Anti-Americanism in Taiwan

How come your first post is all about stirring up shit that aint there? One has to question who YOU are? And what is your motive? OP ?

U got what ? six posts?

U signed on only to spew this BS ?

most anti-Americanism comes from a portion of those that are extremely pro-unification with China. Somehow they buy in to all the Evil American Empire crap from China. But realisitically, the US hasn’t been all that nice to Taiwan, especially not recently.

I might agree with you there. And the Diaoyu/Senkaku island dispute is not helping either. Honestly, I try to defend America, but it is neglecting Taiwan too much in this disagreement…and at the end of the day, the United States does not even recognize Taiwan at all.

In all truth, Taiwan is a polarized society, and a sharply polarized one at that, divided on many political and social issues. I just didn’t realize that some Taiwanese really resented America that much.

I think you’re confusing governments with the countries they govern. I know some Taiwanese that resent Taiwan getting used like a political pawn by the U.S., but they love America and love spending time there. Taiwanese I know tend not to like Mainland China, not just because the government sucks and is hostile to their country, but because it’s full of Mainlanders. Most people judge other countries by the people, culture, and environment, not the government. I don’t see Taiwanese being much different. Only a lame-wod would renounce a country of people because of their government. Maybe you need to stop wasting your time on hateful drivel and spend more time on expat forums dedicated to providing useful information and bettering mankind across all nations

I’d can’t remember ever hearing anti-Americanism here. All the angry young men seem too busy playing baseball and basketball.

Of course. America’s cultural and economic influence on Taiwan is tremendous. Taiwanese youth freely watch American movies, listen to American songs, use American products and use English commonly with each other. No one can deny that. But with all due respect, the people of Taiwan and the US should not harbor too many illusions about each other. The current relationship is not at all what is once might have been, and for good reason.

Of course. America’s cultural and economic influence on Taiwan is tremendous. Taiwanese youth freely watch American movies, listen to American songs, use American products and use English commonly with each other. No one can deny that. But with all due respect, the people of Taiwan and the US should not harbor too many illusions about each other. The current relationship is not at all what is once might have been, and for good reason.[/quote]
Have you ever been to Taiwan?

Of course. America’s cultural and economic influence on Taiwan is tremendous. Taiwanese youth freely watch American movies, listen to American songs, use American products and use English commonly with each other. No one can deny that. But with all due respect, the people of Taiwan and the US should not harbor too many illusions about each other. The current relationship is not at all what is once might have been, and for good reason.[/quote]

It is only ‘strained’ on the surface to appease the petulant children who run the monolith across the strait. They get their panties in an awkward bunch every time they think the US is messing in ‘China’s domestic affairs’ (dealing with Taiwan).

So, to keep Taiwan safe, the US has a more hands off approach because China commands more respect.

You have nothing really tangible to add to the discussion besides your very weak impressions of the situation, so this will be my last post, sorry you didn’t find what you were looking for, but that happens when you go hunting with questions your agenda has already answered, but do not jive with reality.

[quote=“Rafasa”]

A large deal of Taiwanese people, according to all the forums and article comments I managed to go through translate…this is kind of random, I know, also seem to despise Israel (which one could argue is understandable, but even so) and Jews in general. They keep saying how the rich and conniving Jews have completely taken over the West and Japan and provoked the Middle East wars, that all we have is “false democracy”; one commenter said that the Americans shouldn’t be the ones hated, but rather Jews controlling them, another said that he wished Hitler could have finished the job years ago; I’ve also noticed a lot of swastika avatars on some forums. Lots of them also seem to support Iran destroying Israel as well for some reason…[/quote]

I gotto agree with Tommy, I think you are trolling.

I am Jewish, I live in Taiwan. I often tell my students that I am Jewish. They always offer me 2 stereotypes.

Jews are:

  1. Rich
  2. Smart

I tell them I am poor, then they say “But you are still smart!” I have even had a number of people bring up Einstein as a representative of Jewish brilliance.

There really isn’t any anti-Semitism here. In fact, Han people, in general, are extremely pro-Jew. From Hong Kong, to the Mainland and Taiwan (Singapore I got no clue about).

