[quote=“j.scholl”]
Is there anyone else here who really cares that the anthrax attacks were apparently self-inflicted and used to perpetuate passage of the Patriot Act and invasion of Afghanistan?[/quote]
That should be “thinks” rather than “cares”, right? 
And the answer is resoundingly clear, judging by the responses to your fantasies.
From Ed at the above site:
“This was the work of a bunch of idiot conspiracy theorists led by Barbara Hatch Rosenberg who led the media (particularly The New York Times) around by the nose.”
also from Ed:
[i]“Anyone who claims that what happened to Dr. Hatfill is all the fault of the FBI just doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”
"She made it clear what she wanted from the very beginning. She believed that the Bush Administration was behind the attacks, and that the Bush Administration did it to shoot down the Biological and Toxic Weapons Convention (BTWC). She basically stated that at the BTWC in November of 2001.
She and a bunch of others who felt the same way decided that Dr. Hatfill was the “most likely” person to have done what the Bush Administration wanted. So, she began her campaign to get Dr. Hatfill publicly investigated.
The FBI checked out Dr. Hatfill as soon as his name came up, but they found no reason to suspect him. But to the conspiracy theorists, that just meant that the FBI was helping the Bush Administration in a cover-up.
The New York Times joined in, and the campaign went on for SIX MONTHS before Van Harp at the FBI caved in and began the public investigation of Dr. Hatfill."[/i]
Just some of his highlights. Ed’s not a ‘conspiracy’ nut. But he has taken the time to analyze this episode. Interesting site on this stuff.
and:
[i]"People endlessly blame the FBI, but the facts show that the leaking of information about Dr. Hatill was mostly done by lawyers in the Department of Justice. Attorney General Ashcroft’s improper statements that Dr. Hatfill was a “person of interest” didn’t come from the FBI. It was a statement from the head of the DOJ.
… the FBI tried to stop the leaks by stopping the leakers. In one case, they caused the “leak” of ridiculously FALSE information that bloodhounds had gotten Dr. Hatfill’s scent off the anthrax letters. They told it in confidence to the top lawyer in the Washington Office of the DOJ, and that lawyer promptly leaked it to Newsweek. That lawyer is now out of the DOJ.
But I think it’s also important to realize that the Hatfill case almost certainly needed to be resolved before the FBI could arrest the actual culprit. If they didn’t, they’d have to stand up in court in the Hatfill lawsuit and explain why they harrassed Dr. Hatfill while they were all but certain that someone else was the culprit.
There are lots of lessons to be learned here, and it isn’t yet over. Hatfill’s appeal in his lawsuit against the New York Times is still pending.
And, of course, the actual culprit still hasn’t been arrested."[/i]
The settlement will total more than US$5.8 million
deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/arc … 73114.aspx
Looks like they might have found the culprit:
Bruce E. Ivins, 62, a top U.S. biodefense researcher, has committed suicide just after learning that the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him in the anthrax mailings case. CNN story here
You know all these conspiracy theories have an odd antisemitic feel to them. The story seems to be that a bunch of Jews have essentially sacrificed the blood of Americans and Arabs as part of plan to make money and take over the world. Oh, but they are called Neoconservatives so that makes it sound less antisemitic.
Mr. Irvins’ suicide is just going to be fuel for more conspiracies.
I heard it was a UFO that buzzed Area 51, scooped up some anthrax that had been spilled when their alien brothers were transported there from Roswell, and on the way to Washington, DC, they stopped to get directions from Elvis…
Seems plausible to me…
This post actually appeared, in relation to Heath Ledger and his role in Batman, on a website near you:
"Posted by: Mar | March 26, 2008 at 01:08 PM
there’s still a part of me saying hes not dead,
listen to his lines “not every joke is funny”
“it’s all part of the plan”
“why so serious”
and also why was there a ladder out of his appartment window? police , investegators and medical surgeons don’t need ladders,its just that part of me that saying “no hes not dead, its all a joke”
i think he got the role in this movie because he would go along with acting dead for a publicity thing, just think about it;)
but even if he is dead and if his role is as good as everyones saying, then there’s no doubt he will get an oscar nomination
i love him"
Just in case you want to check it out… here’s the website link:
goldderby.latimes.com/awards_gol … sthum.html
Why post this here? Because you people who think Bush masterminded everything from 9/11 to the winner of the Super Bowl sound just this unhinged…
I don’t know anyone who thinks that Bush is a mastermind.
