American-Chinese rapper making it bigtime in USA

Arts & Sciences Culture & History
61

[quote=“sandman”]Wait a minute. Is Public Enemy classed as hip hop? I always thought it was rap. I really like Public Enemy, Ice-T, Eek A Mouse and all those guys, but its not what I think of when someone mentions hip hop.
And Tupac, but only after I saw him playing bass with Tim Roth in Gridlock’d.
I remember reading some jazz critic years ago in Downbeat who opined that most of the jazz greats of the 40s and 50s would probably be doing rap if they were young Turks today (about 15 years ago), but today’s hip hop is mostly just bland forgettable pop and a dress style IMO.
And they plagiarize – sorry, “sample” – other people’s music. If they’re so great, why don’t they use their own music?[/quote]
You already admitted that this was a troll, but I’ll bite anyway. For all those who don’t know, rap is a subset of hip hop, which found its genesis in bronx djs(Kool Herc was the first) who looped “break” beats(the drum breakdowns which people preferred to dance to) from old funk and soul records. Hence “break” dancing. MCing followed shortly afterwards as a way for the dj to get the people at a party hyped up, and it wasn’t long before specialized MCs began to appear.

Sampling as plagiarism(aside from the fact that we’re dealing with art, not academia): maybe when puffy does it, but there’s plenty of room for originality/interpretation in loop-based sampling. Once again, if this is in doubt, try it. There’s a reason there’s only one dj premier. And yes, sampling is a reinterpretation of the original work if done well at all. The real significance of sampling is that it allows a producer to recontextualize existing works and create something new out of them. Additionally, sampling allows people to create sounds that are impossible with traditional instruments. It’s no different conceptually than making a collage or photoshopping an image.

Finally, I don’t think anybody can listen to these songs and deny that there’s SOMETHING to sampling:
asisphonics.net/versaluni.rm
asisphonics.net/shapelesscircles.rm
These are both made from the same samples, yet they’re two very different tracks.

62

[quote]sorry turn tables are not an istrument, I never saw a class offered in it at the Royal Conservatory of Music
I for one think that it’s more difficult to play a guitar than spin records.[/quote]

You can manipulate a turntable to produce various sounds,change notes and tempos therefore it is a type of instrument. And just because one finds it more difficult to play the guitar than it is to spin records doesn’t make the turntables any less of the instrument that it is. And there are DJ classes and workshops you can join in almost ANY big city you got to on this planet.The Royal Conservatory of Music may not be the be-all,end-all of the incredible thing you and I call “music”.

63

The proof is in the audio. I highly doubt anybody who listens to the mp3 I linked to will continue to think that it’s easy to scratch well.

64

But it’s not in the same league as other forms of musical expression.

65

Once again: try it. There is no better or worse, just different.

66

Once again: try it. There is no better or worse, just different.[/quote]

kinda like nuprin is to aspirin: little, yellow, different.

67

[quote]Now, samples can be used creatively, in a mix’n’match montage style that some bands do - a snippet of this, a snippet of that, bam bam bam! That kind of thing is cool. But lazily sampling an old disco groove and building your entire song off of that while you rap over it…well, that stuff just sucks, it has zero creativity.
[/quote]

It may not be your cup of tea, but that does not make it bad music, or lacking in creativity. I find taking an old disco groove, and building an entire song out of it while you rap over it to be very good and very creative when done well. A new creation is formed out of an old beat.

There’s nothing truly original in music. Every note has been played before. Every chord has been played before. Whether you actually play an instrument or sample/use a drum machine/use a computer is irrelevant to creativity (although of course playing an instrument is a skill in itself, and there are some types of creativity that can only come by playing an instrument. It’s like the difference between writing a novel by hand or using a word processor. Or would you deny the creativity of a ‘writer’ who was illiterate, but managed to dictate a brilliant novel? Or how about directing a film? Some directors can use all the technical eqipment used in filmmaking and have a detailed knowledge of the whole process. Others have a vision and work down from that, leaving the technical aspects to their crew. Their skill comes form their vision and being able to use the tools abvailable (in this case cast and crew) to create.

