Another rant

Discussion Open Forum
1

Having a bad day.

I’m feeling pessimistic and anticipate that by the time I get home tonight someone will have posted some apologistic crap in my rant in the Living in Taiwan forum. So here’s a pre-emptive attack on them too:

Why do (some) people feel it’s necessary to defend the actions or attitudes of others when there is no benefit to be had from doing so? The worst is when they ask your opinion of something and then feel the need to make excuses.

For instance someone asks why I’m single, and I respond that I just haven’t met anyone in Taiwan I have much in common with. No criticism, just an explanation for something they have asked about. A statement of fact. They ask for an example, and I cite the obvious one of me preferring to go to the beach than traipse around central Taipei looking for things to buy. Or singing. In a room. With fruit. Very quickly it boils down to I like X and most people here like Y.

And then people start explaining to me why most people like Y. I don’t really give a toss why most Taiwanese think white skin is good and sunshine is bad. I don’t want to argue about it, I don’t really want to discuss it. I’m not even complaining. I’m quite happy with the way I am, and quite accepting of the way others are. The net result, however, is a difference of opinion which an awful lot of people can’t seem to accept.

The correct response would be to discuss my feelings about being single, but most people get stuck on the reasons why and feel the need to educate me. Presumably they feel that once I have had things explained I will somehow magically change my mind about what I like and the ‘problem’ they see will go away.

This is not a Taiwanese phenomenon. It’s global, and I’m just waiting for someone to turn around and tell me that (to use the example in my ranty thread) Taiwanese people don’t care if they buy envelopes that don’t fit and don’t expect their toilet to actually flush. I don’t believe that this is true, but that’s not the point. Whether or not someone else wants white skin and annoyingly sized envelopes, I have made my own choices. Can’t people just nod and say “yeah, you do see things differently,” instead of trying to lecture me about why some people disagree with me. I know they disagree. Very often I know why they disagree as well. Explaining why they disagree won’t change the fact that all those letters I carefully folded into three are exactly one millimetre too big for the envelope, so what’s the point?

The envelopes are too small. There is a turd floating in circles in my toilet. Explaining that other people don’t get annoyed about these things, which is why they have been tolerated long enough to become a problem for me, doesn’t make the problem go away. Explaining why a suntan is not fashionable in Taiwan won’t make me suddenly get a hard on at the thought of cute useless women with pasty white skin and squeaky voices. Why tell me this stuff?

2

Here’s another one:

Someone asked me what could be done to make Taiwan a more popular destination for western tourists. The obvious answer is that Taiwan compete with China, Thailand, Japan etc for their respective specialities, but I settled for “clean up the beaches.”

The response was an explanation of why Taiwanese, in the opinion of the other person, don’t worry about litter. Who cares what their reasons are? If they don’t care enough to keep the place clean then it won’t be attractive, and that’s all there is to it. You could follow up with questions about why it’s important, or a discussion about how to change attitudes, but justifying the current state of affairs doesn’t do any good. Why bother? It drives me mad.

3

Sorry. My weekly ‘buffet English’ class tonight.

Anyone want to defend a bunch of apathetic disinterested young adults who expect me to do all the work?

It’s their culture.
They’re a product of their education system.
blah blah blah

4

Good points ALL Loretta.

I’m still wondering who 1st suggested that the A4 sized sheet of paper made more sense than an 81/2 x 11 sheet.
Thats been a bugger to me my whole time here.

And I also like suntanned better than pasty white.

5

Delete.

Having some ideas that are not good enough to post yet.

6

Why on EARTH would anyone ask that? I’d have thought it was patently obvious.

7

Why on EARTH would anyone ask that? I’d have thought it was patently obvious.[/quote]

I am often to be asked with this annoying question by Taiwanese, too.

It is a bias toward single people.

My ladies and I are single and happy; and we know that marriage and family are the greatest myths in human history.

8

“Clean up the beaches” would be a good start. It doesn’t even matter whether it’s Taiwanese who litter – there’s all sorts of flotsam and jetsam that end up on beaches from god knows where (China? Containers knocked off ships going through typhoons? Who gives a crap?). Good resorts around the world clean up their beaches, so why wouldn’t Taiwanese think to do the same? Why would anybody defend the failure to clean up? Why ask a question only to refuse to hear the answer?

I was recently reading one of those Mma Ramotswe books – the ones written by Alexander McCall Smith that take place in Botswana – and feel the people in that country make no sense either. In his world, everybody spends 5 paragraphs of exposition between their spoken sentences thinking about the old days or making observations on what humanity does. And yet somebody could do the same for Taiwan.

