There was a report in the news on Wednesday where Tsai Ing-wen (蔡英文) had said she would take responsibility for the protest because she couldn’t promise that it would be free of violence. Could the large police presence be due to this? When the leader of the opposition party suggests that their own protest might be violent, you’re going to expect a very large police response.
I’d say that the police presence was entirely reasonable and necessary.
Of course those anti-China protesters should be tolerated to have their say, but they certainly shouldn’t be allowed to disrupt an event of such great national and international importance.
I’m pleased that the visit and talks turned out so well, with outcomes that will deliver great benefits to Taiwan’s economy, its international standing, and the vast majority of its citizens. No wonder it has all been so warmly welcomed by the US, the EU, and other members of the international community.
I’m glad that those protesters, representing a small minority of Taiwanese public opinion (which overwhelmingly supports these talks and the current rapprochement across the Taiwan Strait), for the most part expressed their views peacefully and did not engage in the kind of violence we see so often on our televisions in other parts of the world.
So congratulations to the Taiwanese of all political colours and stripes: You have come out of this with shining colours and cause for satisfaction all round.
[quote]Enemy? Dude, this isn’t a war and going around calling the police pigs isn’t exactly going to get you any favours. Take a chill pill as this kind of violence isn’t going to solve anything.
[/quote]
I have always considered the Chinese government MY enemy, well before I moved to this country and now that I have a child here that has 700 missles pointed in his direction the red fucks are even more my enemy. And as for calling the pigs “pigs”… That is what they are to me… My brother, who is a cop and my best friend, who is a DEA agent, both have to deal with me constantly referring to them as a pig. I guess it is an American thing, you just wouldn’t understand!
Well you should get out and see the protests for yourself instead of watching the shit on TV. You would then know that this is exactly why they are protesting.
Exact opposite of my SO… Maybe you should take her out and show her that what is shown on TV is the extreme and was not a common occurance at any of the four protests I attended this week.
I missed the part where the protesters snipped the wires and broke through the barricades so I cannot comment on that and when I arrived at the area around NTU all I saw was a handful of a-bei’s beating on the shields. After that calmed down I headed to the protests at the bridge where I expected to see violence, but while I was there the only violence I saw was water bottles being chunked at the fully-armoured pigs. At one point a couple of protesters pulled down one of the barricades and I shit-you-not within 15 minutes a group of guys picked it back up and set it back in place so no one would get hurt.
When I left at 10:30 it seemed the majority of the protesters were dispersing so I agree with your observations that the violence was done by a select few who were up to no good.
Overall this week I attended four different protests, and I was very very proud to be involved. I took hundreds of pics these past few days and they pretty much mirror yours MM. And I will repeat again, if these situations happened in our countries, the violence seen here would be minor compared to what we would have seen at home.
[quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“Mer”]Watching the news this afternoon, my wife and I were thinking along much the same line as you LostSwede.
One thing is clear, Taiwanese still have yet to embrace or understand the concept of peaceful protest.[/quote]
Fine for you to say. Perhaps you don’t care as it’s not your country that might get sold down the river? [/quote]
Of course I care. I just don’t share the same views as you on the current administration and these meetings with China. You’re not going to get any mileage out of me on the theory that the Ma and the KMT are selling Taiwan out to China, or that Taiwan’s sovereignty is threatened by these meetings.
All the talk of riot cops and barbed wire etc sent me into my photo archives. And what I found was photos showing the same things from the time CSB was in power. Barbed wire, riot cops in full battle gear, security perimeters etc.
It seems a bit hypocritical to complain of it now that the KMT is in power when there were no mentions of the same thing from the time of the DPP.
[quote]All the talk of riot cops and barbed wire etc sent me into my photo archives. And what I found was photos showing the same things from the time CSB was in power. Barbed wire, riot cops in full battle gear, security perimeters etc.
It seems a bit hypocritical to complain of it now that the KMT is in power when there were no mentions of the same thing from the time of the DPP.[/quote]
That is VERY misleading. Anyone who saw protests during the CSB era will know that the police presence was MUCH smaller at the time. I attended the (anti) Anti Secession Law protests and went to look at the ‘red sheep’ anti-CSB protests and the smaller demonstrations when they changed the sign at CKS (Democracy) Memorial Hall.
During CSB’s reign there were much much less police at protests. During the anti-CSB protests police stood by while they were going way past their protest deadlines, and on occasion beating up reporters and green supporters. When they changed the sign at CKS Hall, I personally saw several old fogeys attacking a student on a bicycle, and then later that day a KMT goon ran over a reporter with his truck.
The visible security - police and barricades - was really significantly less at that time than during protests under the KMT before 2000 and again now.
