Anti-Americanism in Taiwan

Discussion Open Forum
1

I’ve been searching through various Taiwanese blogs and forums, and I’m honestly surprised at the amount of resentment and hatred for the United States in them. I thought that the Taiwanese would be more pro-American or something given US-ROC history, but apparently not…

My first real major impression of this was when I came across this post on Google:
thechinaexpat.com/a-taiwanes … the-world/
And it had the US labeled as “the evil empire”; I didn’t know what to think then, but when I tried to research further, I was really shocked at some of the overt online hostility against the United States from the Taiwanese. Lots of them really do call America that, by habit, they also call it the world’s greatest terrorist nation, and saying that the Evil Empire is always trying to provoke North Korea or Iran in a war in order to exploit more oil is a common statement…

One of the most powerful statements a Taiwanese person posted was: “All I can say is that if Taiwan had oil, we would have been invaded by the US already.” 美帝 (American imperialists) is one of most frequent derogatory phrases I see on the forums describing the US.

And much of Taiwan’s media is hardly pro-American as well; this news commentary channel is so pro-China and hostile to the US that at first I thought it was some kind of joke.

I don’t deny that most tourists of course will be treated wonderfully, and I myself have known Taiwanese people…but my general impression is that the Taiwanese, at least those online, do not view the U.S. itself positively.

And…I am just curious, have any of you foreigners ever sensed this quiet resentment, this subtle negativity? What do you think about this?

2

[quote=“Rafasa”]I’ve been searching through various Taiwanese blogs and forums, and I’m honestly surprised at the amount of resentment and hatred for the United States in them. I thought that the Taiwanese would be more pro-American or something given US-ROC history, but apparently not…

My first real major impression of this was when I came across this post on Google:
thechinaexpat.com/a-taiwanes … the-world/
And it had the US labeled as “the evil empire”; I didn’t know what to think then, but when I tried to research further, I was really shocked at some of the overt online hostility against the United States from the Taiwanese. Lots of them really do call America that, by habit, they also call it the world’s greatest terrorist nation, and saying that the Evil Empire is always trying to provoke North Korea or Iran in a war in order to exploit more oil is a common statement…

One of the most powerful statements a Taiwanese person posted was: “All I can say is that if Taiwan had oil, we would have been invaded by the US already.” 美帝 (American imperialists) is one of most frequent derogatory phrases I see on the forums describing the US.

And much of Taiwan’s media is hardly pro-American as well; this news commentary channel is so pro-China and hostile to the US that at first I thought it was some kind of joke.

I don’t deny that most tourists of course will be treated wonderfully…but my general impression is that the Taiwanese, at least those online, do not view the U.S. itself positively.[/quote]

I am guessing that a lot of that Taiwanese anti-US stuff is probably 50-cents stuff from people in China or very pro unification Taiwanese.

That is, it is people deliberately posting to fill up cyberspace with their views to create the illusion of a consensus or wave of public opinion damning the US.

3

My experience is most Taiwanese really like America and Americans, it would be hard to find a more pro US country and Americans make a sizable proportion of expats here. Don’t go by your impression of some crackpots on the Internet. Like the poster above said, there are a lot of Chinese posting crap aswell.

4

On occasion I’ve come across some anti-American nutjob in Taiwan. Very rare. Seemed to me that they had more “issues” than just anti-American sentiment, and could have benefited from professional help.

Most people in Taiwan have a positive opinion of the US, even if they might not agree with American leadership or foreign policy.

5

I am sure that there are indeed mainlanders infiltrating Taiwanese forums, and vice versa. But it is not likely that all or most of them are so.

Even on the most popular of forums, like – tw.news.yahoo.com
Have you seen the majority of the comments there by the Taiwanese? They were cheering North Korea on, and praising him for wanting to destroy South Korea (the one nation they seem to hate most); one of the first comments I saw on the article of Kim Jong-un vowing to strike the U.S. was praising him for doing so, something like - “Go, destroy the Evil Empire with your missiles and send several to blow up Japan as well.” (and it was the top-rated comment as well)

A large deal of Taiwanese people, according to all the forums and article comments I managed to go through translate…this is kind of random, I know, also seem to despise Israel (which one could argue is understandable, but even so) and Jews in general. They keep saying how the rich and conniving Jews have completely taken over the West and Japan and provoked the Middle East wars, that all we have is “false democracy”; one commenter said that the Americans shouldn’t be the ones hated, but rather Jews controlling them, another said that he wished Hitler could have finished the job years ago; I’ve also noticed a lot of swastika avatars on some forums. Lots of them also seem to support Iran destroying Israel as well for some reason…

And most of the questions related to the U.S. and politics on tw.knowledge.yahoo.com are pretty negative as well…always about America plundering natural resources for his own greed, for dividing Korea for its own interests, for imperialism and hypocrisy…I’ve also noticed very negative anti-US comments on YouTube videos from Taiwanese users as well. One thing that truly shocked me was a Yahoo News comment after the U.S. elementary school shootings, it was basically, “So what? Who told you to invade other countries?”

