Along came a spider

I WAS a teacher at a kindergarten (legally mind you, as my contract was signed before the law was changed, though that’s niether here nor there now) up until yesterday afternoon. Let’s start with the events on Friday afternoon so you get the full picture.
Friday afternoon: I had a student in my classroom that excuses or explains all of his behaviour with the sentence “because I am bad” (yes, I realize this is not a full sentence but he is only 5 years old). I have tried and tried to tell him he is not bad, and if he has some reason for his actions, such as “A hit me so I hit A back”, that he should have refrained from stricking A and told the teacher; in essence that this is not make him innately bad. On Friday I thought maybe I could demonstrate some sort of situation where I could say to him, you must not be bad becuase because bad people like to do this, and you do not like it. So I put him in a small cupboard in the classroom, held open with my thumb in the way, and asked him “Do you like it in there?” To which he replied “No”, then I asked him if he wanted to come out and he said yes. He got out of the closet 5 to ten senconds after I asked him to enter it (which he did quite willinly with no physical help from myself, just sos you know I didn’t shove him in there). At this time I said “Well then, you can’t be bad because bad people like to hide in cupboards, and you did not like it. So are you bad?” To which he replied no, end of lesson. During this process, which all in all took less than five minutes, my amazing and oh-so helpful chinese co-teacher did her infamous disappearring act. At this time I think, I am tired of dealing with problms in the class unaided, and perhaps I will let her deal with all of them starting Monday.

Monday morning: My foreign manager comes into the class and says “I heard you put B in a closet on Friday. That’s bad. That’s worse than what the last teacher here got fired for.” Not thinking that I was just to be accused of locking a child in a closet for no reason, with no intentions, for an extended period of time, I began to explain.
“I don’t want to know what he did” says foreign manager. Okay. I cannot explain the situation properly, so what am I supposed to do? Apparently democracy hasn’t found it’s way into the kindergarten system in Taiwan.
Later, I proceed to inform him that I have decided to just let the co-teacher deal with the student problems from now on and I will focus on what I am actually paid to do, teach. “That’s not even the point” he says, or something to that effect. I think that is the point, and explian that I am given no help in the classroom, and perhaps if she stayed and spoke to me or voiced her concerns about why I was doing what I was doing (instead of leaving the classroom to tattle to the office) or just took care of these things herself, which I beleive is a part of her job, this situation. as it had become , could have been avioded. So he says, Okay, these things will definitly be discussed. Great I think, the matter is pretty much settled. I am still rather angry with my co-teacher for being utterly useless and not only not helping me, but getting me in trouble by misrepresenting facts. That afternoon I worked in the Anchiban, explained the situation to the other foreingn and chinese teachers I worked with and the Manager of the anchiban, a very helpful and nice taiwanese lady. She asked why I didn’t just tell my foreign manager what I had told her, and I said it’s because he doesn’t want to hear it. I also told her that if things continue the way they are with my co-teacher, I would have to think about finding a new job, because she was not doing her job and was jeopardizing mine.
Tuesday Moring:
I decide to take Anchiban managers advice and tell foriegn manager what actually happened on friday, that the cupboard wasn’t being used as a form of discipline. I make the mistake of talking about my problems with other foreign teachers, and get the quite commom and good advice to just ignore my chinese teacher and get my paycheck. I say I would love to but as she allows the children to break all the classroom rules the second I leave the room, and then I have to get them all back into a clam state for class, this is difficult to ignore . The situaion seems rather bleak for me, as I had a good relationship with all of the office staff and I had a good relationship with my students before this women started (about two months ago, I think) and she comes in and pulls the plug on all my hard work. However, I think this advice may work, because there is only 2 months left of the school year anyway, and it would be stupid to leave now.