So the OP is for sure trolling, but hey, its all fun.

Ha, have you met any English expats?

[quote=“Confuzius”][quote=“Rafasa”]

A large deal of Taiwanese people, according to all the forums and article comments I managed to go through translate…this is kind of random, I know, also seem to despise Israel (which one could argue is understandable, but even so) and Jews in general. They keep saying how the rich and conniving Jews have completely taken over the West and Japan and provoked the Middle East wars, that all we have is “false democracy”; one commenter said that the Americans shouldn’t be the ones hated, but rather Jews controlling them, another said that he wished Hitler could have finished the job years ago, yet another said if Islam was cancer, then Judaism was AIDS. I’ve also noticed a lot of swastika avatars on some forums, and lots of netizens also seem to support Iran destroying Israel as well for some reason…[/quote]

I gotto agree with Tommy, I think you are trolling.

I am Jewish, I live in Taiwan. I often tell my students that I am Jewish. They always offer me 2 stereotypes.

Jews are:

  1. Rich
  2. Smart

I tell them I am poor, then they say “But you are still smart!” I have even had a number of people bring up Einstein as a representative of Jewish brilliance.

There really isn’t any anti-Semitism here. In fact, Han people, in general, are extremely pro-Jew. From Hong Kong, to the Mainland and Taiwan (Singapore I got no clue about).

So the OP is for sure trolling, but hey, its all fun.[/quote]

No, I am really not. Have you ever watched any of Taiwan’s major news commentary channels pertaining to Israel? Do you know how many of them say the exact same things about Jews, taking all these conspiracy theories for pretty much accepted fact? The mainland - and Singapore as well - is in fact very pro-Jew and extremely pro-Israel for some reason, while Hong Kong seems to be much more divided, But Taiwan, for whatever reason, is not; one said that if Islam was cancer, then Judaism was like AIDS. And if Taiwanese students have formed pro-Nazi groups before, one could argue that obviously not all of them are that sympathetic.
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … party.html

Look, I do not want to argue with any of you. If you think what I have said is nonsense, then so be it; I do not say that there are not Taiwanese people who still like and admire America, and thousands do indeed still travel to America each year. Obviously there are minor reasons for irritation, such as the sale of American beef, but I think it goes deeper than that. Even if the tiniest grain of truth is in these posts, I personally think that there is indeed an undertone of slowly rising anti-Americanism. I mean, seriously, if you look at the majority of comments on tw.news.yahoo.com these days alone, most of them are not at all favorable of the United States or its allies, and very strongly supportive of the PRC.

I do not say that it is undeserved, of course, much of the US’s foreign policy is indeed controversial, especially regarding its actions in the Middle East, that is undeniable. But despite that, other Asian allies of the US, such as South Korea, Japan and the Philippines, are still among the most pro-American countries in the world. I am sure that most Taiwanese people find Western culture fascinating, and will treat all foreigners excellently, but their private views of the US are honestly not the most positive at all.

Why would Taiwanese people view the US positively? Because of repeated arms sales? I rather think not; even seven years ago, 66% of Taiwanese people strongly viewed negatively buying American weapons, and they have had little reason to view the United States more positively since.
boxun.com/forum/boxun2006b/317941.shtml

Again, I do not want to get in a huge debate over this, just idealism does not always equal reality. If you really want, I will request for this thread to be closed.

[quote=“Rafasa”]I’ve been searching through various Taiwanese blogs and forums, and I’m honestly surprised at the amount of resentment and hatred for the United States in them. I thought that the Taiwanese would be more pro-American or something given US-ROC history, but apparently not…

My first real major impression of this was when I came across this post on Google:
thechinaexpat.com/a-taiwanes … the-world/
And it had the US labeled as “the evil empire”; I didn’t know what to think then, but when I tried to research further, I was really shocked at some of the overt online hostility against the United States from the Taiwanese. Lots of them really do call America that, by habit, they also call it the world’s greatest terrorist nation, and saying that the Evil Empire is always trying to provoke North Korea or Iran in a war in order to exploit more oil is a common statement…

One of the most powerful statements a Taiwanese person posted was: “All I can say is that if Taiwan had oil, we would have been invaded by the US already.” 美帝 (American imperialists) is one of most frequent derogatory phrases I see on the forums describing the US.

