Strange. I thought that the EU was all about moral leadership. Not only does the US give tons more than the EU to fight AIDS but look at the figures for food aid…
[quote]The United States is the world’s largest food aid donor by far. In 2004, the United States provided $826,469,172
Are food donations the answer?
From the http://www.wfp.org/index.htm]UN World Food Program[quote]HIGH LEVELS OF FOOD INSECURITY IN IRAQ
WFP has carried out an unprecedented survey in Iraq which concludes that some 6.5 million people
Want some more?
[quote]The leaders
Twocs:
Nice try but when is the “25 percent of Iraqis face starvation” article from? Is it from December 2004? Please post the link. I challenge the factual basis for this. Perhaps, you were thinking of these types of disasters predicted by the ghoulish leftwing press PRIOR to the Iraq invasion?
[quote]Some 11 million people would be at immediate risk of starvation if the US proceeds with its war on Iraq, leading aid charities in the UK have warned. In a briefing for MPs in the House of Commons on March 12, Care International, Christian Aid and Save the Children warned that military action could push 60 percent of Iraqis to the brink of starvation. Almost half of Iraq
Okay, from the outset it is clear that there is something suspicious about your figures there Fred. The warning sign is that your post implies that the US is doing something positive or commendable. With such a clearly absurd conclusion, all we are left with is trying to count the ways in which you must wrong. I see several others have already gotten a jump start on the process
An interesting point was brought up about money. Food is helpful, but what about funding to bring about self-sufficiency? The US may lead here as well but I have no figures. Fred trashes money going into education, but here he praises it going into giving food. In the past, US and other foreign money has often gone into the wrong (usually, a corrupt government’s) hands when it could have been more beneficial to fund NGO’s. While the large amount of aid is definitely to our government’s credit, it is important to find ways of preventing future famines by teaching responsible farming, enabling irrigation programs, teaching sustainable development, etc. which Western governments have begun to realize. Does Europe have anything like the Peace Corps? It’s worthwhile to take a look at charity programs that really work. That way people can donate money to worthy causes instead of funding ‘Christianofascist’ missionaries who just want to brainwash the world.
Also Twocs:
You may be confused because the Washington Post printed an article that said that 7.7 percent of Iraqi children were malnourished and this was DOUBLE the figure from before the war of 4 percent. Not such a big difference to warrant “double” in my opinion, but the problem is that the Washington Post quotes the IAIS which on its home page quotes the Washington Post article but nowhere can any new report on malnutrition be found. ERGO which came first the chicken or the egg? I mean if the Washington Post has access to this report, why isn’t it available from the very agency that it was reportedly reported to have come from? Hmmm? Strange?
Nice effort Hobbes, but you forgot the most obvious problem with the data:
The EU gives $187,102,068
The UK, which is a member of the EU gives:$109,247,050
Now is that UK donation part of the EU donation or is it on top of the EU donation? If it is on top then that makes $296,349,118. Now we need to findout how much is given by the other members of the EU not through the EU route.
Trouble is that the article doesn’t really think through what it is saying in it’s haste to do a fred.
Personally I think the I’m more generous than you argument is a bit daft, but what do I know.
As far as helping the developing world, both the EU and the US would achieve an awful lot more if they stopped subsidising their farmers so that other poor nations are unable to trade themselves out of poverty. Let the free market rip!
I have done your homework for you but here check out this site…
which supplies this information…
[quote]Food availability is deemed sufficient. PDS reform would imply a shift from state-subsidized imports towards greater reliance on commercial food imports and domestic production. Self-sufficiency through domestic production, however, is unlikely in the short or medium term. The role of private commercial imports is likely to expand, but a number of initiatives would need to be implemented, including, among others, improvement of the infrastructure and the banking system.
My lord you talk some shit. The biggest providers of health care in the world are religious organisations, and you tend to find a lot more religious people prepared to leave the comfy environments of the developed world and devote their life to the poor. Yes they sometimes have a religious agenda, but believe me the medicine is what comes first, and certainly they don’t decide who gets treatment based on religious beliefs. If people like what they see they join the congregation. If not, then nobody is forcing them, and they don’t suffer any descrimination.
Why are you so anti-religion?
Butcher Boy wrote:
[quote]Nice effort Hobbes, but you forgot the most obvious problem with the data:
The EU gives $187,102,068
The UK, which is a member of the EU gives:$109,247,050
Now is that UK donation part of the EU donation or is it on top of the EU donation? If it is on top then that makes $296,349,118. Now we need to findout how much is given by the other members of the EU not through the EU route.