Here’s a section from a Ramotswe book re-written for Taiwan:

[quote]She looked out the window while the foreigner tried to answer her question in perfectly adequate if accented Mandarin. She tried to concentrate, but the thought of her father had taken her to Taipei, and to the memories that the town had for her; of afternoons in the summer when nothing happened but the heat and when it seemed that nothing could ever have happened; when there was time to sit in front of one’s house in the evening and watch the mosquitos flying around just outside the range of the Crocodile-brand incense coils and the sky to the West fill with swathes of brown and red as the sun went down over the factories; when it seemed that you would be fifteen years old for ever and would always be here in Taipei. And you were not to know then what the world would bring; that the life you imagined for yourself elsewhere might not be as good as the life you already had. Not that this was the case with Mrs. Chen’s life, which had on the whole been a happy one; but for many it was true – those quiet days in their hometown would prove to be the best time for them.

Mrs. Chen’s thoughts were interrupted by the foreigner. “I said that I am an English teacher,” said the foreigner. “Ying-wen laoshi.”

"Well, I can’t help you if you don’t have your… " Mrs. Chen scanned her memory for a document the foreigner would likely not have brought, “original copies of your university degrees notarized and legalized with an accompanying statement from your original university and signed by professors who taught the courses indicated on your transcripts.” Mrs. Chen looked out the window. There was something wrong with this foreigner; she could sense it. Mostly she could sense that the foreigner was still there in the office, making noises that sounded remarkably like Mandarin. Had she listened, she would have discerned that it was fluent Mandarin, but instead she spent a calm several minutes drinking oolong tea and thinking about the old days in Taiwan. After a suitable interlude, she spoke again.

“I … don’t … understand … English,” she said, waving frantically, palm outwards. The foreigner then continued to make noises that were, to a person actually listening, Chinese. So while the foreigner continued to talk about his own selfish concerns, Mrs. Chen deliberately thought of the positive aspects of this strange visitor. And there were many. He looked very neat in appearance. And of course he might be educated, although one could never be sure of anything anybody ever says until they have a document that has been notarized and legalized because so many foreigners and even, to tell the truth, locals, could not be trusted to be honest in their documents. But being neat in appearance was a very good sign, was it not? A man who did that must have very fine qualities somewhere, even if he was likely to be coming to Taiwan to smoke marijuana and other similar hard drugs with Canadians and other westerners. And yet there was still something wrong, and she could not drive the suspicion from her mind. This foreigner would have an ulterior motive. Money? Sex? Those were the obvious ones, but was there something more to it than that? [/quote]

9

Why on EARTH would anyone ask that? I’d have thought it was patently obvious.[/quote]
You are single then they ask you this one question.
But if you are married,they may ask"
When do you have a baby?
How many kids do you want to have?
When you have a baby then they may ask:
How’s his study?
Which buxiban he /she will go?
How many hours he/she spend on his study?
Why your kids are shorter than other kids?
Blah blah…

10

Why on EARTH would anyone ask that? I’d have thought it was patently obvious.[/quote]
You are single then they ask you this one question.
But if you are married,they may ask"
When do you have a baby?
How many kids do you want to have?
When you have a baby then they may ask:
How’s his study?
Which buxiban he /she will go?
How many hours he/she spend on his study?
Why your kids are shorter than other kids?
Blah blah…[/quote]
No, you misunderstand. I was merely commenting on Loretta’s unfortunate sartorial leanings, unsavoury behaviour traits and of course, the unfortunate incident involving his face and the back end of a bus.

11

And we said hi at Fulong, then 20 minutes later, he said, “Hey Jd, how’re ya doing?”

I said, “We just saw each other.”

“Really?” said he.

“You SPOKE to me,” said I.

I mean really, who can put up with that? :slight_smile:

12

[quote=“jdsmith”]And we said hi at Fulong, then 20 minutes later, he said, “Hey Jd, how’re ya doing?”

I said, “We just saw each other.”

“Really?” said he.

“You SPOKE to me,” said I.

I mean really, who can put up with that? :slight_smile:[/quote]

:blush: I wish he was joking.

I think you fantasized the first encounter.

But anyway, nobody is defending this behaviour. People make mistakes The best thing to do is admit them. Admitting your own failings is difficult but good for you. Admitting the failings of others is a good beginning. If someone came up to you after and said “Don’t blame Loretta, she is a bit doolally after spending the night doing ‘placement tests’ for the official forumosans studmuffin calendar” would you care? Would it change the fact that you had just been slighted? (Or had hallucinated an encounter!)

I remember being in a restaurant in India one time. The waiter didn;t have a pen or anything to write on and fucked up the orders from the 20 or so people in our party. The next night we went back, and someone brought a pad and pen. These were presented to the waiter, who used them to good effect. (ie he didn’t have a literacy/education problem) The following night we returned again, but the waiter had ‘lost’ the pad and pen.

