[quote=“Sat TV”]Yes Americans cultural misunderstandings led to 911.
[/quote]
Bullshit.
Bullshit.[/quote]
You beat me to it.
Perhaps it’s Americans’ cultural misunderstandings that have kept Taiwan a de facto independent country, rather than it getting swallowed up decades ago. I love it when Taiwanese, Koreans, Europeans, etc. complain about American foreign policy like this.
Bullshit.[/quote]
Bin Laden and othe religious clerics and Imams interpreted the Prophet Muhammad as banning the “permanent presence of infidels in Arabia”.[13] In 1996, Bin Laden issued a fatwa, calling for American troops to get out of Saudi Arabia.
Right, so parking your military in the holy lands wasn’t a misunderstanding then? You just bullied others around and got a clip over the head for it. Only a mnor matter in the scheme of things anyway. Look whats gone on since 911 with the US war mongering going on in other countries based on FAKE intelligence like WMD’s in Iraq, when you should have been in Iran.
Iranians have played the Americans for fools over their nuclear program. Probably lead to another war.
Are they teaching American English at Iraqi and Afghanistani Kindies yet. Should be a good market for english teachers to head off on.
Sat TV: People like Osama Bin laden and his ilk don’t/didn’t need a reason to attack America. They just want(ed) an excuse. These fuckwits and their ilk have been rubbing EVERYONE the wrong way since the seventh century.
You mean ever since some westerners on a religious crusade who thought warring was a good policy invaded the middle east. 
Why was it that Moses lead the Israelites for 40 years to the only place in the middle east that has no oil? If god was so great how did Moses fuck it up so badly.
Sat TV: Which crusades are you talking about? Those during the Middle Ages? Which year was the First Crusade? 1096. Which year did Muslims invade Spain? 711. Which year did Muslims invade France? 732. This doesn’t include all of the Christian regions of North Africa, the Levant, etc. that were conquered by Muslims long before 1096. Islam started this fight (and not just with the Christian West). Learn some world history.
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_crusade[/wikipedia]
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Conquest_of_Iberia[/wikipedia]
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_tours[/wikipedia]
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests[/wikipedia]
I don’t care what the book of Exodus supposedly says. I don’t believe that stuff.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Sat TV: Which crusades are you talking about? Those during the Middle Ages? Which year was the First Crusade? 1096. Which year did Muslims invade Spain? 711. Which year did Muslims invade France? 732. This doesn’t include all of the Christian regions of North Africa, the Levant, etc. that were conquered by Muslims long before 1096. Islam started this fight (and not just with the Christian West). Learn some world history.
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_crusade[/wikipedia]
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Conquest_of_Iberia[/wikipedia]
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_tours[/wikipedia]
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests[/wikipedia]
I don’t care what the book of Exodus supposedly says. I don’t believe that stuff.[/quote]
Don’t you get it GIT, all crusades are necessary. France is always getting invaded and surrendering. Moses invaded first.
This works very well for me. 
I am sure that if one day China invaded Taiwan, their would be a certain poster crying for US involvement, despite their “cultural misunderstandings”. As long as they go nowhere near a kindy.
Anyone justifying 911 needs their head examined.
Maybe the Rape of Nanjing was a “cultural misunderstanding”? I would call it barbaric murder, though. Hmm, maybe cultural misunderstanding is more politically correct??
Who said it was justified? Was the US second invasion of Iraq justified with its falls claims?
If China invades Taiwan I won’t be the one crying about it. The US won’t get involved we all know that. As Mao told Nixon, China can wait a hundred years, time is not an issue.
Hey modulators…hardy har fucking har… 
ahh…this thread won’t stay on one topic anyway… 
[quote]Are they teaching American English at Iraqi and Afghanistani Kindies yet. Should be a good market for english teachers to
head off
on.[/quote]
I see what you did there… 
mate!
[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote]Are they teaching American English at Iraqi and Afghanistani Kindies yet. Should be a good market for english teachers to
head off
on.[/quote]
I see what you did there… mate![/quote]
Slip of the tongue, so to speak. 
Who said it was justified? Was the US second invasion of Iraq justified with its falls claims?
If China invades Taiwan I won’t be the one crying about it. The US won’t get involved we all know that. As Mao told Nixon, China can wait a hundred years, time is not an issue.[/quote]
:roflmao: If it wasn’t for the US, the Chinese would not have to wait 100 seconds. Taiwan would have been taken back years ago. My god, if it was not for the US the Taiwanese military would have zero defensive capability.
I do not agree with current US foreign policy (they should have sorted out Iran) and I am not American, but you can be 100% sure that they have protected Taiwan for the last half century. :raspberry:
As GIT mentioned earlier, Europe would be part of the Third Reich (minus Jews, Gypseys, Slavs, Russians, Gays, Communists etc) and Taiwan would be part of the glorious Japanese empire along with the rest of China (less a few million “comfort women” and another 20 to 100 million Chinese used for target practice of course) and the far east.
You should be kissing some US butt :America: 
What do I care about where the US wants to have it’s interest in meddling around the world. I don’t care if CHina invades, cause America is never going to have an incident and invade China or defend Taiwan. I don’t need to be kissing anybodies butt, especially not a smelly American one. Being part of Japan wouldn’t have been such a bad idea either.