Trouble is that the article doesn’t really think through what it is saying in it’s haste to do a fred. [/quote]
So if the US donates US$850 million which is more than half and Japan gives X and the UK is fourth, we can subtract these amounts and still realize that the EU gives far less than the US. I will try to get the full report.
Also not included were substantial donations made by corporations and individuals. Needless to say the most prominent included a number of American corporations and individuals, which would then raise this amount of American aid even higher.
Distorting the facts again, Fred, eh?
At the Earth summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992, twenty-two members of the world
Yep I had a look for some specific country by country etc list but came up blank. Probably need to rethink my search tactics! There just seems to be something a little weird going on with those figures they used.
[quote=“butcher boy”]Nice effort Hobbes, but you forgot the most obvious problem with the data:
The EU gives $187,102,068
The UK, which is a member of the EU gives:$109,247,050
Now is that UK donation part of the EU donation or is it on top of the EU donation? If it is on top then that makes $296,349,118. Now we need to findout how much is given by the other members of the EU not through the EU route. [/quote]
Seems like quite a fair point. I haven’t seen the raw numbers the author was using, but absent any evidence that the UK was excluded from the EU total for some reason, I’d say a very fine point indeed.
Okay, we’re way beyond “fair point” now. This is “buy the man a drink” territory. :bravo:
Mother Theresa:
Count on you to be right there to slam your country first. Congratulations you get the Kneepad of the Day award.
Your figures have already be discounted in another thread. There is no distortion of statistics. The US government still despite these GDP figures gives the LARGEST amount by far to world food aid. Please dispute this if you can.
The US government also gives the largest amount to AIDS 15 billion compared with measly amounts by the other G8 members.
AND most US aid money is given by private individuals, corporations and charities and in these figures the US does substantially better when government AND private funding are added together. It puts the US at the absolute top in terms of absolute dollars and one of the top in terms of PER CAPITA which your figures do not show because they only count GOVT money. Nice try but really you are such a disappointment. Try to make a new year’s resolution to say one good thing about the US and Americans each and every day. We have enough irrational detractors who just bash and bash away. Try to do something to stop the hatred of Americans by pointing how justifiably just how much they do give and they give A LOT.
Please go back to the other thread where all this info was already given. If you are not willing to do so, I will do it for you. You are therefore the one distorting statistics by not pointing out that most US aid is private not govt. Shameless.
Of course it does, Fred, christ you mean that the whole world has not yet woken up to the fact that the US is the number one country in the world.
Well bless my soul, perhaps some of us want a different kind of world.
And since you started on it, you like to ensure that both state and private donations are covered for the US figures, have you been so diligent in ensuring that the other being used for compariosn are equally as counted, i doubt it though, after all that might mean the US of A is not such a great country and ******** like you try to make out.
Oh, and before you start fred, criticism of the US is not USbashing, and if you really cant see the difference, then i suggest you take your fingers off the keyboard, and refrain from replying, or at least get one of your other nom de plumes to do it for you.
[Post edited by moderator]
Traveller:
Blah blah blah
Anyway, here’s some more…
[quote]The United States is the world leader in humanitarian assistance and food aid, providing over $2.5 billion in 2001.
The United States is the top importer of goods from developing countries, importing $449 billion in 2001, eight times the amount of total Official Development Assistance (ODA) to developing countries from all donors.
The United States is the greatest source of private capital to developing countries, averaging $36 billion annually between 1997 and 2000.
The United States leads the world in charitable donations to developing countries – $4 billion in 2000.
At $11 billion, the U.S. is the top provider of Official Development Assistance (ODA) in 2001. This ODA is expected to increase substantially from 2001 to 2003 in key sectors
– HIV/AIDS – 54%
– Basic Education
Fred, I don’t have time to rebut your point about how Bill Gate’s generosity supposedly makes up for the US government’s stinginess, but…
Just three days ago you expressly promised not to counter my points with personal insults, and you already failed, so . . .
[Pofanity/insult removed by moderator.]
Dear Me Dear Me:
MT does seem to be angry about something haha
Anyway, the statistics above are all for GOVT. Ergo if we still give the most your GDP per capita statistics are half the picture and given that we give so much to private charities…
[quote]Gifts to the top 400 charities accounted for nearly one-fifth of the $241 billion given to all of the nation
FRed, why quoting such old sources, or is it that the current stats dont support your view of the world 