And much of Taiwan’s media is hardly pro-American as well; this news commentary channel is so pro-China and hostile to the US that at first I thought it was some kind of joke.

I don’t deny that most tourists of course will be treated wonderfully, and I myself have known Taiwanese people myself…but my general impression is that the Taiwanese, at least those online, do not view the U.S. itself positively.

And…I am just curious, have any of you foreigners ever sensed this quiet resentment, this subtle negativity? What do you think about this?[/quote]

When asked in Taiwan: “Where are you from ?”, no doubt the best reply is USA. Answering that you are from Europe also seems great, where locals may have a slight preference for Germany + small West-european and Scandinavian countries. South-europeans, like from Spain, Greece, Italy are much appreciated when it comes to good suits, food, romantic attitude, easy going, flair, family oriented, etc. - only issue is that they may not speak a lot of English. I have never experienced any anti-American sentiment while in Taiwan. Surely, some Taiwanese businessmen, after visiting the USA frequently, tell that they are not that thrilled anymore: they think the USA is boring, food lousy, taxis invisible, office people appear to be shallow short-term thinkers who talk far more than they really do. On the other side, Taiwanese - who rather do than think - fully acknowledge that the last decades innovations in literature, film, music, dance, IT, electronics, and marketing, came from the US. Not much from Europe, not from Japan anymore. Also, most have a niece from a class-mate from a good friend from the army, who has a degree from the US and now lives in NY, LA or Florida, doing extremely well. Yes, she decided to stay in the US. In politics, the Taiwanese want to believe that the US will always come to defend in case of a military conflict - even for no other reason than the monopoly on arms supply to Taiwan. Mr. Nixon gave the Taiwanese big loss of face, but they are pragmatic and accept he had to switch US-politics from Taipei to Beijing. The recent visa-free visits to the US certainly help to underline how the US supports Taiwan. Because of their people.

You say Taiwan loves America. You may of course be right. But in a poll of their favorite countries in 2012, 52% of Taiwanese people chose Japan (though I’m afraid this view may have sharply deteriorated since, the burnings of Japanese flags in Taipei may indicate that) only 8% of Taiwanese people chose the US, slightly more than China (5%)
wantchinatimes.com/news-subc … 7&cid=1101

Honestly, this isn’t something I’ve just noticed today and decided to tell post randomly; this has been making me uncomfortable for many months now, and the more I try to learn about the Taiwanese opinion of America, the more negative it seems to become. The forum sites I’ve checked are the main ones used in Taiwan, statistically. Some of the anti-American language, about its greedy actions, the typical falseness and hypocrisy of its society and culture, and its evil imperialism, is very strong and very negative, about hoping for North Korea to one day destroy the American Empire.
mobile01.com/topicdetail.php … 718438&p=1

And this was about whether you felt sorry for America for Hurricane Sandy, most said they had no feeling or reaction, a few said that that they were very pleased, with the usual Emoticons to emphasize their point.
mobile01.com/topicdetail.php … 029052&p=1

There was a poll on a Taiwanese blog about whether America was really the Evil Empire; 100% of users apparently thought so by voting yes.
s8088.com/thread-454761-1-1.html

And as for my original post -
thechinaexpat.com/presentations/ … ngage.html

All countries have a different worldview - and obviously like this image, many such worldviews have been satirized and made comical, thus maybe exaggerated and based on stereotyping, but also reflecting the general populace’s perspective on many levels. But the fact that the Taiwan worldview, and one of Taiwanese children, no less, sees America as the Evil Empire as clearly marked on this map, is somewhat discouraging. So the ROC is very American governmentally, unlike the PRC; that’s awesome…on the governmental level, but not necessarily on the people-to-people level. If the government keeps calling the US their closest ally and friend, and the people keep thinking of America as the evil imperialist exploiters, what’s the point, really?

Forget my later posts for now; if you say that Taiwan loves the US, how do you explain this “View of the World"? If you ask Taiwanese people about the US being the Evil Empire, how do you think they’ll respond?