FBI closed their 2001 Anthrax investigation blaming the late Dr. Ivins last month. (NY Times) - so the FBI does actually blame the anthrax attacks on an inside job… but the actual story isn’t so convincing.
Some members of congress have gotten an amendment added to re-open the investigation, focusing on potential foreign leads. Apparently they want to know if the bio-terrorism was actually the work of non-Americans? Should they eventually point to foreign operatives, the next question of how they navigated through and circumvented DoD protections could be revealing.
“U.S. Rep. Rush Holt (NJ-12) succeeded in including language in the 2010 Intelligence Authorization Bill that would require the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community to examine the possibility of a foreign connection to the 2001 anthrax attacks. The amendment was added less than a week after the FBI arbitrarily closed its investigation.”
The second congressman, Mr Bartlett, representing the very district hosting Ft Detrick, quotes laboratory insiders who make the FBI conclusion impossible.
Nice to see there are congressional reps who don’t want the crimes to go unsolved.
"[i]See Also…
The Anthrax Attacks Remain Unsolved: The FBI disproved its main theory about how the spores were weaponized.
online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … 15284.html
The Wall Street Journal - Jan. 24th, 2010[/i]"
The FBI makes a very reasonable case from a substantial body of circumstantial evidence, IMO. I think they probably named the right guy.
[quote]…The cause of i[/i] death was an overdose of the painkiller Tylenol. No autopsy was performed, and there was no suicide note.
(source)[/quote]
Seems a bit of a stretch to make the late Dr. Ivins to be the lone anthrax attacker. An empty Tylenol bottle? There’s got to be more you’re referring to (‘substantial body of circumstantial evidence’).
Maybe like… ‘Officials’ reportedly found ‘sufficient’ reason to label him a paranoid ‘nut’ (of course many a flake uses this approach to avoid analysis, even seen earlier in this thread) - but asking why “weeks before the anthrax letters were found—the White House distributed the antibiotic Cipro to staffers, including those traveling with Vice President Dick Cheney” – makes him inquisitive not crazy, IMO. By the way, working three and a half decades in top secret U.S. research facilities would likely lead most people to question ‘official’ accusations to better discern fact from fiction. But you’ve made a point, why not just blame this one guy? The FBI did, finally. Tylenol.
But I’m thankful there are finally people in office who care enough to officially question the third official yet circumstantial accusation.
[quote]…in an attempt to back up its theory, the FBI contracted scientists at the Lawrence Livermore National Labs in California to conduct experiments in which anthrax is accidently absorbed from a media heavily laced with silicon. When the results were revealed to the National Academy Of Science in September 2009, they effectively blew the FBI’s theory out of the water.
…
If Ivins had neither the equipment or skills to weaponize anthrax with silicon, then some other party with access to the anthrax must have done it. Even before these startling results, Sen. Leahy had told Director Mueller, “I do not believe in any way, shape, or manner that [Ivins] is the only person involved in this attack on Congress.”
(source)[/quote]
Bush, Cheney, Andrew Card, Fox News, NY Times all tried selling the ‘Patriot’ story that our Afghanistan enemies were the Anthrax culprits.
historycommons.org/timeline. … raxattacks
(btw HistoryCommons offers quite an exhaustive archive if you’re into research)
[quote]FBI was told to blame Anthrax scare on Al Qaeda by White House officials
WASHINGTON - In the immediate aftermath of the 2001 anthrax attacks, White House officials repeatedly pressed FBI Director Robert Mueller to prove it was a second-wave assault by Al Qaeda, but investigators ruled that out, the Daily News has learned.
After the Oct. 5, 2001, death from anthrax exposure of Sun photo editor Robert Stevens, Mueller was “beaten up” during President Bush’s morning intelligence briefings for not producing proof the killer spores were the handiwork of terrorist mastermind Osama Bin Laden, according to a former aide.