Tuesday afternoon:
Last week, my boyfriend said he wanted to get his health check done because his contract would be up for negotiation soon. We thought, as my contract would be up in June for negotiation and a HEALTH CHECK LASTS THREE MONTHS, it would be wise to get them done at the same time (also the last time he had to get a needle, he turned white and almost passed out, so going alone was not the best option). I informed my foreign manager that morning that I might be back late after lunch. He didn’t inquire why, so I didn’t tell him. At the hospital, they asked for my schools phone number, WHICH I WILLINGLY GAVE. I even spelled out my name for the women because she was having difficulty reading it. If I was planning on getting a new job and leaving my shcool in the lurch by quitting, why would I stand by while the hospital telephoned them? Why would I give them the phone number in the first place?
When I arrived back at school (much later than I thought because the hospital didn’t open after lunch until 2:00). My foreign manager met me on the steps as my boyfriend drove away and said " That’s it, it’s over." “What’s over?” I said.
“To save you from quitting, you’re fired.”
“I wasn’t quitting!” I say, thinking this is some kind of joke.
“Whatever, I’ll pack up your stuff in a box and if you can’t catch your boyfriend now, you can go over to the anchiban and use the phone to him to come pick you up.”
“Is this just because of what happened on Friday?!” I ask
“No, it’s that and your behaviour yesterday in the Anchiban and everything.”
“Excuse me?”
“Shouting at everyone and now they are all (motions as if he’s seem something frightening, aka they are afaid of you)”
" But just yesterday the chinese english teacher was telling me how much everybody liked me, and -"
“Doesn’t matter” basically, just go away, I don’t want to discuss they fact that you got fired or why or what you are supposed to do now.
“Okay” so I go to the anchiban and ask the Manager if I can use her phone. She asks why and I tell her I have been fired. What?! she is just as surprised as I am, especially when I tell her that the anchiban, and peoples feelings about me there, are part of the reason. “No, she said, nobody said anything about you. I just knew you were not happy yesterday because we talked about it.” She asks one of the anchiban teachers how my class was yesterday, and she is told that we did some review and played a game for the rest of the time, the kids had a lot of fun. “I don’t know what your foreign manager is talking about” she says “if there are problems they must all be in the kindergarten, there are no problems here.”
Hmm. So I’m guessing what really happened is foreign manager thinks I don’t know that the hospital called during my health check and he has something “on me” that makes it a good enough reason to fire me, a pre-emptive strick so I can’t quit first.

In my contract it stipulates that the if the school is unhappy with the teachers performance, he/she will be given two weeks to “shape up”. Is this just being overlooked?
Can a school legally ignore a part of the contract if they feel it is more beneficial to them?
Is it possible that in lue of this two week “work it out” period, I should be payed two weeks for being fired on the spot with less then two days discussion or notice?
I think it is unfair that this stipulation has just been ignored or disregarded in this case. Does anyone know if it really meant anything to begin with?

welcome to taiwan. SSDD. name the school and manager so that others can be forewarned. can’t SOME foreign managers serve as great bridges of understanding for newbie teachers?

don’t sweat it. it’ll happen to everyone sooner or later.

At least you got a couple of extra days working after you put a kid in a cupboard. I would have fired you right on the spot. What on earth were you thinking? Co-teacher or no co-teacher (you should be able to handle a class without one) you do not do stuff like that.

[quote=“Elizabeth”]
Is it possible that in lue of this two week “work it out” period, I should be payed two weeks for being fired on the spot with less then two days discussion or notice?
I think it is unfair that this stipulation has just been ignored or disregarded in this case. Does anyone know if it really meant anything to begin with?[/quote]

You manager sounds a bit gutless. he shoudn’t have done it that way. However, I wouldn’t try to fight the “two weeks notice”. You were wrong and he handled the matter wrong…call it a draw.

I’ll tell you a little secret… school contracts don’t mean shit. :wink:

