No.
I’m not sure I’m following here — are you saying money-seeking as in greedy? What I more often observe is penny-pinching — like when ordering pancakes at McDonald’s and getting asked to fork over $5 for an extra trickle of syrup. Or paying $120 (US 4 bucks) for another refill on a little shot of unexceptional tea. Like I said about editing, they don’t invest a few bucks for the long-term, for the maximal comfort or satisfaction of the customer, who is King in the West. Such a principle gets mocked every day in Taiwan, where the Chinese word for restaurant owner sums it up: laoban — the lord, the manor…“The Boss.” And that’s how they act. The Boss often knows better than you how you like your food prepared.
Jotham, have you ever been out with a Taiwanese woman (by which I mean over 25 years old at least)? Did you encounter bad service while out together? How did she respond?
Seriously what you are pedaling as your experiences bear almost no reflection on my own. My Taiwanese ex would eat the deliverer of shitty service alive, and so too would most of the Taiwanese people I know.
And mate, here’s a tip, if you’re looking for quality service, you simply aint going to find it supping Mackie D’s. You need to get out some more. Stop your own penny pinching and live some. You might be pleasantly surprised.
HG
I’m not sure I’m following here—are you saying money-seeking as in greedy? What I more often observe is penny-pinching—like when I order pancakes at McDonald’s and get asked to fork over $5 for another trickle of syrup. Or when I pay $120 (US 4 bucks) for unexceptional tea and have to pay all over for a refill. Like I said about editing, they don’t invest a few bucks for the long-term, for the maximal comfort or satisfaction of the customer, who is King in the West. That principle gets mocked every day in Taiwan, where the Chinese word for restaurant owner says it all: laoban—the lord, the manor…“The Boss.” And they act that way. The Boss often know better than you how you like your food prepared.[/quote]
thats why Taiwanese develop favorite restaurants very quickly and avoid those where they didnt have a good time or obtained the value they sought.
edit: And and i totally agree with HGC. Taiwanese dont usually suffer fools gladly.
Yes, you have a point. If you frequent a place often and the owner knows you, they’ll do anything for you — like any stranger would be treated in the West. Connections and favoritism play an important role in Taiwan, even in dinery.
I’m not talking about fine, expensive eateries, which serve you well anywhere worldwide. I purposely talked about common services, which is what most businesses engage in and survive by, and where international differences are starkest. I’m talking about general economics and business savvy.
But McDonalds?
HG
Yes, you have a point. If you frequent a place often and the owner knows you, they’ll do anything for you—like any stranger would be treated in the West. Connections and favoritism play an important role in Taiwan, even in dinery.[/quote]
Asians in general, not just Taiwanese, pretty much sum you up within seconds of meeting you and treat you accordingly. In Japan they even exchange name cards and then decide who should bow lower to show deference to the other. The TAiwanese social hiearchy is quite developed and body language and other very subtle ques are much the order of the day in person to person interaction. And Taiwanese are quite thin skinned and easily insulted. And they are not about to let others insult them lightly either and will fight back. Its ok to bump into a Taiwanese person in the street and not say sorry but a scornful glance could bring them over to challenge you.
Its all about guanxi and who you know and who you are in TAiwan society. Its very much a who you are society. What you look like who you are as well. Thats why generally Taiwanese are careful to dress in way to give you clues as to who they are.
There is no mistaking a TAiwanese gangster for example. Or a boss person, etc. They dont exchange name cards as readily as Japanese , except in a business environment. And therefore other physical ques and mannerisms are very much employed.
Where else do they have pancakes? And how else to compare West and East, since you know that at an American McDonald’s, if you ask for an extra syrup, they give you three.
I can think of three or four places off the top of my head. And that’s just in my own little corner of Taipei.
Plus, if it’s poor service without a smile you’re after, I suggest Paris, the French Riviera or large swathes of the UK. They make the surliest Taiwanese waitress look like the brightest ray of sunshine.
Of course, in America I hear the staff exhort you to have a nice day and tell you their first names and all, for which you’re expected to pay an additional 20% on your bill or whatever. I know which stereotype I prefer.
[quote=“sandman”]Plus, if it’s poor service without a smile you’re after, I suggest Paris, the French Riviera or large swathes of the UK. They make the surliest Taiwanese waitress look like the brightest ray of sunshine.
Of course, in America I hear the staff exhort you to have a nice day and tell you their first names and all, for which you’re expected to pay an additional 20% on your bill or whatever. I know which stereotype I prefer.[/quote]
Oh, I never thought about that. So “Customer Is King” is more American than Western?