Personally, I’m not a huge admirer of technical virtuosity when it comes to music. There is something I really like about some forms of music such as rap or techno where some of the barriers (the abilty to play an instrument) are removed, and anybody with creative ability can make some great music. It just annoys me when people say “that’s not music/there’s nothing creative about that - they’re not playing instruments”.

Brian

68

Spoken like a true fan of music. Shhh about the wig and you forgot about the bandana around the knee as well.

69

Will you still be listening to hip hop when you’re older? I mean maybe it’s ok when you’re in the 18-30 range but what then? Are you gonna be listening to hip hop when you’re 60? Probably not. As you mature your tastes will change.

70

Argh, Mods WHY did you spit my post into the flame bin??? I was being reasonably compared to the blatant ignorance that Mr. Grasshoper here keeps showing. Just read his latest post:

I am seriously beginning to doubt whether Mr. Grasshopper here is really mentally retarded or is he just acting the part (I have a nagging suspicion it’s the former). To answer his question: no, I will probably not listen to hip-hop when I am 60. Does that make hip-hop “bad” music? No. Does that make it “good” music then? No, too. It’s absolutely IRRELAVENT! “As you mature your tastes will change.”
Um, no shit Sherlock, but just what exactly is your point (if you even have one)? Yes, as you mature your taste in music, alcohol, entertainment, cars, EVERYTHING will change. So what? Like I already stated music genres, like most other things, have a target demographic, just because you “grow out” of that demographic group does not make it “bad”. Most of us stop listening to nursery rhymes past the age of five, if your absurd logic holds true, then are nursery rhymes categorized as “bad” or even “lesser” music? Just stupid. Your logical flaw is that you assume that as you mature your tastes become better. Bullshit. A 60 year old man will naturally have different tastes from a 20 year old youngster, does that mean the 60 year old’s taste will be better? You make the call.
Bottomline: musical genres have target demographics - age, maturity, skills, instrumental talent, composition difficulty have nothing to do with whether or it is “good” or “bad”.

Lich

71

I’m already older. Not int he 18-30 range. I didn’t listen to hip hop when I was younger. Now I do. I guess my tastes matured. :wink:

Brian

72

By the time we’re 60, there will be new forms of popular music that don’t exist now, that we don’t know about now.
Speaking for myself, I hope I will be listening to whatever is new, fashionable or not.

Back in the early 70s, I liked Bowie and the Eagles. Didn’t like the punk revolution - with the exception of the Stranglers - but loved what came after, like the Police and Joe Jackson. Later I was into “world” music and hiphop, now into dance music, unless it’s too electronic and shapeless.
I just want to keep evolving and discover new things, not get stuck with the Beatles or Frank Sinatra or whoever, though I can appreciate music from decades ago as well as brandnew stuff. It’s not about good or bad, it
's about personal taste.

73

Most forms of music I hear on the radio are just recyclings. It’s very hard to create any genuinely new music, perhaps impossible, as nearly every form of expression has been tried out already. There are only so many ways you can batch chords together. Electronica and techno or whatever the trendy name for it this week is just '70s disco with shinier technology. The guitar-bass-drums rock format is probably played out. The pop-punk bands on the radio today, they’re playing music that started when I was in diapers. Rap was fresh and original when it first emerged but it’s been 20 years since that happened. There hasn’t been a whole lot of innovation in the genre in the past decade or so.

But then again I think that mandating that art must be “revolutionary” is a quirk of the 20th century that isn’t necessary. There’s a lot to be said for carrying on the tradition.