Unfortunatley, I was never advised of what was stupid or not stupid ways of demonstrating things to the children. The children in my class went into the cupboard while they were playing hide and seek and some student swent in when I asked them to show me what “in” meant during a lesson of “in”, “on”, “under” and “by”. Most of the disciplinary measures I have heard since I arrived here are from other foreign teachers, such as a teacher I know that has a large laundry sink in her classroom in which she puts her K1’s when they are bad because “they are too small to climb out”. The manager at the school knows about this and thinks it is funny. They are not put in and taken right back out, as in the cupboard incident. They are left there to cry. That teacher has not been fired. Another teacher I know actually hit a kid on the ass with the back of his hand and his co-teacher didn’t go running off to the authorities. Putting a kid in the cupboard for five seconds really didn’t seem that horrible and stupid knowing what other teachers do to their students that I do not!
If the schools are worried about ways in which a foreign teacher handles the classroom, they should give them ideas about what they can and cannot do. As for “I should be able to handle them [the children] myself”, I could before my new co-teacher taught them that rules were made to be broken and they don’t have to listen to their English teacher. And this is not an issue of whether I could or couldn’t, it was not my job. all of the other teachers at the school have co-teachers that handle the class while they are teaching, or at least try to help. My old co-teacher never left the room during lessons because she knew there were breaks before and after class, and she always aided me in helping with children who were fighting or not paying attention because IT WAS HER JOB TO DO SO. Are you a manager?, because I certainly wouldn’t want to work for you. Though I know from your other responses on the forum that that is your typical answer (for ex. why are you concerned when it’s all your fault anyway?) Your answer is very unhelpful and really unnecessary. Had I been told, you are being fired for putting a kid in the cupboard for five seconds because that was a bad judgement call on your part and the school doesn’t trust you, then what could I really say? This is not, as the school is saying, why I was fired. I realize now that contracts don’t mean shit, thank you.

No, I don’t have a typical answer. I have also done my share of harshing on schools. And before I answered your original post, I had no idea that putting kids in cupboards was common practice at your school. If you would have mentioned the hitting and the putting of small children into kitchen sinks being par for the course, then I wouldn’t have been so harsh. You were doing what everyone else was doing and you shouldn’t be punished for that.

As for co-teachers. When you are teaching you are lord, God, and master. Your will is not to be questioned. If you count on a co-teacher to help with discipline and she is not doing her part, then tell her to do so. Tell her you need her in the class. But there is something fundamentally wrong when a foreign teacher cannot discipline a class without a co-teacher. I am not saying it is your fault. Where is the support from the school? Have they taught you the skills to manage a class? Why does the school allow a co-teacher to leave the classroom?

Yes, I am a manager and you don’t have to worry about working for me. Though you might want to as I can show you how to conduct a class without a co-teacher. I can also show you all the things that you mentioned that your original school did not teach you. I can teach you to be a teacher, of that I am certain. If you would like to visit my school and see for yourself, please PM me and I would be happy to show you what I am talking about.

Anyways, our contracts state that a teacher is to be given two weeks notice before being let go. I have had to break that part of the contract several times. Once was when a teacher slapped a child on the face. Sorry, he was not going to be let back into one of my classrooms ever again.

Your manager handled it wrong. he should have stated very clearly as to why you were being let go. Firing someone is never easy and I have screwed up in that department more than once. Many times a school will promote a teacher to a higher position just because they have been there the longest or is a very good teacher…or sometimes they really know how to kiss arse :laughing: . I imagine your foreign manager was promoted because of one or more of these three things. That is a mistake. A good foreign manager is a good people person. I have lots of good teachers working for me. I have lots of teachers that have been working for me for a long time. Good employees and I am lucky to have them. But can they manage a school…I would have to say “No”. If I could find someone who could, then I would be outta here.

When you look for a new gig, you can base your decision on what the new school offers in terms of help and support that your old school did not.

Hi,

Are you in Taipei, or fairly nearby? I’ll be happy to go over with you and debate with them until they’re glassy-eyed, perhaps waving a copy of the Employment Act in front of them as well. :smiling_imp: Just my kind of thing, really.

PM me if you like!

Terry

[quote=“ironlady”]Hi,

Are you in Taipei, or fairly nearby? I’ll be happy to go over with you and debate with them until they’re glassy-eyed, perhaps waving a copy of the Employment Act in front of them as well. :smiling_imp: Just my kind of thing, really.

PM me if you like!

Terry[/quote]

Ironlady is one person you would want to have in your corner. :smiley:

But putting a kid in a cupboard, for whatever reason or intent, means case closed. Can’t fight this one.

