All you guys who have been in the military

Discussion Open Forum
1

I don’t know if this should go here or not, so move if needs be

Just reading through the Jarhead thread and something struck me…

I notice that many of the folk here who have served in the army such as Comrade Stalin, JDS (whom I never knew had done a stint), Tainan Cowboy (probably others too) are all on the right of the political spectrum…

Do you guys think that being in the armed forces shaped your political beliefs in any way?

I’m in no way having a go… (although I may not believe some of what you write, I’m glad there are people around who still have their own beliefs. Apathy, after all, is one of the biggest diseases facing us today) I just know that political belief can come from socialisation, family upbringing, religion and all the rest of it…

So what say you?

2

I haven’t been in, in part because of the advice of my father, who was.

At one point, he was overseeing some young guys on a summer DOD program. They’d drill, do community service, ect. This was back in the early seventies, and a few of the kids didn’t want to put on the uniform: they did extra clean-up duties instead. At the end of the program, when it came time to hand out the paychecks for the program, one of the keeners piped up, “What the hell?! How come those slackers get paid the same? They didn’t put on the uniform and drill!”

Dad’s retort was, “What? Do you want to live in a society in which you HAVE TO wear a uniform?”

No doubt experience shapes outlook, but I wouldn’t expect military service to shape experience entirely in a particular direction. But that’s just me.

3

[quote=“Jaboney”]I haven’t been in, in part because of the advice of my father, who was.

At one point, he was overseeing some young guys on a summer DOD program. They’d drill, do community service, ect. This was back in the early seventies, and a few of the kids didn’t want to put on the uniform: they did extra clean-up duties instead. At the end of the program, when it came time to hand out the paychecks for the program, one of the keeners piped up, “What the hell?! How come those slackers get paid the same? They didn’t put on the uniform and drill!”

Dad’s retort was, “What? Do you want to live in a society in which you HAVE TO wear a uniform?”

No doubt experience shapes outlook, but I wouldn’t expect military service to shape experience entirely in a particular direction. But that’s just me.[/quote] :offtopic: :threadjacked:… :smiley:

Having said that…

Funk -
Good Q, and one that has come up on many occasions - not referring to Forumosa threads, bt in real life.
Personally I was raised in a rather conservative home life. Republican, I Like Ike, the Pop did 26 yrs in the US Navy before I came along, self-made man, didn’t like unions but never spoke bad of the workers who made up the union - just the fat cats at the top, so that was my yuteful influence.
The military didn’t really influence me one way or another. I gained a lot of real world perspective, but it didnt change my general beliefs.
I have always believed in personal freedom and not asking the gov’t to give you what you want. If you want something you earn it. I don’t believe in quotas - either racial, gender or economic. But I do believe that disctimination should be subject to legal sanction.
I personally know that the War of Drugs is a farce - I favor legalizing and taxing drugs - but I also think dope makes the weak subject to manipulation, removes their free will, makes people stupid and argumentative and funds terrorism around the world.
I think homosexuals should be allowed to have legally recognized ‘life partners’, but do not agree that it should be termed or recognized as a “marriage.” I am against Homosexual discrimination but also do not think that homosexuals should be a legally protected sub-group of the general populace.
I believe in freedom of religion, but am etting closer and closer to thinking that tax-breaks for churches should be re-examined and maybe even changed.

So I guess what it breaks down to in my particular case - my years (almost 11) in the military did not massively influence my position on the political spectrum - but it was a time of personal growth and maturation.
I’m a conservative on most issues, libertarian in some and even a liberal in a few selct areas. And I think thats really how most people are. Especially if they are not brain-washed by the latest BS du jour.

4

The thing that serving does is makes you realize who exactly does the work of the nation. Borders do actually need to be guarded; posts need to be manned; nations need to see the power of war games; and sadly, wars need to be fought.

I was telling Hobbes the other day how humans are still swinging in the trees. We talk the talk but can’t walk the walk. Yes, the world would be nice if people were nicer, but the raw fact is that there are demons in this world, and hugging them or blaming myself for their evil doesn’t sit well with me (demons being anyting from dictators to AIDS).

I was always a Conservative, a Reagan teen, preferred the books of Nixon to Carter. I was pretty much out of the scene during the second half of 1990s, ignored Clinton’s fling and the Republican domination of the Congress. 911 brought me back in though.