74

:shock:

Company Flow, KRS-One, anything DJs Krush or Shadow touch, Anti-pop Consortium, Prince Paul, MC Hammer, Treacherous Three, Kool Keith, LL Cool J, Grandmaster Flash, Doug E. Fresh, Fresh Prince (when he was still with Jazzy Jeff), Anticon, Sir Mix-a-lot, Wu Tang, Blackalicious, Dr Dre and other West Coast rappers, Cypress Hill, A Tribe Called Quest, Blood Of Abraham, Black Star, Roots…

Regardless of what people think about rap or hip hop (and any discussion over whose music is ‘better’ is seriously like talking to your parents), it’s unfair and uninformed to say there hasn’t been any innovation.

75

Exactly how is someone like MC Hammer, who lifted whole old Rick James and Prince songs and rapped new words over them, remotely innovative?

Some of those other guys are good, but half of them are from the '80s and I said, “in the past decade”. Of course Grandmaster Flash was innovative, he was there at the dawn of time! Plus “good” doesn’t necessarily = innovative. Hey, I liked some of LL Cool J and Cypress Hill and even the preachy KRS-One, but all they had was good songs, not musically innovative sounds.

Like I said, original doesn’t equal good and vice versa. In fact most of the time people who reinvent the wheel, their ideas are so out there I can barely listen to them - John Cage, Captain Beefheart, Schoenberg…truly innovative music is like needles on chalkboard for most people.

76

For all of you who dismiss Heavy Metal as just loud and “stupid” music look at the lyrics for Paschendale by Iron Maiden.

Paschendale
[Smith/Harris]

In a foreign field he lay
Lonely soldier, unknown grave
On his dying words he prays
Tell the world of Paschendale

Relive all that he’s been through
Last communion of his soul
Rust your bullets with his tears
Let me tell you 'bout his years

Laying low in a blood filled trench
Kill tim 'til my very own death
On my face I can feel the falling rain
Never see my friends again

In the smoke, in the mud and lead
Smell the fear and the feeling of dread
Soon be time to go over the wall
Rapid fire and the end of us all

Whistles, shouts and more gun fire
Lifeless bodies hang on barbed wire
Battlefield nothing but a bloody tomb
Be reunited with my dead friends soon

Many soldiers eighteen years
Drown in mud, no more tears
Surely a war no-one can win
Killing time about to begin

Home, far away
From the war, a chance to live again
Home, far away
But the war, no chance to live again

The bodies of ours and our foes
The sea of death it overflows
In no man’s land, God only knows
Into jaws of death we go

Crucified as if on a cross
Allied troops they mourn their loss
German war propaganda machine
Such before has never been seen

Swear I heard the angels cry
Pray to god no more may die
So that people know the truth
Tell the tale of Paschendale

Cruelty has a human heart
Every man does play his part
Terror of the men we kill
The human heart is hungry still

I stand my ground for the very last time
Gun is ready as I stand in line
Nervous wait for the whistle to blow
Rush of blood and over we go

Blood is falling like the rain
Its crimson cloak unveils again
The sound of guns can’t hide their shame
And so we die on Paschendale

Dodging shrapnel and barbed wire
Running straight at the cannon fire
Running blind as I hold my breath
Say a prayer symphony of death

As we charge the enemy lines
A burst of fire and we go down
I choke a cry but no-one hears
Fell the blood go down my throat

Home, far away
From the war, a chance to live again
Home, far away
But the war, no chance to live again

See my spirit on the wind
Across the lines, beyond the hill
Friend and foe will meet again
Those who died at Paschendale

-Pretty intelligent stuff huh.

77

Wilfred Owen and Siegfried Sassoon did it better.

78

How about Lieut. Col John Macrae MD 6th Canadian Field Ambulance

79

Anyway, you want “intelligent lyrics” with a battle theme? Look no further.

My my, at waterloo napoleon did surrender
Oh yeah, and I have met my destiny in quite a similar way
The history book on the shelf
Is always repeating itself

Waterloo - I was defeated, you won the war
Waterloo - promise to love you for ever more
Waterloo - couldn

80

[quote=“sandman”]Plus, Abba’s stage routines were far superior to those of Iron Maiden. And they dressed better and had cuter smiles.[/quote]But did they have revolving guitars, and songs about Stonehenge?