I had informed my co-teacher that I would like her to remain in the classroom, which she would do for one class and then leave. I asked another teacher’s co-teacher to talk to her about responsibilties, which this women did for me TWICE to no avail. When I asked the co-teacher why she was allowing the children to break the classroom rules (for example running around their desks, jumping off their chairs, crawling under the tables) the second that I left the room, her response was that she did tell them but they didn’t listen to her, so she just let them proceed. I spoke with the office staff to try to get them to help (not my foreign manager, but her bosses) and they said they would talk to her. Nothing helped. This was not a situation of not being ablt the control my class. As soon I as stepped backed in the room the children would stop what they were doing as they knew it was wrong–but NOW it was only wrong when I was there, because the co-teacher let them do it. These are among the reasons that I was thinking of leaving, or just staying until my contract was complete and not renewing. Apparently at the school I was at you are not allowed to review your options, even if you have problems that the school will not deal with or does not care about. No, I was not trained, I was given a schedule and the books that I was to teach from and left on my own. I did not mind controlling the class myself until my co-teacher seemed to actively encourage bad behaviour from the children. Before she was hired the children and I were alone for 1-2 weeks while they were seeking a replacement for the old co-teacher (who moved away because her boyfriend was transferred) and I did not have any problems with the class. I even joked that if they wanted to give me extra pay for doing her work (getting food ready in bowls, recording daily lessons in the classroom, etc) they wouldn’t have to hire anyone at all. I guess the real problem is that if things aren’t running smoothly, the school just doesn’t want to handle it. Unfortunaltly, the foreign manager had given his notice and will be leaving in two weeks and had given me the impression that he just didn’t care what was happening in the school, and this impression was reinforced in talking to other teachers who had gone to him for help and been blown off.
Well, after reading your extended reply, I think I probably got out of a not-so-great school. I just wish I could have quit first.

Thanks Ironlady, but I do not want to fight them really, I just wanted to know my options if any as regards to my contract. Unfortunaltly for me I made a grevious error in judgement, one which people obviously think is just as bad as physcally striking a child. I don’t think, however, that there should be a clause in the contracts about teacher performance if the school does not abide by it. Or it should be more specific as to the types of situations it is referring to.
New Question: I was entitled to vacation of 4 days, will I lose this pay as well, even though there was only 2 months left on my contract? I worked at the school since the last week of August 2003.

Okay, now I understand your situation much better.

Yeah, Elizabeth…it sucks getting fired. I have been fired before also. I think most teachers here have been fired at some point or another.

Look at your experience as a positive one. Now you have a better understanding of what you need from a school.

When you find a potential new school, let us know and perhaps we can help you make your final decision.

Remember…it’s all good. :smiley:

thanks!

[quote=“Elizabeth”]Thanks Ironlady, but I do not want to fight them really, I just wanted to know my options if any as regards to my contract. Unfortunaltly for me I made a grevious error in judgement, one which people obviously think is just as bad as physcally striking a child. I don’t think, however, that there should be a clause in the contracts about teacher performance if the school does not abide by it. Or it should be more specific as to the types of situations it is referring to.
New Question: I was entitled to vacation of 4 days, will I lose this pay as well, even though there was only 2 months left on my contract? I worked at the school since the last week of August 2003.[/quote]

Elizabeth, your “grevious error in judgement” was not necesarily your fault. The school kinda let that thing go on.

If you want to play hardball about your vacation, you could always mention that “you are concerned about the treatment of the children and that the Social Services organization in your area might be interested about what is going on”. What you have mentioned about what goes on there is very serious (which is why I initially reacted the way I did).

I don’t really know if there is any point, as I have just been fired, I’m sure that they would argue that I am just being vindictive and I have no proof of what goes on. The chinese teachers threaten to cut off the children’s hands and tongues, threaten to pull their teeth out when they lie and one teacher even taped a childs eyes shut at nap time because he would not sleep. I once came back to class and found a student had slept with his hands bound together because the teacher said he would not stop touching other student’s blankets (hi, could you not just move him across the room?). I had thought , as this is the first school I worked for here full-time with co-teachers, that this was common practice?

This kind of stuff is not okay. This is, IMHO, child abuse.

You should be able to find a place that does not do this to children. It sounds as if your being let go is the best thing that could of happened to you…I’m just sad that the children are still there. :cry: Why aren’t the kids telling their parents about this?

If I worked there, I would have been fired long before you were…I would body slammed the person in charge and just fed it to him/her. :fume:

Elizabeth, it is a bummer being fired, but don’t sweat it, especially here. I am afraid loser foreign managers greatly outnumber the Durins Banes of the island. I would take Ironlady’s offer up if I were you. If there’s one person that can clean their clock, it is she.