I mean, I don’t know, I am considerably surprised by everything I’ve learned about their opinions…of course, I guess it’s possible this could represent only a small but vocal minority, but even so, it is notable all the same.

mobile01.com/topicdetail.php … &p=1&img=0
mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=37&t=2936403

These are two forum posts from one of Taiwan’s most popular discussion sites, concerning the commemoration of 9/11. You can translate them yourselves if you want, but most of the comments were indeed pretty negative.
“In fact, the Yankees are the greatest terrorists. :smiley:”
“More people have died in other countries because of terrorist activities, it was not in their home, the Americans care, the world should commemorate this?”
“I am not going to sympathize with the Americans (just like I did not sympathize with the Japanese bombed in Tokyo).”
“The Americans are the greatest terrorists, the biggest arm sellers, and what is more, they meddle in internal affairs of others.”
“It is possible that America planned the attacks itself, it would reap many benefits, it is very evil, but not impossible.”
“The U.S. is always looking for an excuse for war, the jihad is only taste of his own medicine.”
“In fact, Osama and Hussein were once supported by America itself…an infinite loop. :smiley:”
“I sincerely regret this disaster on behalf of all the non-Americans and foreign friends… As for the Americans…let them regret it themselves.”
“9/11 was not done by the Americans themselves? I watched a clip before - the attack was self-inflicted, there is much evidence.”
“Basically, if the Americans regarded the people of other countries as people, there would not be these things happened!”
“Those Muslim nations see America as a terrorist nation.”
“I will pity those innocent victims, but the attack was brought upon itself, and deserved.”
“Some people say that the Yankees planned the attack for oil, killed some of their own people…America is the true terrorist, for their interests, sacrifice lives for money.”
“I want bin Laden to rest with his 49 virgins in heaven to accompany him; he must be very happy.”’
“If the attack was on the Pentagon or Wall Street, I personally do not oppose.”
“Allah punish American imperialists, always wanting to provoke wars in Asia.”
“9/11 is even more outrageous is that, even in New York was bombed, got full MLB team must accompany the New York Yankees to sing God Bless the United States every 7th inning.”

6

These are complete crackpots. Imagine Taiwanese using Forumosa to get an idea what foreigners are like:

It’s weird, they all seem to despise paper money.

:laughing:

7

[quote=“Rafasa”]I am sure that there are indeed
mainlanders infiltrating Taiwanese forums
, and vice versa. But it is not likely that all or most of them are so.
[/quote]

Maybe so, but don’t underestimate how serious the pro-PRC Chinese are about using the Internet to promote their views and demote those of others.

8

they like German even more! :slight_smile:

9

Any place allowing online comments will attract nutjobs and trolls. Don’t judge Taiwan by the rantings of nuts, trolls and extremists.

10

These articles may also help you glean some insight into the Taiwanese perspective, they are intriguing editorials published after 9/11. I think it helps outsiders to better understand some Taiwanese’s perspectives of America and its actions.
taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 0000102775
taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 0000102948
taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 0000103069
taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 0000104583
taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 0000201551

11

You really dug yourself a hole putting in links to Taipei Times editorials :slight_smile:.

I don’t engage Taiwanese online as they become very defensive and it often attracts the real nutjobs with nothing better to do then spew vitriol against foreigners or whoever is the hated group of the day.

12

Taiwanese are overwhelmingly pro-US. And they should be as the US allowed them to flourish and be who they are today.

13

Should they be? Perhaps, and perhaps not. No one can deny that America has offered tremendous assistance to Taiwan - it indeed donated billions for Taiwanese early industrialization - but “overwhelmingly” pro-US…I think it is indeed an exaggeration, at best. I think it is somewhat naive for us to presume upon any people’s views…especially in this current reality. This world is far from an ideal one. And it is not easy for Westerners to truly comprehend the Taiwanese mindset and worldview.

I know this topic is kind of out in the open…it’s just that I’ve always been curious to what the people of Taiwan thought about America and international issues beyond East Asia. Most - both Americans and mainland Chinese - just assume automatically that 99.9% love America and despise China. But things are never so black-and-white. It’s not just as easy as Taiwanese = pro-American, mainlanders = anti-American

14

Who are the outsiders here who need help gleaning some insight into the Taiwanese perspective? Certainly not most of those who have been posting in this thread.

Rafasa, how much time have you spent in Taiwan?

