，然自事件發生後，一直持續為消費者權益努力，在最短時間邀集相關機關與會研商如何保護消費者權益，卻被某一媒體報導行政院消保會與行政院體育委員會「互踢皮球」，對此不實之指控，對於行政院消保會消保官以及地方政府消保官之努力置之不顧，行政院消保會提出嚴厲抗議。
世界健身伸援手 願提供亞力山大會員免費1年會籍
2007/12/13 14:04
記者祝小珍／高雄報導
為了協助亞力山大會員所損失的會籍時間，世界健身World Gym提出願意提供免費一年會籍給予亞力山大會員，以及「零風險」月繳型優惠方案。
世界健身俱樂部台灣區總監柯約翰指出，即日起亞力山大會員可以帶有關會籍證明到最近的世界健身俱樂部辦理，亞力山大會員另可獲得兩堂免費的教練課程，幫助他們熟悉世界健身俱樂部的設施，目前已經有數名亞力山大會員接受此方案。
世界健身俱樂部共有八家分別位於台北一家，台中兩家，台南兩家，高雄兩家及台中瑜珈館，會籍包括了無限次使用世界健身俱樂部設施及有氧舞蹈課程，世界健身俱樂部網站www.worldgymtaiwan.com。
記者林仲仁／台中報導
為了協助亞力山大會員所損失的會籍時間，世界健身World Gym願意提供最多免費十二個月會籍予亞力山大會員，以及「零風險」月繳型優惠方案。在美國月繳型會籍方式是一個行業標準，但是在台灣只有少數俱樂部提供此種會籍方案。
世界健身俱樂部台灣區總監柯約翰說，我們為亞力山大會員感到惋惜，World Gym 願意盡最大的努力來幫助他們。亞力山大會員可以帶有關會籍證明到最近的世界健身俱樂部辦理，亞力山大會員另可獲得兩堂免費的教練課程來幫助他們熟悉世界健身俱樂部的設施。
柯總監說，我們希望會員來到世界健身俱樂部是感到自在舒服的，就像是在他們的新家一樣目前已經有數名亞力山大會員接受此方案。
亞力山大將開記者會 律師說明協商進度
2007/12/13 17:23:11
（中央社記者楊淑閔台北十三日電）亞力山大企業集團董事長唐雅君昨晚八時餘起與其他企業洽談接手經營簽約事宜，已決定今晚六時三十分在敦化北路國際大樓召開記者會，由律師出面說明雙方洽談協商進度。
外傳科技界或健身中心同行等可能接手亞力山大集團，外界評估，會員制消費營運必須要能吸收新會員才能繼續營運，對照此一特殊營收體質的難度，要完成接手企業的簽約，其實有其特殊難度。961213
申請退費 備妥必要文件
分期付款及刷卡付費 申請退款應準備文件
〔記者李靚慧、藍鈞達、梁世煌、劉志原、洪瑞琴／綜合報導〕亞力山大暫時停業案衍生出信用卡爭議款處理問題，銀行業者指出，目前均遵照國際發卡組織的規定辦理，有意透過爭議款規定保障權益的持卡人，最好儘早向銀行提出申請，避免作業時間不及影響自身權益。
然而各信用卡對爭議款申請規定不同，Visa卡國際組織規定，只要在特約商店倒閉或無法提供服務後一百廿天內都可提出退費申請，是三種信用卡組織中最寬鬆的。Mastercard國際組織除規定特約商店倒閉後一百廿天內就要提出退費申請，還必須要在刷卡日後五百四十天內再提出退費申請。ＪＣＢ國際組織更規定要在刷卡日後一百廿天內就必須提出退費申請。
也就是說，如果亞力山大健身中心會員持Mastercard卡，是在約一年半前就刷卡繳費，恐怕拿不回半毛錢；ＪＣＢ刷卡繳交會費的會員，如果是在一百廿天前就刷卡繳費，同樣無法申請退費。這些人就只能與現金繳交會費的消費者一樣，先登記債權，再向業者求償。
此外，因傳出部分銀行仍要求消費者付卡款，不配合止付，消基會董事長程仁宏表示，若銀行不配合，將來不排除對銀行採取法律行動。
包括中國信託、台北富邦、國泰世華、第一銀行等發卡銀行均指出，因目前亞力山大並未正式倒閉，僅是暫時停止營業，因此，銀行僅能受理刷卡民眾的資料登記，無法進行退款申請。中國信託呼籲該行的持卡人，盡速和該行的客服中心聯繫；第一銀行則成立了「亞力山大爭議款專案小組」。
台南市消保官傅然煇表示，關於消費性貸款，今年七月一日以後的消費者，應備妥買賣或服務契約、購物證明或收據等憑證、商品或服務未獲提供證明文件，向遠東銀行提出停止繼續付款。
( 2007-12-13 )
Translation? Rough gist? Anyone?
Me and my girlfriend lost our 1 1/2 year membership.
Annyone else want to join forces to get money back?
[quote=“Stian”]Me and my girlfriend lost our 1 1/2 year membership.
Annyone else want to join forces to get money back?[/quote]
Contact the Consumer Protection Commission. I understand they’ll be issuing a class action lawsuit next month.