Did my military service predict my conservatism? No. But really, not a LOT of liberal people enlist…well, not as grunts, officers maybe.

In the same light, you might ask, are people who relocate their lives to Taiwan more Liberal?

5

Excellent question! And one that I’ve pondered before, as well. Might be best for another thread, though.

6

btw Funk, can we change “army” to “the military?”

I wasn’t in no Army. :raspberry:

:wink:

7

I was all so briefly in the Oz army, but I was a total commie when I left. I don’t see any reason why serving in the military would shape you either way. Well, okay, there certainly isn’t much room for a diehard liberal I grant you.

HG

8

[quote=“jdsmith”]I wasn’t in no Army. :raspberry:
:wink:[/quote]
Quite right…Mr. Smith cavorted with sailors and knows what “hot bunking” really means.
Topics totally alien to us Army folkeses.

“What is your 12th General Order, Marine?”

9

I’ve never been in the military, and never will. I am, and have always been, a pacifist.

However my grandfather served in WW2, a Scottish immigrant in the Australian army. I think he’d lived in Aust for about 10 years before he joined. He actually joined prior to WW2 - jobs were scarce, he was a musician (and ironically, for his generation, never smoked or touched alcohol), and the army had a good band.

But he was very left wing - not communist, but hell would freeze over before he’d vote for a right wing party in an election. He was very involved in unions, remarkably non-rascist and non-sexist for a person of his generation.

During the Vietnam war, his son (my uncle) was of drafting age, and my grandfather strongly advised my uncle to dodge the draft should he get called - my grandfather said he’d take an extra job, to allow my uncle the ability to hide from the military if they came a calling. My uncle’s number never came up, so this wasn’t ever tested.

It is to my grandfather that I owe all my pacifist ideals and beliefs. He saw war, and he didn’t think much of it. My mother once told me that when I was about 4 years old, I told her that I’d rather go to jail than join the military - a belief I still hold to this day.

No disrespect intended to those of you who served.

10

I resigned as a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy, and although I thoroughly enjoyed my experience I feel that in the end I became rather jaded. I used to be very liberal, but after my stint (including two operational deployments in Rwanda and Burundi - I was Intelligence so I was there with reconnaisance units - I saw some of the horror that people inflict on each other) my world view shifted somewhat. My naive hope in the better qualities of mankind came crumbling down around me and I was forced to see us at our worst.

I’m a firm believer in State organised military power (within a democratic environment - and subject to UN and international scrutiny) and completely opposed to the use of force by anyone outside of that spectrum. Uncontrolled, people too easily slide back towards barbarism.

At heart people are basically not good. That is the feeling I came away with, and I’ve seen nothing since to convince me otherwise. For me, the world is no longer the garden of roses it once was. Military power is a natural state of things and without it I believe the world would slide into anarchy. Sometimes a little evil is necessary to preserve the whole.

11

Yes, I agree. Being a grunt means doing things that were not meant to be done to other human beings. Training for war is fun. Being in one is not (not that I would know. I once got hit by a round bounced off a target, and it stung like hell, but other than that, aside from fights with drunk Navy slobs, not a bit of combat).

I do not think that armies and war are necessary evils. I think they are necessary. Period.

I just finished Jarhead, the book, and I feel, despite the philospoher grunts out there, killing on the battlefield will still be killing, and it will always be impossible to get over. It will never end.

That’s sad, but sadder for those countries that suck at war.

12

Yes, I agree. Being a grunt means doing things that were not meant to be done to other human beings. Training for war is fun. Being in one is not (not that I would know. I once got hit by a round bounced off a target, and it stung like hell, but other than that, aside from fights with drunk Navy slobs, not a bit of combat).

I do not think that armies and war are necessary evils. I think they are necessary. Period.

I just finished Jarhead, the book, and I feel, despite the philospoher grunts out there, killing on the battlefield will still be killing, and it will always be impossible to get over. It will never end.

That’s sad, but sadder for those countries that suck at war.[/quote]

Ouch.

bobepine

13

I grew up down South believing the Liberal Dream ™. I was one of 2 guys in my high school with long hair…(and in the 1960s this was just begging for trouble) Had a poster of Chairman Mao on the wall (I’d gotten it in Chinatown, NYC). In a box somewhere in SC I’ve still got copies of Soul on Ice, Steal This Book and Obsolete Communism. The Left-Wing Alternative.