Well, my point about pancakes is that they are rare. Yeah, I can find them at other places, I know, but it just isn’t as catchy or generic as just saying McDonald’s. Gosh, lighten up — I guess a lot of hatred out there for McDonald’s; I forgot about that. It’s so tangential to my point anyhow.
[quote=“sandman”]Plus, if it’s poor service without a smile you’re after, I suggest Paris, the French Riviera or large swathes of the UK. They make the surliest Taiwanese waitress look like the brightest ray of sunshine.
Of course, in America I hear the staff exhort you to have a nice day and tell you their first names and all, for which you’re expected to pay an additional 20% on your bill or whatever. I know which stereotype I prefer.[/quote]
Taiwanese are generally intolerant of bad service and punish it brutally.
HG
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
Taiwanese are generally intolerant of bad service and punish it brutally.
HG[/quote]
agreed although only in a resturaunt setting… piss poor service from the customer service representatives of (off the top of my head) cable companies, banks, car dealers, store clerks, utilities companies, police, cell phone companies, government offices, etc. etc. is almost gleefully accepted with the very utmost in “mei-ban-fa-ist” deference by the Taiwanese…
[quote=“plasmatron”][quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
Taiwanese are generally intolerant of bad service and punish it brutally.
HG[/quote]
agreed although only in a resturaunt setting… piss poor service from the customer service representatives of (off the top of my head) cable companies, banks, car dealers, store clerks, utilities companies, police, cell phone companies, government offices, etc. etc. is almost gleefully accepted with the very utmost in “mei-ban-fa-ist” deference by the Taiwanese…[/quote]
True, yet this is becoming less and less true.
[quote=“jdsmith”]
True, yet this is becoming less and less true.[/quote]
… perhaps in Taipei…
[quote=“plasmatron”][quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
Taiwanese are generally intolerant of bad service and punish it brutally.
HG[/quote]
agreed although only in a resturaunt setting… piss poor service from the customer service representatives of (off the top of my head) cable companies, banks, car dealers, store clerks, utilities companies, police, cell phone companies, government offices, etc. etc. is almost gleefully accepted with the very utmost in “mei-ban-fa-ist” deference by the Taiwanese…[/quote]
Hee hee. Call a cop in the UK for a non-life threatening reason and let us know when they show up. It’s OK, I’ll be online for the next few weeks. Or an ambulance. Cable guys? Three weeks. That OK? Gubmint officers? Who the hell are they? You’ll not find out in the UK, that’s for sure, unless its two dozen social workers with a warrant on your doorstep telling you there’s no way you can get those pikeys off your land unless you want to go to jail – so what if they’re using your back green as their latrine? Pikeys need to take a shit just like the rest of us. You’re not some kind of damn dirty racist, are you? ARE YOU? The list goes on. Taiwan’s a veritable paradise, I tell ya!
“Now Mr Sandman…what can I get for you this morning…huh…Sweety!”
I’m aware of Korean and Japanese intricacies concerning relationships. They’re even woven into the language and verb structures. I wasn’t aware though of any Taiwanese parallel; if so, surely it pales in comparison. Could you give me examples? — I’m curious.
Actually, my inner circle of friends, especially girlfriends, are the last place I would look to for clues on Taiwanese culture: they're sometimes the opposite of what should be a representative slice of the population. They're much more like me and Western than their confreres: independent, lively, feisty, and unafraid to upset the apple cart. They'll even inveigh against their own culture; they understand it — they don't take it. They're also somewhat rare. When thinking about a culture, I try not to focus on my more intimate friends, but rather on a mosaic of the hundreds of people that have crossed my path.
One thing I've noticed is that people who can speak English are affected by English culture, and they can more fluidly interact with English native speakers. People who don't speak English are almost like a whole different society or culture of people; they more likely typify without frill what Taiwanese think. I make it a point to seek out these kinds of friends to fully encounter the culture — which I did in Korea.
Of course people go to good businesses and avoid bad ones. That's a universal principle; one that competition's based on. There's lamentable service in the US and in Taiwan. I'm just saying it's easier to find it in Taiwan, especially when competition isn't eagerly indulged in and where the laoban is laoban instead of the customer.
No they’re not. They’re common. Most everyone on this website has friends like that. I know they’re the only kind of people me and my wife hang around with. In fact, the vast majority of people I know even casually are more like that than the lazy stereotype you project.