“They really wanted to blame somebody in the Middle East,” the retired senior FBI official told The News.
(source)[/quote]
Blaming Osama bin Laden worked so well just before (and since), but bummer they couldn’t pass it off, eh? At least we’re still there in Pipelinestan, providing freedom, officially speaking of course.
Also interesting is the Rep who added this re-investigation to legislation is the only ‘quaker’, has a PhD in Physics, and is rated one of the most liberal in the House.
I find your reply incoherent. Tylenol is irrelevant. The article lists quite a bit of evidence against him. I see no need to repeat it here. You’re not open to being convinced anyway, right? 
[quote=“Dragonbones”]You’re not open to being convinced anyway, right? [/quote]Meaning there’s sufficient reason to believe they ‘probably named the right guy’? You’re probably on the money, that there isn’t enough reason to believe he was the right guy to blame for the anthrax attacks.
I personally think it was one of the guys named. The likelihood of the anthrax to have been weaponized in a US army lab is very very high. It probably was done by a disgruntled employee, and one whose name has been bandied about by the FBI.
Occams razor, instead of elaborate theories, find the simplest one which explains the facts.
However, they have insuffient evidence for one of the prime suspects, and the other one killed himself, so I don’t think we will know the truth for sure.
Dragonbones, I don’t think they got the right guy. Glenn Greenwald has covered the case pretty extensively
here is greenwald’s first coverage of Ivins, which is pretty accepting.
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … 01/anthrax
Then he gets less accepting of the official line.
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … 04/anthrax
Greenwald again.
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … journalism
Note that the “case against Ivins” is a replay of the case against Hatfill
On the journalistic lies
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … journalism
But this one is devastating. The FBI leaks that sustained public opinion that ivins was the attacker contained a gross error that exonerated ivins – so they changed their story
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … 18/anthrax
Vorkosigan
[quote=“Vorkosigan”]Dragonbones, I don’t think they got the right guy. Glenn Greenwald has covered the case pretty extensively
here is greenwald’s first coverage of Ivins, which is pretty accepting.
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … 01/anthrax
Then he gets less accepting of the official line.
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … 04/anthrax
Greenwald again.
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … journalism
Note that the “case against Ivins” is a replay of the case against Hatfill
On the journalistic lies
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … journalism
But this one is devastating. The FBI leaks that sustained public opinion that ivins was the attacker contained a gross error that exonerated ivins – so they changed their story
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … 18/anthrax
Vorkosigan[/quote]
Greenwald is not the only person who has investigated the anthrax attacks. Ed Lake has also written a great deal
anthraxinvestigation.com/
You don’t want to get caught hangin’ with the 911 Truthers. But we all have silly friends and that doesn’t necessarily make us wrong.
Thanks Scott, that is a very useful collection of stuff, most of which I had not seen before.
Vorkosigan
[quote=“Vorkosigan”]The FBI leaks… contained a gross error… – so they changed their story
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn … 18/anthrax[/quote]Salon’s piece nibbles at some of the reasons legislators are pushing for re-investigation.
[quote=“ScottSommers”]Ed Lake has also written a great deal
anthraxinvestigation.com/[/quote]Does Ed’s list of facts, “The facts say that Dr. Ivins was the anthrax mailer:” lack comprehensiveness surrounding the legislators’ push for re-investigation?
He seems to be caught up with recent media nuances over the actual investigation’s inconclusive conclusion. The official investigation’s circumstantial and sometimes reportedly faulty accusations don’t appear to have made his list of ‘facts’.
[quote=“ScottSommers”]You don’t want to get caught hangin’ with the 911 Truthers… silly friends…[/quote]Still no reason to keep hoping your professed research abilities will ever surface. Maybe mirroring this re-investigation topic to snicker ‘silly’ is supposed to masquerade as some long awaited argument. Bummer.
Actually, Ed’s list of facts appears quite comprehensive and contains many things I did not know as well as pointers to other things I believed but I now see that I was wrong. Jscholl, you should spend an hour reading it.
One thing that I always kick myself for: I know how bad the media is/can be from years of watching it (mis)report on Taiwan. But I still give it credibility for its other reporting. Aaargh.
Vorkosigan