15

Should they be? Perhaps, and perhaps not. No one can deny that America has offered tremendous assistance to Taiwan - it indeed donated billions for Taiwanese early industrialization - but “overwhelmingly” pro-US…I think it is indeed an exaggeration, at best. I think it is somewhat naive for us to presume upon any people’s views…especially in this current reality. This world is far from an ideal one.

I know this topic is kind of out in the open…it’s just that I’ve always been curious to what the people of Taiwan thought about America and international issues beyond East Asia. Most just assume automatically that 99.9% love America and despise China. But things are never so black-and-white. It’s not just as easy as Taiwanese = pro-American, mainlanders = anti-American[/quote]

Should be= FUCKING YES, Taiwan would not be ‘ROC’, ‘Taiwan, Province of China’, ‘Chinese Taipei’ or anything else without the US, it would simply be PRC. Freedoms would be limited, and the people would be much poorer (favorable trade agreements lent themselves to the whole ‘made in Taiwan’ phenomenon of the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s). This island would be Red China without the Taiwan Relations Act.

Does the US benefit from this? Absolutely, but so too has Taiwan, immeasurably and most intelligent people understand this.

You will always find elements of anti-Americanism everywhere, because it proliferates extreme left politics, conspiracy crowds and other fringe groups.

In Taiwan it is as small as almost anywhere, but that doesn’t mean non-existence (you will find pockets of anti-Americanism in Canada, the UK and even the US itself).

16

Should they be? Perhaps, and perhaps not. No one can deny that America has offered tremendous assistance to Taiwan - it indeed donated billions for Taiwanese early industrialization - but “overwhelmingly” pro-US…I think it is indeed an exaggeration, at best. I think it is somewhat naive for us to presume upon any people’s views…especially in this current reality. This world is far from an ideal one.

I know this topic is kind of out in the open…it’s just that I’ve always been curious to what the people of Taiwan thought about America and international issues beyond East Asia. Most just assume automatically that 99.9% love America and despise China. But things are never so black-and-white. It’s not just as easy as Taiwanese = pro-American, mainlanders = anti-American[/quote]

Should be= FUCKING YES, Taiwan would not be ‘ROC’, ‘Taiwan, Province of China’, ‘Chinese Taipei’ or anything else without the US, it would simply be PRC. Freedoms would be limited, and the people would be much poorer (favorable trade agreements lent themselves to the whole ‘made in Taiwan’ phenomenon of the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s). This island would be Red China without the Taiwan Relations Act.

Does the US benefit from this? Absolutely, but so too has Taiwan, immeasurably and most intelligent people understand this.

You will always find elements of anti-Americanism everywhere, because it proliferates extreme left politics, conspiracy crowds and other fringe groups.

In Taiwan it is as small as almost anywhere, but that doesn’t mean non-existence (you will find pockets of anti-Americanism in Canada, the UK and even the US itself).[/quote]

Well, let me ask you this, and I agree with much of what you said as well - have you perceived any sense of resentment at all towards the United States by the people of Taiwan? How do you know that they are pro-American?

17

I was getting somewhat friendly with a young Taiwanese women one time when she suddenly became cold after finding out I was American. As it turned out she actually hated Yankees and was under the impression I was Canadian. I blame myself though. I came across as a bit of a Canadian and even appeared a bit Canadian too. So yes, anti-Americanism is very much alive in Taiwan, and it hurts :aiyo:

18

Should they be? Perhaps, and perhaps not. No one can deny that America has offered tremendous assistance to Taiwan - it indeed donated billions for Taiwanese early industrialization - but “overwhelmingly” pro-US…I think it is indeed an exaggeration, at best. I think it is somewhat naive for us to presume upon any people’s views…especially in this current reality. This world is far from an ideal one.

I know this topic is kind of out in the open…it’s just that I’ve always been curious to what the people of Taiwan thought about America and international issues beyond East Asia. Most just assume automatically that 99.9% love America and despise China. But things are never so black-and-white. It’s not just as easy as Taiwanese = pro-American, mainlanders = anti-American[/quote]

Should be= FUCKING YES, Taiwan would not be ‘ROC’, ‘Taiwan, Province of China’, ‘Chinese Taipei’ or anything else without the US, it would simply be PRC. Freedoms would be limited, and the people would be much poorer (favorable trade agreements lent themselves to the whole ‘made in Taiwan’ phenomenon of the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s). This island would be Red China without the Taiwan Relations Act.

Does the US benefit from this? Absolutely, but so too has Taiwan, immeasurably and most intelligent people understand this.

You will always find elements of anti-Americanism everywhere, because it proliferates extreme left politics, conspiracy crowds and other fringe groups.

In Taiwan it is as small as almost anywhere, but that doesn’t mean non-existence (you will find pockets of anti-Americanism in Canada, the UK and even the US itself).[/quote]

Well, let me ask you this, and I agree with much of what you said as well - have you perceived any sense of resentment at all towards the United States by the people of Taiwan? How do you know that they are pro-American?[/quote]

Yes, as I stated there are pockets of anti-Americanism everywhere.