In my own experience, by far and away the leading international contender for sycophantc Yank hating, biter of feeding hands category, are Canadians.

There were a few misconceptions on the amount of American influence in Taiwan by one of the above posters. Over the last decade by far the biggest influences for young people and even housewives and middle aged people are Korea and Japan and China and Hong Kong. Western music is not very popular here nor are Western TV series or books. The only remaining major western influences would be Hollywood movies and some online computer games. Even things like hip hop type dancing are filtered through other Asian countries.

Also European music is the most popular now in the US in the form of electronic dance music, popular since I was a teenager in Europe but North Americans are only now getting a taste for it.

There is a bit of push back against outside interference in Taiwan, that’s normal, but I think very few would not want the US to be Taiwan’s ally. Also don’t underrate the Chinese propaganda machine online.

There were a few misconceptions on the amount of American influence in Taiwan by one of the above posters. Over the last decade by far the biggest influences for young people and even housewives and middle aged people are Korea and Japan and China and Hong Kong. Western music is not very popular here nor are Western TV series or books. The only remaining major western influences would be Hollywood movies and some online computer games. Even things like hip hop type dancing are filtered through other Asian countries.

Also European music is the most popular now in the US in the form of electronic dance music, popular since I was a teenager in Europe but North Americans are only now getting a taste for it.

There is a bit of push back against outside interference in Taiwan, that’s normal, but I think very few would not want the US to be Taiwan’s ally. Also don’t underrate the Chinese propaganda machine online.

I have never encountered any serious anti-Americanism here. (I am American.) Sometimes there are demonstrators in front of AIT, but their concerns are usually more narrowly-formulated (war, beef, etc.). My impression is that many Taiwanese think of certain parts of the USA and Canada as extensions of their own homeland, which they might visit on holiday, or go for university, or where their wealther and more fortunate members might move.

Japan is loved by younger generations for its pop culture, and hated (by some Guomindang supporters) for reasons that on inspection, have very little to do with Japan, and a lot to do with local conflicts over identity. Korea is loved for its pop culture, but hated by a few for…something to do with a Tae Kwan Do match, if memory serves. And economic competition.

Most ordinary Taiwanese people have only a very vague idea of Israel or Jews, if they have even heard of them at all. Hitler is better known, and considered kind of cool and iconic, like Mao or Che elsewhere, but for younger people, the whole World War II era would be a blur of subjects they crammed for in school. I can believe that people might associate Judaism with Einstein, but they would still be confused by very basic things, like why Jews might not celebrate Christmas or eat pork. I find it difficult to believe that anti-Semitic theories would be widely known here. (For the sake of comparison, in Japan and China there have been some popular books praising Jews for their business ability, while I have seen the Protocols offered for sale in airport bookstores in Malaysia, complete with a foreword by some local imam.) The whole Middle East region tends to loom larger in the Western consciousness than it does here, although in view of their dependence on Middle Eastern oil, they really should be paying closer attention to it.

I would say when the 7th fleet was patrolling the Taiwan straight, the Taiwanese sentiment was strongly pro-America. Also at the time the sentiment was strongly against Japan and China. That only deteriorated a little bit when the US joined the UK to abandon the Chiang Kai-shek dictatorship, and established relationships with China.

But even well into the 80s and early 90s Taiwan was filled with American media. Taiwanese network TV regularly feature American TV shows. But as local programs such as the Poo-Te-hi puppet TV shows were banned, and the government allowed showing Japanese animation for children, the younger generation essentially grew up watching nothing but Japanese animation. I think that for the most part is why polls show Japan in favor more than the US.

[quote=“hansioux”]I would say when the 7th fleet was patrolling the Taiwan straight, the Taiwanese sentiment was strongly pro-America. Also at the time the sentiment was strongly against Japan and China. That only deteriorated a little bit when the US joined the UK to abandon the Chiang Kai-shek dictatorship, and established relationships with China.

