The United States now has in custody a known terrorist who at this point in time they are refusing to honour requests for extradition from both Venezuela and Cuba.
Luis Posada Carriles is wanted for retrial for his involvement in the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airplane where all 73 people on board were killed. He escaped from prison disguised as a priest while waiting for his retrial.
In the 1990’s he was involved in organizing a number of hotel bombings in Havana. He has even bragged about this in a New York Times interview
In 2000 he was arrested in Panama for a plot to blow up a stadium full of students during a speech by Castro. (He was pardoned for this)
So here is a man who is clearly a terrorist, the U.S. has been asked to extradite the man which they still have not done. They did eventually arrest him for being in the US illegally but so far have refused to extradite him. In fact they are giving him a bail hearing in a few weeks.
Why is he not being extradited. Is it just that only Muslim terrorists count in Bush’s war on terrorism or is it the fact that Carriles was heavily involved with the CIA and the Iran Contra affair? It could also be that the only people he was trying to blow up were a bunch of Cubans so who cares anyway.
If Bush is honest about fighting terrorism whereever it rears it’s head then this man should be extradited. I don’t care that the US government doesnt like the Cuban or Venezeualan governments. This double standard is what gets people pissed off at America.
I hope this link works. You can also just google “National Security Archives”. That’s where these two links are from. Or just google Carriles name.
Sorry I can’t get the links to work and I have to go to work. I will try to fix it later or if you’re interested just google National Security Archives. The articles are there. Sorry about the links
I can certainly see your point of view, Gilgamesh. I’ve only read a few of the newspaper articles about him (and listened to one radio programe with a journalist who had interviewed him), but my impression is that this is a guy who deserves to go to jail for a long time. Whether that jail should be in Venezuela, or El Salvador, or Italy or whatever other country may have a claim is not all that important to me, although I suppose that Venezuela is among the less appealing options, given the poor track record that corrupt nation has with keeping their prisoners from escaping (not only did Posada himself escape, but Venezuela was just in the news yesterday for allowing a major drug lord to bribe his way out of their maximum security prison. :s ) But at the end of the day the extradition process should be followed, and he should be sent to wherever the treaties dictate.
Posada Carriles
As for all the melodrama for why the extradition is taking so long, “Why is he still here!?”, cries of double standards and so forth, it would seem that a little perspective might come in useful. Venezuela delivered their evidence to the US authorities on Friday the 10th. That’s 4 days ago (including the weekend). He was arrested less than a month ago. How long do these processes usually take? Obviously it varies, case-by-case. Just as a quick reference though, the in the case of Jose Maria Corredor (the drug lord from the link above that the US was trying to extradite from Venezuela), the timeline went like this:
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October 2004: Suspect arrested in Venezuela. US requests extradition.
-eight months pass-
June 2005: As the Venezuelan authorities continue to delay and raise (perfectly valid, for all I know) concerns about extraditing the suspect to the US – Corredor bribes his way out of Venezuela, and disappears. The result? He never gets extradited at all.
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In truth, one really can’t blame the Venezuelans for having taken 8 months without complying with the extradition (although I suppose they should take some blame for accepting a payment of drug money to let him go ). I don’t have all the figures, but I do notice that in the UK, at least, it takes an average of 18 months for an extradition to go through.
So you raise some good points, Gilgamesh. But given that the evidence documents for the extradition were only given to the US 4 days ago, I suppose that we can allow a little more time before we throw a fit (I’m talking about some of the hysterical articles I’ve read, not your post, btw) about double standards and not complying with treaty obligations etc.
I agree it hasn’t been that long. I have been holding off on posting this stuff for about three weeks because there was supposed to be a hearing on June 13th about what to do with Carriles and I wanted to wait until I could read what the decision was. This hearing was postponed so I decided to post it now.
Is this case a double standard? I agree we can wait a bit longer to see what the U.S. government decided to do with him before we make that decision. I just hope he stays in jail for a long time and is not let out on bail in two weeks.
I would be curious to know more about his relationship with the CIA and US government as some have suggested that he has. Did he in fact receive funding and training from the US or was there merely “contact.” I hear from people all the time that Osama was trained, supplied and funded by the CIA and now we are getting what we deserve but when the evidence is examined, we find that no, actually, the CIA funded and supplied the Muhajadin in their fight against the Soviet invasion and that there was no direct contact ever between Osama, the CIA and US government officials. Osama just happened to be fighting with the Muhajadin. I would be curious to see if this relationship between the US and this man is similarly distant, though I fully expect the press and leftwing chatterers to make much of it. I would, however, like to see more evidence on the subject.