How do I know:

1-I have lived here for 13 years and spent extensive time talking with 1000s of locals through my work and social life.
2-I am not American, so I do not really have a horse in this race, ie no reason to have a bias.
3-There have been several ‘kooks’ who used to speak in public about how America was great.
4-I have a lot of TW friends who grew up in the US and none have a negative view of the place.
5-Many TW people have their fortune as a result of US trade.
6-TW has been basically a US protectorate since 1949.
7-Older Chinese war vets cite the treatment in US camps to be much more humane than it was in Japanese camps.
8-I rarely if ever hear the US brought up in a negative light here, to the point where I find it a bit bizarre.
9-US culture is deeply ingrained in the fabric of Taiwan society.
10-TW trusts the US so much that it cites US FDA for example as an authority for safety on products sold locally.
11-10 years ago America was the only country that didn’t have to pay for a tourist visa to the ROC.
12-The Taiwan Relations Act provides comfort to 23 million people.

19

One should wonder who the OP is ? And why the Anti-Taiwan in his postings?

Whys he stirring up shit that aint there?

Is he American ? What time has he spent on Taiwan, etc etc.

Taiwan is just bout the most Pro American place there is outside of the Phillippines.

For the majority, crackpots aside.

Is he one of these communist Chinese trolls that have been mentioned?

20

[quote=“Mucha Man”]These are complete crackpots. Imagine Taiwanese using Forumosa to get an idea what foreigners are like:

It’s weird, they all seem to despise paper money.

:laughing:[/quote]

Here is what I can confirm: TaipeiTimes is pro-American. As is the Taiwanese NMAWorldEdition channel of YouTube. And most of the DPP/Pan-Green users online, those who refuse to call themselves Chinese, are by far, in almost every forum I’ve noticed, be it Yahoo, YouTube, Facebook, or a discussion site, are by far the most hostile to the CCP, and are by far are the most pro-Japanese and pro-American, and condemned the 9/11 attacks most strongly, and were the only ones to positively react to bin Laden’s death. I personally admire the DPP a lot, it’s a progressive party, and that is essential to any true democracy. And to think America wanted the KMT, which spews hate against America and its allies every week on its news channels, to win instead.

Here are my thoughts on certain reasons for this online negativity from so many Taiwanese people -
Taiwan has no official relations with the CCP; it has no choice but to be pro-American, at least on the surface, KMT or DPP. It wants to exercise its own sovereignty, but it knows that it basically has to be allies with America, and thus officially supportive of everything America does, if it wants its current rule to survive. That’s bound to cause resentment over year after year. Just like some people will probably be more pro-American in an anti-American government.

I also think that there’s a kind of very subtle inferiority complex, locked to great powers, so close to an enemy that is your kin and so far from an ally that is not; some of the comments cheered Kim Jong-un and asked that he destroy Samsung for Taiwan, hinting at a kind of petty rivalry. Apparently, they do not like South Korea at all. There’s also, no offense at all intended, a sense of almost arrogance I personally feel - many Taiwanese people who hated the mainland because it was simply poorer and filthier, a worse place to travel to for the summer, rather than its lacking democracy.

I also think many are disillusioned with “democracy” - it would not protect them from attack, and China’s economy is exploding without it. Also for resentment is apparently the fact that the arms sold to Taiwan were so expensive, forcing them to pay a kind of “protection fee” every year. Also, the PRC and USA, however unfriendly, are at least on some kind of equal parity - two big powers with close economies and official ties - while Taiwan, this small island nation, has always been forced to be this inferior “watchdog” for the United States. From some comments, I also think some Taiwanese are wary of the “whites” trying to harm the “yellow people” based on past Western colonialism and everything, and some Taiwanese see the terrorists as merely freedom fighters against the historical aggression of the “whites”. Do not forget how many empires Taiwan itself has been part of.

Here is what I want to clarify - just because a nation is a democracy does not at all mean its people are necessarily perfect or noble. That goes for the US and Taiwan. We tend to label things as “good” and “evil” - North and South Korea, for example. And if it’s a US ally…well, I mean, Turkey is part of NATO, but it is maybe the most anti-American nation in the world, with 85% of Turks loathing the US. Just because the government of Taiwan is a capitalist democracy, and shares much in common with the US, does not mean it is a mature democracy, or one with sufficient humility. You need only look at the fistfighting politicians to see that…

I am not trying to start an argument, please…but yes, I do believe there are distinct anti-American elements in Taiwan. Taiwan is indeed a beautiful place, and it is better than the Communist Party by far, I am certain, but many Taiwanese regard America more as a necessary evil rather than as a trustworthy ally.

pttonline.cc/view/166828