[quote=“Vay”][quote=“TC”]Vay -
SOP is the guy was marked as a “Class 4 - Ineligible for reenlistment” due to his bringing back the pistol from Iraq. A pistol is a weapon. A weapon is a controlled item according to the military. Your Grandfathers nazi jacket is completely irrelevant to this situation - but thanks for trying to change the context. [/quote]
You sure do fling accusations real easy man. I wasn’t trying to “change the context”. How many frickin’ military guys take souvenirs from combat? My grandfather’s JACKET was just an example of one of those. The fact that “regulations” differentiate between my case and yours doesn’t make a shite bit of difference. You think guys who risk their frickin’ necks care a whole hell of lot about regulations like the one you’re quoting??? You ever see “Band of Brothers”? (Given your bent, I can imagine you have.) Remember the guy who wanted SO BAD to get a Luger? Was he a jerkwad?[/quote]Tsk tsk tsk…such hostiity!
Re:'Band of Brothers - I’ve probably watched some of it, it focused on a group I’m familiar with…I do not remember the “Luger” incident. “Given your bent” - WTF is that supposed to mean? You are them one mentioning the show…wise up.
War trophies are nothing new…guys diss-assembled and shipped home weapons fron VN…nothing new. But Kokus(sp?) was caught doing this. It may be strange to you, but the military takes its rules quite seriously. If all this guy got was an Art 15 and reduction in rank for this, frankly he got off light. Given the climate, he could have easily been looking at a year or so in a Navy brig for this…along with a DD.
AGAIN VAY…the “jerkwad” comment was in regards to his acting as a stupid tool while wearing his BDU’s. Nice try again on context change.
[quote=“Vay”][quote="tainancowboy]As to his background - it is very relevant to his actions as a tool for the IVAW group. He is just another tool used to preach class division and ‘class/political separation’…kinda like You Vay when you consistently refer to anyone dis-agreeing with you or calling you on your tabloid headlines as from the eeevvviiillll “Right.”
[quote=“Vay”]Oh yeah, TC, anyone who hates the way the ideals of our country have been RUN INTO THE GROUND over the last eight years is “a tool”. Hilarious. No chance the guy like, has strong convictions or anything. Nah. We’re all just closet commies waiting for the chance to pull out a Che poster, put on some reggae and smoke up while we conduct a druidic ritual as we un-knowing work the will of our evil puppet-masters until they do us in like the “useful idiots” that Russian guy you posted about described.
As for “evil rightists”, mmm, well, yes I do think Rove, Cheney, Rupert Murdoch, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and Pat Robertson are “evil” as I would define it. Bush blah blah bah…SSDD…"
ANYWAY, as for you, no, I don’t get the sense that you’re “evil” per se – just
blindly loyal and hence readily succeptible to misguidance.[/quote]You’re a real piece of work there Vay…a real piece of work kid.
[quote=“Vay”][quote]Oh, and Vay…where did you get the ‘Dishonorable Discharge’ attribute from? Everything I’ve read so far looks towards a ‘General Discharge’ (less than Honorable) downgrade for this guys actions.
Poetic license, eh?[/quote][quote=“Vay”]Oh, Jesus God, you caught me. Well, sorry, but the quote I posted from the blog at the beginning of this thread does say “dishonorable discharge”. The actual news article I linked to below the blog says “less than honorable discharge”. Pardon the hell out of me for not knowing they were distinct. (I must be a mindless marionette of the Ivory Tower Elite, who, as asserted by another Forumosan, lacks critical reading skills to boot! Or are you going to go the route you usually do and call me a liar again?)[/quote]DId I actually do that? Quite unlike me to do something like that…can you show me the actual quote where I called you a “liar”? Its always good to check the validity of the sources you quote…especially when you’re going to use them in such an aggressive manner. Oh, and a simple…“Sorry…my bad” would have been a perfectly acceptable apology. It is a rather technical detail that someone with little to no experience with the military system probably would not be aware of.
And do please knock-of the ‘VICTIM’ crap Vay…I offered the clarification of discharge status as a POI for the article…not trying to make points against you.[quote=“Vay”]However, far as I can see, you are still just carefully dancing around the primary issue here: we have a SOLDIER (not a butt-ugly tie-dye-wearing mother with an annoying voice) who FOUGHT in IRAQ, and he’s outspoken against the war.[/quote]I [i]have mentioned a possible "freedom of speech issue’…or do you just not care to acknowledge that fact?[quote=“Vay”]Bringing up his class background and his “souvenir” are exactly what you guys do EVERY time there’s someone who might bring the public’s attention to the fact that there are BRAVE, SELF-SACRIFICING PATRIOTS (not self-centered spoiled counter-culture elitists) who are opposed to what’s been happening in this country. When someone like this shows up - someone who puts another rent in the spell you guys have had the people under - your first question is All right, what have we GOT on this guy? How very Karl Rove of you.[/quote]“…you guys do…”…getting a bit paranoid there Vay? Seeing things in your peripheral vision? Hearing clicks on your telephone?
[quote=“Vay”]The question is not CAN the military do what they did - obviously the can - the question is SHOULD they. It’s America, for Chrisssake![/quote][/quote][/quote]No Vay…the question here is what the rule of law says. So you don’t like the law? Tuff noogies…it still applies.
This case is not an easy one and it remains to be seen what the outcome will be. Will he be covered and prosecuted under the UCMJ? At this point probably so.
Will he have his discharge status changed to General (less than honorable status)" I don’t know. I personally think he’s just a dumb schmuck who got caught up in something and didn’t stop to think of the consequences of his actions. It happens. Should he be stigmatized for the rest of his life for this bit of stupidness…IMO…no, he should not.
Should there be a penalty imposed on him for his actions…Yeah…there should. I ain’t Solomon and am not sitting on his tribunal…so its not in my pay grade to decide what to do to him.
Try taking the dramatics and BS out of your responses and look at this in a sincere manner. It better for your liver.
And no, he didn’t remove his name tag - its embroidered on…and here is what his uniform looked like:
civiliangunner.com/MARPAT/im … go_jpg.jpg
Oh, and Vay…I’m from the USA…we say ‘shit’…not that other word that sounds like a lady sneezing. Where you from?