Then I made the fatal mistake of meeting Debbie Bailey, going to Myrtle Beach with her, breaking up, drinking a gallon of [color=green]Green Goddam*[/color] and joining the US Army.

Reality hit me like a two by four. All of a sudden I realised I knew 0, zero, zip, nadda. The people I had supported in their “peoples war” were a bunch of murderous thugs who weren’t the least interested in listening to Hendrix and talking about the Man. After losing a number of friends I removed my head from my fourth point of contact and ever since, I’ve endeavoured to view the world from a slightly more realistic position.

The Army didn’t change my politics…it simply offered me the wonderful opportunity to see things they way they really are. The way most people don’t want shoved in their faces over the dinner table.

*Green Goddam ™ is a wonderful beverage made in an empty one gallon plastic milk jug. One can of MinuteMaid LimeAde with some water…followed by a bottle of Everclear Grain Alcohol. Shake the jug briskly and then pour into a Dixie Cup full of crushed ice. It’s guaranteed to remove all those sharp, nasty edges Reality tends to toss about the bathroom floor right when you’re stepping out of the shower.

internetwines.com/pa25994.html

14

Im not sure if serving in the military necessarily had an influence on my poltical views, but it certainly taught me about having the freedom to make my own conclusions on political issues despite attempts to force us into thinking ‘this is right, that is wrong’ etc.
After numerous years in the Australian Army I became a Republican and this is almost entirely due to my experiences/observations whilst a Soldier.
I think Im a little left, a little right…even in the middle on some issues.
Of course I’m just doing it to piss people off!!

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15

Good thread.

16

Agreed.

17

I’m a Persian Gulf veteran and am constantly being accused of being a liberal.
If you will recall Al Gore, John McCain (?) and Jim Kerry are also decorated Viet Nam veterans while the ultra conservative Bush Jr. could hardly be called much more than a draft dodger.

18

On the continuing saga of my nephew the almost Marine- a topic which is tangentially related to what you are talking about here. My nephew volunteered for Marine infantry as soon as he was eligible. I think his main influence in wanting to be military was the video game Call to Duty or something like that. After finishing up 3 months of basic, he put some muscle on and learned how to carry himself. He was kept busy 24/7 during basic, unlike JDS’s experience where he told me he was bored a lot. Maybe since the need for new soldiers is so pressing, they have accelerated things. He’s exhausted his official leave, but since it’s near the holidays and the second phase of his training doesn’t start until January, he’s at home with my brother. He goes out during the day in full Marine dress uniform to the area mall to walk around with some other Marines and try to snag some recruits. That’s sort of laughable to me since he’s never been deployed and wouldn’t know what he’s talking about. They also keep him busy at the area recruiting station doing some remodeling. I think they want to keep him in ‘Marine mode’ while he’s away from his base.

19

Really interesting threads…I’m one of the few males that hasn’t done at least some service in the military. (Though I did get a USAA Bank account - really truly a great institution - if you can get one, get one)

My grandparants were in WWII, one on each side, both in artillery, which brings some interesting perspective.

My uncles and father all served in Vietnam. Most were a bit non-mainstream military. One was a pacifist at Stanford, but felt it was immoral to skip the draft as he was in school as someone would have to go in his place so he volunteered. He was made a medic since he studied medicin and served on the line until they found out he was a pacifist - then they sent him to some hamlet. Today he works for the VA. My dad volunteered for the AF and finished first in his class at flight school so that he could choose his aircraft - a C-141 - which made brass a little less than happy. The last uncle was a hard-core graduate of Annapolis and flew A-7s until he died after ejecting after engine failure on take-off.

Even in my generation I have a cousin who recently ‘retired’ in his late 30’s from the SEALs after re-upping twice and two tours in SW Asia. We have no idea what he did, and he can’t / doesn’t say. More distantly of have some uncles & cousins once removed that currently serve or retired in the AF, Navy & Army.

What I can say that listening to them has shaped my politics a bit - possibly a bit more understanding of what the military can & cant do, and of the actual consequences of making certain policy decisions.

20

Really interesting thread. Some things are worth fighting for (doesn’t mean I’m/was for every single pantomime du jour Blair and Thatcher signed my country up for) and it’s good to know there are people who willing to volunteer and do it.