Posada Carriles received paramilitary training under the CIA auspices in Guatemala in preparation for the Bay of Pigs. During this time he received training in explosives and use of small arms. Later he was in the U.S. army and ended up as a Second Liutenant and a Commanding Officer of a weapons platoon in a Rangers battalion. After this he was recruited by the CIA and at this time was deemed to be an explosives expert. He was used by the CIA as an informant on Cuban exile activities.
From this it seems that his contacts with the U.S. government and the CIA have been fairly well substantiated. All of the above information comes from a CIA document. There’s also a fairly substantial documented interview done by the FBI in regards to Posada’s involvement with the Iran Contra affair.
Again, I apologize for not being able to get that link working. I have tried a few times but to no avail. If you want to look at the documents go to the National Security Archives and you will find it there.
If anybody can get that link working I would appreciate it.
Word is that Luis Posada Carriles was a long time ‘contract’ player. He has always aligned the more radical anti-Castro/anti-leftist groups. He was never known for his stability. But he had many useful contacts. He was very useful during the anti-sandinista days.
I personally have no sympathy for this loose cannon. Let him spend the rest of his days in a 5 x 9 cell.
Okay, I see this man as a paid informant. The FBI also does this with regard to mafiosos but that does not make the FBI responsible for any of their previous or future actions.
Was, however, the US in any way involved in his decision to blow up that plane? Is there proof that he did blow up that plane? Is there any proof that the US funded or approved any of his activities if in fact he did said alleged activities.
Where are we at with this? I want to know first before I really understand or can accept that a. there are double standards involved or b. that this is a topic even worthy of discussion.
Any help that you can provide to help clear this up would be much appreciated.
[quote=“fred smith”]Where are we at with this? I want to know first before I really understand or can accept that a. there are double standards involved or b. that this is a topic even worthy of discussion.
[/quote]
That’s not the point at all. If he’s a terrorist then the U.S. should hand him over. Though, as others have pointed out, it’s still too early to get hysterical about it.
Understand but I have also read news accounts hinting at US funding and support for his activities. I just want to know if that is true or not. Naturally, it is all couched in terms of alleged and allegations but the main thrust of the argument sneaks past that as always doesn’t it? I appreciate your points but would like to know more about any connections in concrete terms as well. I appreciate your forebearance.
I havent heard much stuff about US funding or support although he definitely got some training from the US Army and the CIA but this was all quite some time ago. I only other thing that I saw was a memo showing that the CIA knew about the possibility of them blowing up that Cuban plane before it happened. There seems to be some question as to whether or not they warned anyone. This might just be a case of there’s a document that shows they knew about it but no document that shows they told anyone about it so people are not sure if they did.
I don’t think that some of his activities are still “alleged activities” I think he admitted to the Havana bombings in a NYT article but to be honest I havent read the actual article (to cheap to pay for it)
The main point I was making was that here is a terrorist in US custody so they should hand him over to the people who want him although I never actually thought about the short length of time (thanks Hobbes).
I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the US government and see what they do with Posada during his bail hearing. I would hate to see him walk out on bail.
[quote=“fred smith”]Okay, I see this man as a paid informant. The FBI also does this with regard to mafiosos but that does not make the FBI responsible for any of their previous or future actions.
Was, however, the US in any way involved in his decision to blow up that plane? Is there proof that he did blow up that plane? Is there any proof that the US funded or approved any of his activities if in fact he did said alleged activities.
Where are we at with this? I want to know first before I really understand or can accept that a. there are double standards involved or b. that this is a topic even worthy of discussion.
Any help that you can provide to help clear this up would be much appreciated.[/quote]
this may get us moving in a useful direction, from CNN (whatever that’s worth)
[quote]Posada received CIA training in explosives and sabotage at Fort Benning, Georgia, after helping to organize the failed Bay of Pigs operation to oust Castro in 1961.
He said he stopped working for the CIA in 1968 but in the 1980s helped the U.S.-backed secret Contra supply network in Central America. [/quote]
Some of you were looking for documentation regarding Posada’s involvement in various questionable activities (terrorist/covert). As someone mentioned, the NYT interviewed him years ago, and at that time he talked about his involvement in the Iran-Contra affair, I believe, as well as some other incriminating acts. I listened to an NPR broadcast this month where they interviewed the reporter who interviewed Posada - that’s convoluted isn’t it? Anyway, those are 2 places one could look for starters - I too don’t want to pay for transcripts - Anyone else?
[i]Washington D.C. May 18, 2005 - The National Security Archive today posted additional documents that show that the CIA had concrete advance intelligence, as early as June 1976, on plans by Cuban exile terrorist groups to bomb a Cubana airliner. The Archive also posted another document that shows that the FBI’s attache in Caracas had multiple contacts with one of the Venezuelans who placed the bomb on the plane, and provided him with a visa to the U.S. five days before the bombing, despite suspicions that he was engaged in terrorist activities at the direction of Luis Posada Carriles.