I couldn’t help remarking, as I looked at my rice wondering if I would get any curry, that this was an unsatisfactory state of affairs. The person next to me immediately retaliated that it “wasn’t the waiter’s fault!” As if I care. Does it have to be anyone’s fault? Can’t we just agree that it isn’t good enough and get on with figuring out ways of dealing with the lack of good food, instead of getting into heated arguments about educational systems and the legacy of British imperialism, or whatever else your pet issue is?

Also, why is there no Bacardi in my house? Who can I blame? Where’s the booze-wallah?

13

In your defense, I had a hat and sunglasses on and we haven’t really seen uch of each other recently, and two, you didn’t have your sunglasses on the first time.

But really I’m just making this up.

14

So you rant about being single in Taiwan. How about being single in your own country.

For once I would love to go out to a resturant and not be served enough food that would feed an African nation. I would love to be able to go grocery shopping and not have to pick btw two lesser evils: family-sized crap or buy one and get one free. I would like to be able to shop for things at a reasonable price, without having to add waste to the enviroment (and my expanding waist :fume:).

I would like to be able to walk down the street and not be harrassed daily for a fag. Dammit! If you can give me a $1 for ONE cigarette, save it and when you get 7 then buy 20.

I would like to be able to get on the bus and get somewhere without waiting for 30 mins.

I would like to be able to get on the train, ride in peace without having to listen to Sheneqa cuss out her momma/baby’s daddy/friend/lover at 10,000 mhz. I would love to ride in peace without having to hear about Jane’s failing diet at 8 a.m.

Wheew :blush: sorry loretta, but I had to get off some how, being single and all.

15

[quote=“Loretta”]Here’s another one:

Someone asked me what could be done to make Taiwan a more popular destination for western tourists. The obvious answer is that Taiwan compete with China, Thailand, Japan etc for their respective specialities, but I settled for “clean up the beaches.”

The response was an explanation of why Taiwanese, in the opinion of the other person, don’t worry about litter. Who cares what their reasons are? If they don’t care enough to keep the place clean then it won’t be attractive, and that’s all there is to it. You could follow up with questions about why it’s important, or a discussion about how to change attitudes, but justifying the current state of affairs doesn’t do any good. Why bother? It drives me mad.[/quote]

Chinese culture is one of excuses. This is why its necessary to micromanage staff here.

Nobody will admit guilt or responsibility. Whilst I hesitate to call it a cultural failing, I can’t see any positives from it other than preventing loss of face.

Its one of the most frustrating aspects of life here.

16

[quote=“Namahottie”]So you rant about being single in Taiwan.

Wheew :blush: sorry loretta, but I had to get off some how, being single and all.[/quote]

You missed the point. I’m not ranting about being single. I’m ranting because when I explain the reason why I’m single, in response to a question, a great many people need to argue with me.

I’m single because of differences in lifestyle and values. I don’t need anyone telling me why the people they think I should be trying to date are like they are, or the implication that these differences somehow cease to matter once the reasons are explained to me. Again.

It’s like onions. Onions make me cry. Explaining the science behind this fact won’t make me suddenly start munching on whole raw onions instead of apples. Onions will still make me cry, I will still accept this, and it doesn’t have to be anybody’s fault. I will even continue to like onions, I never said I didn’t, I just don’t want to get into a relationship with one.

So why are so many people so keen to argue? Several replies here addressed the fact of me being single instead of the actual problem. In much the same way most people need to argue about what they perceive as a complaint, when in fact it’s not a complaint.

I’m beginning to think that most people are simply incapable of understanding anything more than simple sentences. Certainly the quality of debate in this site generally indicates that few people really listen to (or read) what anybody else actually says. Usually they have their own ideas and are just waiting for you to agree with them. Then when they catch a few words that are not in alignment with their world view they go on the offensive without even knowing what you really said.

17

Darling, people want you to be happy. The ‘reasons’ you offer for your solitude are interpreted by other people as ‘excuses.’ Therefore they challenge your perceptions. If people didn’t care they would just let you get away with your opinions unchallenged.

Happiness and onions are different fish.

18

[quote=“TomHill”]

Darling, people want you to be happy. The ‘reasons’ you offer for your solitude are interpreted by other people as ‘excuses.’ Therefore they challenge your perceptions. If people didn’t care they would just let you get away with your opinions unchallenged.

Happiness and onions are different fish.[/quote]

:bravo:

I feel her like a song recently.

The main themes repeatedly appear in many aspects.

They are there.

No need for a drink, I have said what I want to say.

19

[quote=“fenlander”]
what arrogance[/quote]

It it hard to follow! What happened?

Why do you have such a hostile attitude toward a person?

20

Precisely. What arrogance?