[quote=“Bu Lai En”][quote]All the talk of riot cops and barbed wire etc sent me into my photo archives. And what I found was photos showing the same things from the time CSB was in power. Barbed wire, riot cops in full battle gear, security perimeters etc.
It seems a bit hypocritical to complain of it now that the KMT is in power when there were no mentions of the same thing from the time of the DPP.[/quote]
That is VERY misleading. Anyone who saw protests during the CSB era will know that the police presence was MUCH smaller at the time. I attended the (anti) Anti Secession Law protests and went to look at the ‘red sheep’ anti-CSB protests and the smaller demonstrations when they changed the sign at CKS (Democracy) Memorial Hall.
During CSB’s reign there were much much less police at protests. During the anti-CSB protests police stood by while they were going way past their protest deadlines, and on occasion beating up reporters and green supporters. When they changed the sign at CKS Hall, I personally saw several old fogeys attacking a student on a bicycle, and then later that day a KMT goon ran over a reporter with his truck.
The visible security - police and barricades - was really significantly less at that time than during protests under the KMT before 2000 and again now.[/quote]
Ah, not true. Here’s just one instance from Shih Ming-te’s protest.
No. It’s because Chen didn’t have the money to pay for the policing, having salted it away in the Cayman Islands.[/quote]Well, the money was slated for foreign policy activities - and the Cayman Islands is one of our staunchest allies aren’t they?? The money was intended for the Cayman Islands Civic Welfare Fund account but due to an accounting oversight as innocent as the TVBS control room accidentally live mic’ing their staff cursing A-bian, ended up in A-bian’s second cousin’s checking account. It’s a perfect example of why those impoverished island nations need financial assistance in the first place.
Well, that puts the cop to protestor ratio at 1:100. Yesterday is was 1:15, to 1:30. Three to six times higher.
I also don’t recal the barricades starting on the west side of Zhongshan Rd and going east all the way to Taoyuan.
Of course police are necessary in any protest, and when a crowd wants to protest at the pres building barricades are necessary. But they shouldn’t cover 4km square. That’s excessive. Looking at the map and tracing my walk yesterday it looks like they were stopping people from getting within 1 to 1.5km of the presidential building.
[quote]Ah, not true. Here’s just one instance from Shih Ming-te’s protest.
Quote:
Some 15,000 police and security officers were mobilised to maintain order and barbed wire barricades prevented protesters from approaching the presidential complex.[/quote]
That was a much bigger protest. 1.5 million people. I don’t think I saw that one, but the ones I saw the number of police, barricades etc PER PERSON were hugely less than the protests this week. And I never heard of police at that time confiscating flags, detaining people, beating up protestors, searching hotels, restaurants and shops etc.
Now you can argue the details, but my main point is that there was police overkill at protests this week, and I think it’s very misleading of you to say that the same thing happened under CSB. It was MUCH more low-key.
When you’ve got the leader of the DPP saying she cannot guarantee the protests will be peaceful or legal, of course you’re going to get a large response from the police. Just look at what happened in Tainan when there were no police.
A much better idea would have been for the DPP to organise a mass sit-in where everyone taped their mouths shut to symbolise the lack of free speech. A completely silent protest would have sent a much stronger and more powerful message, as well as eliminated all violence.
Oh, I saw some of those… and reporters around it saying that nothing was happening, so they were packing… I put a picture of kids in a sit-in protest… no tv cameras in a 2 km radius… no action=no news…
And the FLG had about 100 members practicing at ZhongShang North Road, close to the Taipei Fine Arts museum, 30 meters away from the barricades… did you see that on the news?
Just one question, did ANYONE watch the news last night?
No, it wasn’t what “they wanted you to see” as the same stuff was shown on all channels, be it the pro DPP or pro KMT news channels.
I wasn’t talking about the stuff that happened earlier in the day, as that seemed mostly peaceful apart from some police officer who got hit in the face by something someone threw at him, which is fairly minor.
But I guess none of what happened later on counts, so why even bother trying to talk to you people, as you’re so sure that what anyone that is of a different opinion than you are wrong.
This isn’t a matter of my opinion about what Taiwan is, it’s a matter of me not liking crazy riots.
As far as I’m concerned, Taiwan is and has always been a country. I don’t like the way a lot of things are done here, but it’s highly unlikely that any of us foreigners here can do anything about bringing about a change here.
It doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t want to see it happen, but it’s not up to us, after all, despite us living here, we’re not considered part of the nation.
And I have a feeling that if some people in the DPP got their way, we’d be on our merry way by now, but that’s just my opinion.
Mr Boogie - No news because there were only a few and others were fighting the police elsewhere. 100 000 protesters sitting in peaceful silence would be newsworthy.
Although that would require some leadership which no politician in Taiwan is capable of.