What do I care about where the US wants to have it’s interest in meddling around the world. I don’t care if CHina invades, cause America is never going to have an incident and invade China or defend Taiwan. I don’t need to be kissing anybodies butt, especially not a smelly American one. Being part of Japan wouldn’t have been such a bad idea either. [/quote]
Good luck with being part of Japan.
At that point in time anyone of Chinese origin was seen as “sub human” by the militaristic/nationalist Japanese. Your head would have probably ended up on a spike
You should study some history. Reverting to emotional outbursts does not do a debate/discussion justice.
I don’t know. Maybe some American dude stole one of your girlfriends with his large hotdog?
What do I care about where the US wants to have it’s interest in meddling around the world. I don’t care if CHina invades, cause America is never going to have an incident and invade China or defend Taiwan. I don’t need to be kissing anybodies butt, especially not a smelly American one. Being part of Japan wouldn’t have been such a bad idea either. [/quote]
Good luck with being part of Japan.
At that point in time anyone of Chinese origin was seen as “sub human” by the militaristic/nationalist Japanese. Your head would have probably ended up on a spike
[/quote]
Chinese and Japanese were also seen as sub human by a lot of Caucasians at that time - short-sighted monkey-people who couldn’t fight for shit. Pure racism and propaganda. It’s about time Japan were allowed to power up militarily. They have turned into a bunch of hello kitty pansies and it would help maintain a balance of power in this region.
[quote]If it wasn’t for the US, the Chinese would not have to wait 100 seconds. Taiwan would have been taken back years ago. My god, if it was not for the US the Taiwanese military would have zero defensive capability.
I do not agree with current US foreign policy (they should have sorted out Iran) and I am not American, but you can be 100% sure that they have protected Taiwan for the last half century.
[/quote]
Taiwan taken back by who? Taiwan was a Japanese colonial outpost and for approximately two years was its own entity after the war until CKS and his cronies arrived, and they arrived not with the intention of invading to take Taiwan to make it a part of China, but with the intention of going back to fight a war on Chinese soil. Taking Taiwan was not an issue at that time. The ROC - or the province of Taiwan - occurred as a side-issue to other events which were happening in Asia at the time.
Aside from this, if the US was really intent on defending Taiwan, it would still have arrangements for a military presence here, instead of transferring recognition to China and withdrawing troops. Now instead we get rubbish weaponry and a half arsed promise which doesn’t really fit the needs of the possible type of warfare that Taiwan could face in the future.
The US would also not hesitate to recognise Taiwan as an independent nation. Protection my arse.
While I don’t agree with the sentiment of the original topic, I hate it when Yanks and supporters thereof cart out this old chestnut every time there is an argument about how the US ‘saved the world.’ Completely disrespectful to the vast majority of soldiers and citizens worldwide who died who weren’t American and took part since before the beginning.
However, I quite like the idea of Taiwan still being part of Japan. At least civility would ensue.
[quote]If it wasn’t for the US, the Chinese would not have to wait 100 seconds. Taiwan would have been taken back years ago. My god, if it was not for the US the Taiwanese military would have zero defensive capability.
I do not agree with current US foreign policy (they should have sorted out Iran) and I am not American, but you can be 100% sure that they have protected Taiwan for the last half century.
[/quote]
I’m not sure that your history is correct there. maybe. But, I doubt it. The Nationalists arrived in Taiwan shortly after the end of WWII for the purpose of occupying Taiwan for the allies. They certainly were not in Taiwan at that time with an intention to retake the mainland, as they wouldn’t lose it until 1949.
Its foolish to argue that the Nationalists (ROC) held Taiwan without the backing of the US, and later, without the protection of the US. You also seem to completely discount the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty, that was signed in 1954 and ratified in 1955 and remained in force until January 1980. And if the TRA is so useless, then why has it given the Chinese fits for over 30 years?
You have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to the US. But, history speaks for itself, and Taiwan is free today and can thank the US for keeping it at least that way.
[quote=“Super Hans”]…if the US was really intent on defending Taiwan, it would still have arrangements for a military presence here, instead of transferring recognition to China and withdrawing troops. Now instead we get rubbish weaponry and a half arsed promise which doesn’t really fit the needs of the possible type of warfare that Taiwan could face in the future.
The US would also not hesitate to recognise Taiwan as an independent nation. Protection my arse.[/quote]
Your arse, indeed.
Taiwan is free and de facto independent, isn’t it? Is that because of anything the Brits have done? How 'bout the French? The Japanese? Is it because the Chinese want the Taiwanese to stay free and independent from China? Gosh, whatever could it be?
Well, in any event, the US cannot do anything about Taiwan’s apparent current unwillingness to keep itself free and independent.
Tigerman, Taiwan was going to be abandoned in 1950 by the Americans. It was only the Korean war and the subsequent cold war that kept Taiwan safe as a useful buffer to China. So while yes, Taiwan’s defense was guaranteed by the US, it was not exactly an altruistic gesture. And US support also ensured the survival of the authoritarian Chiang regime, and ensured the deaths and torture of tens of thousands of Taiwanese who wanted nothing more than US style values of human rights on Taiwan. In essence, the US defense of Taiwan for most of the decades that that defense was in place, was in support of a highly repressive government completely at odds with US values.
Furthermore, as everyone knows, the more democratic Taiwan becomes, the more it asserts its rights to the values of your country, the more of a headache it is for the US.
Not exactly something to gloat about in my opinion.