[quote=“Elizabeth”]Thanks Ironlady, but I do not want to fight them really, I just wanted to know my options if any as regards to my contract. Unfortunaltly for me I made a grevious error in judgement, one which people obviously think is just as bad as physcally striking a child. I don’t think, however, that there should be a clause in the contracts about teacher performance if the school does not abide by it. Or it should be more specific as to the types of situations it is referring to.
New Question: I was entitled to vacation of 4 days, will I lose this pay as well, even though there was only 2 months left on my contract? I worked at the school since the last week of August 2003.[/quote]

Well, I don’t know about the cupboard issue, but it does not seem to me to be grounds for dismissal, particularly as it was one (and I assume the first) incident between you and the school.
It would be VERY interesting, though, to show up with copies of the Employment Law in English and Chinese and engage in a little creative debate with them. Usually if you show that you know the law, and know how to buy the special paper in the Post Office used for the official evidence letters that precede lawsuits, you will get a much more serious attitude for “negotiation” than you might otherwise.

This is involuntary dismissal, and I would bet that they would have a hard time defending it if push came to shove. Plus, they have to put out the energy to defend themselves if it goes to court – it’s a long process. And, of course, we will have the media out…in many cases, they might “find” it’s better to settle.

Depends on whether you want the hassle or not. But a visit to their headquarters and a quiet chat with the manager might be informative. The worst that can happen is that you will learn a few more (rude) Chinese words you didn’t know before…

This job is a write off. Depending on a Chinese co-teacher that you do not have a relationship with is a total mistake. If they don’t like you they will sabotage you. No discussion, no reason, they’ll just do it unless they feel you are more worthwhile having around than someone else. You didn’t exactly do the brightest of things though and the school sounds like a real hellhole for children. My school almost fired the principal for taping up a kid, the other co-teachers were actually genuinely shocked that she did so.

Write this one up as experience and get on with your life. I can vouch for DB being a good chap, though he could pass for an ogre on a bad day.

CYA
Okami

I can pass for an ogre on a good day also…I resemble one. :blush:

To Okami(spelling unsure sorry)I don’t want the job back, all things considered.

To Ironlady: yes this was the first incident I ever had with the school about doing something wrong, nothing was ever mentioned to me before, though I had had discussions before with my manager when I was unclear of something or felt that things could be done better. I was actually told that my class was one of the best in the school and had been complemented by other teachers on how well my students could speak English. Now I am unemployed, go figure.

I realize that what I did was wrong, but am angry that the precedent set at the school makes it very unclear of what they think is appropriate or inappropriate, and that some things are overlooked (such as the laundry tub and ass whack) that are clearly more damaging to the children then five seconds spent in a closet to show a student he wouldn’t like it there! I really did not think (should I stop there?) that the school would have a problem with this, nor that it was a no-no. It wasn’t even used as a disciplinary tactic! Had I worked for a school that actually told me what to do, or had a zero tolerance level, or had a co-teacher that did not teach 4 year olds that they are innately “bad”, this attempt to show the child he was not bad would probably have seemed like a “bad” idea. I digress, it was wrong.

I highly doubt any threats to the school would be a surprise, as the foreign manager has probably already been informed of these postings. The real problem is, how do you prove that abuse is occurring? Aside from taking pictures of students with their hands bound together (which I’m sure the co-teachers would not allow), it’s the foreign teachers word against the chinese teachers. The other teachers there would not be willing to lose their jobs (or similar to me thought that this was just typical Taiwanese “educational” behaviour) in trying to prove that the children may be recieving abuse. The school admin already knows and seems to encourage this sort of behaviour from the Chinese teachers. Christ, the teacher that taped a child’s eyes shut because he would not sleep is the foreign managers wife! He already told us in pretty certain terms that the foreign teachers must never do what the chinese teachers do; it is okay according to the school that the chinese teachers use whatever means they see fit, but the foreign teachers authroity fluctuates depending on their mood. Another unfortunate thing is that I work in a very small town and my manager once informed me that he has a lot of friends in this town and any time anything is said about him it gets back to him within 2 days, so I’m sure he could cause trouble in my search for work if he feels so inclined. I would seriously consider moving had I not just signed a lease for a new apartment! :s