Well dude, if you can tell me how to change a thread title once someone has responded to the thread, I’d be real grateful. Far as I know, a mod has to do it.
[quote=“TC”]Vay -
SOP is the guy was marked as a “Class 4 - Ineligible for reenlistment” due to his bringing back the pistol from Iraq. A pistol is a weapon. A weapon is a controlled item according to the military. Your Grandfathers nazi jacket is completely irrelevant to this situation - but thanks for trying to change the context. [/quote]
You sure do fling accusations real easy man. I wasn’t trying to “change the context”. How many frickin’ military guys take souvenirs from combat? My grandfather’s JACKET was just an example of one of those. The fact that “regulations” differentiate between my case and yours doesn’t make a shite bit of difference. You think guys who risk their frickin’ necks care a whole hell of lot about regulations like the one you’re quoting??? You ever see “Band of Brothers”? (Given your bent, I can imagine you have.) Remember the guy who wanted SO BAD to get a Luger? Was he a jerkwad?
[quote]As to his background - it is very relevant to his actions as a tool for the IVAW group. He is just another tool used to preach class division and ‘class/political separation’…kinda like You Vay when you consistently refer to anyone dis-agreeing with you or calling you on your tabloid headlines as from the eeevvviiillll “Right.”
He’s a jerkwad for being used as a tool by this group, IVAW, and for his preaching this bs, IMO. [/quote]
Oh yeah, TC, anyone who hates the way the ideals of our country have been RUN INTO THE GROUND over the last eight years is “a tool”. Hilarious. No chance the guy like, has strong convictions or anything. Nah. We’re all just closet commies waiting for the chance to pull out a Che poster, put on some reggae and smoke up while we conduct a druidic ritual as we un-knowing work the will of our evil puppet-masters until they do us in like the “useful idiots” that Russian guy you posted about described.
As for “evil rightists”, mmm, well, yes I do think Rove, Cheney, Rupert Murdoch, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and Pat Robertson are “evil” as I would define it. Bush I would describe as simply arrogant and willfully close-minded – although as far as deceptiveness goes, he has certainly had his moments. Stating that Gonzales’ testimony before Congress – with its something like 47 'I can’t remember’s – reaffirmed his confidence in the man, or calling Cheney’s week-late statement about the (drunken) shooting of his friend “truly powerful” are two that pop to mind. OR that he “hadn’t been warned” about Katrina…
ANYWAY, as for you, no, I don’t get the sense that you’re “evil” per se – just blindly loyal and hence readily succeptible to misguidance.
[quote]Oh, and Vay…where did you get the ‘Dishonorable Discharge’ attribute from? Everything I’ve read so far looks towards a ‘General Discharge’ (less than Honorable) downgrade for this guys actions.
Poetic license, eh?[/quote]
Oh, Jesus God, you caught me. Well, sorry, but the quote I posted from the blog at the beginning of this thread does say “dishonorable discharge”. The actual news article I linked to below the blog says “less than honorable discharge”. Pardon the hell out of me for not knowing they were distinct. (I must be a mindless marionette of the Ivory Tower Elite, who, as asserted by another Forumosan, lacks critical reading skills to boot! Or are you going to go the route you usually do and call me a liar again?)
However, far as I can see, you are still just carefully dancing around the primary issue here: we have a SOLDIER (not a butt-ugly tie-dye-wearing mother with an annoying voice) who FOUGHT in IRAQ, and he’s outspoken against the war.
Bringing up his class background and his “souvenir” are exactly what you guys do EVERY time there’s someone who might bring the public’s attention to the fact that there are BRAVE, SELF-SACRIFICING PATRIOTS (not self-centered spoiled counter-culture elitists) who are opposed to what’s been happening in this country. When someone like this shows up - someone who puts another rent in the spell you guys have had the people under - your first question is All right, what have we GOT on this guy? How very Karl Rove of you.
The question is not CAN the military do what they did - obviously the can - the question is SHOULD they. It’s AMERICA, for Chrisssake!
And incidentally, besides being “a tool” of some manipulative commie mind-control organization, perhaps HERE’S the reason this man is against the war:
[quote]On April 29, a Delta Company patrol was responding to a tip at Al Sadr mosque, a short distance from its base. The soldiers saw men in the distance erecting barricades that they set ablaze, and the streets emptied out quickly. Then a militia, believed to be the Mahdi Army, began firing at them from rooftops and windows.
Sgt. Kevin O’Flarity, a squad leader, jumped into his Humvee to join his fellow soldiers, racing through abandoned Iraqi Army and police checkpoints to the battle site.
He and his squad maneuvered their Humvees through alleyways and side streets, firing back at an estimated 60 insurgents during a gun battle that raged for two and a half hours. A rocket-propelled grenade glanced off Sergeant O’Flarity’s Humvee, failing to penetrate.
When the battle was over, Delta Company learned that among the enemy dead were at least two Iraqi Army soldiers that American forces had helped train and arm.
[b]Captain Rogers admits, “The 29th was a watershed moment in a negative sense, because the Iraqi Army would not fight with us,” adding, “Some actually picked up weapons and fought against us.”
The battle changed the attitude among his soldiers toward the war, he said. “Before that fight, there were a few true believers.” Captain Rogers said. “After the 29th, I don’t think you’ll find a true believer in this unit.[/b] They’re paratroopers. There’s no question they’ll fulfill their mission. But they’re fighting now for pride in their unit, professionalism, loyalty to their fellow soldier and chain of command.”
To Sergeant O’Flarity, the Iraqi security forces are militias beholden to local leaders, not the Iraqi government. “Half of the Iraqi security forces are insurgents,” he said.
As for his views on the war, [b]Sergeant O’Flarity said, “I don’t believe we should be here in the middle of a civil war.”
“We’ve all lost friends over here,” he said. “Most of us don’t know what we’re fighting for anymore. We’re serving our country and friends, but the only reason we go out every day is for each other.”
“I don’t want any more of my guys to get hurt or die,” he continued. “If it was something I felt righteous about, maybe. But for this country and this conflict, no, it’s not worth it.”[/b] [/quote]
As Allies turn Foe, Disillusion Rises in some GI’s