Both documents were featured last night on ABC Nightline’s program on Luis Posada Carriles, who was detained in Miami yesterday by Homeland Security.
In addition, the Archive posted the first report to Secretary of State Kissinger from the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research on the bombing of Cubana flight 455. The report noted that a CIA source had overheard Posada prior to the bombing in late September 1976 stating that, “We are going to hit a Cuban airliner.” This information was apparently not passed to the CIA until after the plane went down.
There is no indication in the declassified files that indicates that the CIA alerted Cuban government authorities to the terrorist threat against Cubana planes. Still classified CIA records indicate that the informant might actually have been Posada himself who at that time was in periodic contact with both CIA and FBI agents in Venezuela.[/i]
Well, I have patiently been waiting to see what would happen with this case. They have decided not to deport Carriles to Venezuela. Carriles had dropped his asylum case awhile back because he didnt want to cause problems for America and decided to rely on claiming that he would be tortured if he was sent to Venezuela. If he was going to be tortured then the US would not be able to deport him (unless you’re a Muslim I guess re:extraordinary renditions).
Anyway, the judge accepted the evidence that Posada would be tortured and decided to not deport him.
There is a bit of a problem with this though. There was only one witness for Posada who made the torture claim.
[quote]The only testimony offered to substantiate the Venezuelan torture claim came from one Joaqu
[quote=“Gilgamesh”]Well, I have patiently been waiting to see what would happen with this case. They have decided not to deport Carriles to Venezuela. Carriles had dropped his asylum case awhile back because he didnt want to cause problems for America and decided to rely on claiming that he would be tortured if he was sent to Venezuela. If he was going to be tortured then the US would not be able to deport him (unless you’re a Muslim I guess re:extraordinary renditions).
Anyway, the judge accepted the evidence that Posada would be tortured and decided to not deport him.
There is a bit of a problem with this though. There was only one witness for Posada who made the torture claim.
[quote]The only testimony offered to substantiate the Venezuelan torture claim came from one Joaqu
I was actually quite surprised that they didnt seem to put much effort into extraditing Posada. I (probably naively) thought that with all this talk from Bush about how we were going to fight terrorism where ever it might be found that there was no way they would not extradite this man.
But, I guess I was wrong. It seems that for Bush’s government, it’s not actually terrorism or it isnt “bad terrorism” if it’s directed at people the administration doesnt like.
I am not sure if they are going to let Posada walk away or what. I did read somewhere that the government was looking for a country that was willing to take him. I know Cuba and Venezuela will take him but I guess they don’t want to send him there
So, if another country does agree to take him does this mean Posada gets to go free? How can anyone take Bush’s comments on fighting terrorism seriously if they let this guy walk away? They went to war with Afghanistan because the Afghanistan government would not hand over bin Laden and here the American government is doing the same damn thing.
It seems that for Bush’s government, it’s not actually terrorism or it isnt “bad terrorism” if it’s directed at people the administration doesnt like. [/quote]
B-I-N-G-O. (Although I wouldn’t limit it to the current administration.) If we define terrorism as the use (real or threatened) of violence to achieve political ends, then “regime change” or “bringing democracry to wherever” is terrorism as well. “Terrorism” is a bogeyman that will let us kill whoever the fuck we want. Of course when someone suggests that that is analogous to the terrorist mindset, they can join that list as well. Watch your back.
To see real american hypocricy on this issue, one only has to look at what was formerly called the School of the Americas. Terrorism is just fine when they are doing our work, ask Osama.
I would edit that to “They said they went to war with Afghanistan…” The difference is subtle, but perhaps quite important.
[quote=“s.b.”]To see real American hypocricy on this issue, one only has to look at what was formerly called the School of the Americas. Terrorism is just fine when they are doing our work, ask Osama.[/quote]s.b. -
Betond the left-wing propaganda spewed by the indy-media and sucked up by gullible toadies, what precisely do you factually know about the School of the Americas?
C’mon, shoot me some facts? Dates of operation? Class composition? Countries sending attendee? Curriculum? Class structure? Staffing requirements? Requirements for attendance? Background od attendees? Post SOA actions? Education levels of attendees prior to selection for attendance at SOA? Composition of attendees?
C’mon s.b…show some brillance here…Lets see what you know about it?
And, what pray tell, are you doing mentioning OBL in the same sentence with the SOA?
Are you trying to somehow associate OBL with the SOA?
Do you actually think that anyone stupid enough to gobble that bait has enough sense to pour piss out of a boot much less post on an internet web site?
Come on, TainanCowboy, one of my classmates in grad school (Poli-Sci) was an American airforce officer, and while he thought that changes to the curriculum at the School of the Americas (now WHINSEC) made a difference, even he couldn’t stomach the place’s record.
). I don’t have all the figures, but I do notice that 
Did he wear a necklace of human ears too?