But even well into the 80s and early 90s Taiwan was filled with American media. Taiwanese network TV regularly feature American TV shows. But as local programs such as the Poo-Te-hi puppet TV shows were banned, and the government allowed showing Japanese animation for children, the younger generation essentially grew up watching nothing but Japanese animation. I think that for the most part is why polls show Japan in favor more than the US.[/quote]

Maybe the younger generation still like Japanese culture, but honestly, on the whole, the Taiwanese aren’t that enthusiastic about Japan as a country either, not any longer. Do you know how many protests there have been in Taiwan against Japanese actions around Diaoyu/Senkaku? The uproar when the former President said they were Japan’s was huge all over Taiwan.

I’m interested in this because Western media is often fascinated by Chinese netizens from the mainland commenting on important global issues (kind of like Westerners going to ChinaSmack and similar sites), but always seem to largely ignore Taiwanese online opinions. Yeah, the basic stereotype is always most Taiwanese love Japan and the US, are part of the free world, are the “good” counterpart to the PRC China…but is it that accurate? This online trend is very negative and very vocal, and is only becoming more so each day.

Have you heard about the recent Boston terrorist bombings? I just found out a few minutes ago, and this is the Taiwanese reaction, which at this point is honestly not that shocking.
tw.news.yahoo.com/波士頓連環爆-朝可能恐攻偵辦-080502501.html

“Anti-American imperialism hero, well-done! Give you ten thousand praises!”
“How many did US kill in Middle East? Plant seed, you will get fruit.”
“I hate mainlanders, I despise American imperialists, North Korea is very strong, refuel. Ma Ying Jeou is a woman, useless.”
“Americans always bullying others, the Middle Easterners cannot defeat America so resort to these measures.”
“I also hate the American dogs, what I want to say, many users have said. Any action against American dogs is truly justice.”
“Poor Americans, grieving, try self-reliance. I think more than half of the people in the world will not sympathize with you. The other half is sit on the sidelines as vengance comes. This is for the pain you bring to the world. Even children know that there will be another sequel. Time for beer. Just you wait!”
“I advise America not to interfere with other countries’ internal affairs, or more terrorist attacks.”
“This time, everyone is commenting on American sites, Google, Yahoo, clearly seen. Leaving a comment here might be analyzed by FBI computer filter.”
“American pigs being attacked is not unreasonable, since cannot openly attack, can only secretly.”
“Very easy, pretending to seek culprit, the culprit is you, the United States, do not pretend, you did it for a purpose!”

You could say these are mainlanders, Communists, 50-cents, posting in Traditional Chinese - it is possible? Of course, but I don’t think so.

These are not mainlanders at all, not unless no one in Taiwan comments on these sites, these truly are Taiwanese netizens spewing hate for America. They neither like nor trust America, they just think the US someone who they need to pay money to in order to survive each year. And I think it is unwise to turn a blind eye to this anymore. The sentiment is not at all in the open, but it is indeed there, and it is rising steadily. They have a point that the US’s actions in the Middle East were very wrong, and that neither Afghanistan nor Iraq were just wars, but I am shocked, honestly, by the lack of sensitivity, by the sheer amount of contempt and hatred in these comments. If this is the only Chinese democracy in the world, I am not sure if I want to be part of it. But Taiwan is free after all, free to hate America as much it does China, and perhaps much, much more.

[quote=“Rafasa”]
Maybe the younger generation still like Japanese culture, but honestly, on the whole, the Taiwanese aren’t that enthusiastic about Japan as a country either, not any longer. Do you know how many protests there have been in Taiwan against Japanese actions around Diaoyu/Senkaku? The uproar when the former President said they were Japan’s was huge all over Taiwan. [/quote]

Most of the Taiwanese who are enthusiastic about claiming Diaoyu Tai for Taiwan are either hardcore pro-China dudes, or fishermen who had enough of the Japanese police bullshit. All the fishermen wants is their rights to fish in their traditional fishing grounds, like I’ve mentioned previously in other Senkaku threads, a fishing rights treaty would satisfy them. That leaves us with those dudes who drive the Chinese flag around Taipei. Most of the Taiwanese people I know use “釣魚台是我們的” as a pun. It just seems like a unrealistic and enthusiastic claim, and young people often use it when random situation calls for it, such as cheering someone on at a sporting event, because it’s hilarious.