[b]BP says
and…
[quote=“TNT”]So it appears she was using money from Alexander or was it membership money to try and finance something in China and the 95 million NT was lost (making it sound like it fell out of her pocket or something)
She is a pretty savvy business woman, so I doubt it is a simple as losing it to some unscrupulous Chinese business man[/quote]
IMO this is what has happened. Its not an uncommon scenario.
Drain the financial assets as much as possible. Move assets out of country. Close the doors in a sudden and unexpected manner. Use remaining physical assets - real estate, equipment, etc. to ‘satisfy’ any legal actions.
Of course this being Taiwan, there is the required ‘public pie say’ and tears for the media. And it being Taiwan, hell she’ll probably be back with another scam in 2 years…with full fawning media coverage and talk-show appearances.
Same story.
Supporting TC’s assessment, today ERA news presented a report on how well ALEXANDER is doing in China, showing that they are building 3 new branches there.
Furthermore, let’s remember that the woman announced 3 days after the closure that she already had buyers lined up for the most profitable gyms, while the less profitable would remain closed.
She must have made a bundle out of this swindle. Pity the consumers caught in the scam.
Is it still wrong to say that many Taiwanese/Chinese business people are crooks …?
Maybe it’s just a cultural difference into what is ethical business standards, or as someone diplomatically said, a difference of priority of values as to what is fair and honest commerce.
no, but it’s not wrong either to say many americans, europeans, japanese, koreans, south americans, southeast asians, are crooked. Nationality and ethnicity has nothing to do with crookedness, especially with large, high-level scams.
That’s true, so we can say for sure that many business people are in the game for ill gains and are crooks …
Good points, but I do not see the level of public acceptance and lack of legal penalties in other countries that exist here on the island.
Stian wrote:
[quote]Me and my girlfriend lost our 1 1/2 year membership.
Annyone else want to join forces to get money back?[/quote]
Chris wrote:
If anyone knows how/where to contact the Consumer Protection Commission and could post it I would appreciate it. I would at least like to go on record in case anything comes of it. I got screwed out of a 5 year membership with most of it left unused. At the time it seemed like a stable company with an unusually long track record in Taiwan. The worst part is now I have no place to exercise and already feel like shit physically after feeling like shit mentally and financially after it happened. I feel the worst for all the employees who got suddenly screwed out of jobs (and upcoming Chinese New Year bonuses, no coincidence). They have a lot of nice people working for them who didn’t deserve this.
This story has dropped out of the English media entirely; I’ve heard nothing about it since a week after it happened. Any updates anyone gets and could post here would be most appreciated.
In response to my own post for updates on this story, in today’s TT:
Later in the story it says:
Too good to be true? We’ll see.
Here’s a link to the story:
Goodness gracious, this really goes over the top:
[quote]The Consumers’ Foundation (消基會) vowed yesterday to file a lawsuit on behalf of consumers against the Alexander group (亞力山大集團) should the fitness company fail to allow members entry to retrieve their personal belongings within the next five days.
[color=red]The gym’s sudden closure last month came before members could collect their personal effects from the lockers[/color], which is completely unreasonable, foundation chairman Cheng Jen-hung (程仁宏) said.
“[color=red]Many members have important or valuable items in their lockers. Not only are consumers losing their gym privileges, they also have to suffer the frustration, inconvenience and worries over the security of their personal effects[/color],” Cheng told a press conference yesterday.
[/quote]
:fume: :raspberry: :loco:
More lovely bits in today’s Taipei Times. Really infuriating what these people got away with.
[quote]“Whether new owners will take over all existing membership responsibilities is out of our control,” Liu said.
[/quote]
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2008/01/08/2003396265
The nerve.
In related news, I’ve seen on TV that people and trainers from Alexander’s have been meeting at ex-CKS/now Democracy Whatever Hall to exercise. Other venues have been arranged, like school gyms. Trainers say they are out of work, but remain loyal to their students and like to be of service and exercise together or something along those lines.
[quote=“Dark Horse”]In
Later in the story it says:
Too good to be true? We’ll see.
[/quote]
that’s wonderful news.
Too good to be true?? yeah, this could’ve been done privately and without publicity.
I don’t know what Elea is…but with a huge percent of the people distrusting A’s, I don’t see how saving A’s could potentially give Elea a profit in the future…
Candy Tang Yajun was indicted for fraud today. Prosecutors want her to spend 5 and a half year in prison.
As to the latest on the takeover situation, the Taipei Times had this today:
taipeitimes.com/News/biz/arc … 2003397686
These kinds of frauds happen in the US all time as well. You just have to fool the banks. She did that with strong receivables from locked-in memberships.
Companies in the US with siphon money off and then file Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, because it is like a legal Pass to get out of losing leases on bad locations and fixed commitments. KMart did it. So did many airlines and Auto industry and super market chains over the years. Lets not forget the Hedge funds, Martha Stewart, Enron and the list goes on…
I guess its just a shame for the consumers. And yes, she did see it coming and has a nice fat retirement hidden away in Hong Kong somewhere… :s