Any Cutters?

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]There are far more socially acceptable options for males to vent aggression than females.

HG[/quote]

Took me awhile to understand what you were responding to. I was too vauge.

When I said this :

I was responding to this part of your quote:

[quote][color=darkred]I think internalising rage is a lot more common in this part of the world, [/color]

HG[/quote]

Cheers for your candour, Bodo.

Sounds to me like you diid the right thing getting the hell out of Dodge!

And agree, compassion in all matters!

HG

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
Ultimately though, slicing and self abuse is an extreme act of manipulation - a scar is after all an external manifestion, it is there for others to see. It requires some form of intervention to bring the stakes down. One way to do this is to up the ante. So you’re disturbed eh? Fine, this is how society prevents disturbed people from hurting themselves and others. Your rights will be returned when you have shown the maturity to handle them. We are doing this because we care.

HG[/quote]

That interpretation only holds if there is anyone who notices and somebody to give a fuck what you do. Why do people do it when no does actually ‘care’? Most people don’t; they are grossed out and disgusted.

That was the voice of Nurse Ratchett opening the admission unit door and ushering the youngster into her new digs.

I think, as most often these are young girls doing this, it is quite often the parents that discover it. “Don’t do that to yourself you silly girl” rarely achieves anything but further brinkmanship, in my experience. It is a frustrating and wearying game. Not too dissimilar to dealing with eating disorders.

I have to admit though, my experience of this, aside from seeing the scarred up survivors many years down the track, has been in an institutional setting where the behaviour is a key reason for the presence of the person concerned. When it is your responsibility to stop someone hurting themselves your take on it becomes icy at best.

HG

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]That was the voice of Nurse Ratchett opening the admission unit door and ushering the youngster into her new digs.

I think, as most often these are young girls doing this, it is quite often the parents that discover it. “Don’t do that to yourself you silly girl” rarely achieves anything but further brinkmanship, in my experience. It is a frustrating and wearying game. Not too dissimilar to dealing with eating disorders.

I have to admit though, my experience of this, aside from seeing the scarred up survivors many years down the track, has been in an institutional setting where the behaviour is a key reason for the presence of the person concerned. When it is your responsibility to stop someone hurting themselves your take on it becomes icy at best.

HG[/quote]

I guess, I wasn’t criticising. I was a psychiatrist’s secretary for a short time. The girls on the ward were the most punchable individuals ever. But people in hospitals are the ones who get taken care of, though. I would guess that most have to deal with it themselves.

Maybe it’s the nature of any job where you work with people. They just fall into groups and some of those groups are going to get on your ***s. Like the 11000th exam student who comes to ask after class at 9.30 and asks how to improve her reading score (it’s always women, it shames me to say) then after hearing the advice says ‘I don’t have time to read more’

[quote=“Buttercup”]I guess, I wasn’t criticising. I was a psychiatrist’s secretary for a short time. The girls on the ward were the most punchable individuals ever. But people in hospitals are the ones who get taken care of, though. I would guess that most have to deal with it themselves.

Maybe it’s the nature of any job where you work with people. They just fall into groups and some of those groups are going to get on your ***s. Like the 11000th exam student who comes to ask after class at 9.30 and asks how to improve her reading score (it’s always women, it shames me to say) then after hearing the advice says ‘I don’t have time to read more’[/quote]

I hear you and you have my sympathies.

As for getting better for being in hospital. When I was younger I believed in rooting out causes, that psychotherapy and Gestalt, for example, were all part of a necessary process of working through issues and bringing demons into the light of day where they could be dealt with, safely. After witnessing the endless roundabout of crap coffee in styrofoam cups, cheap institutional furnishings and droning middle class pricks and their faux concern, I’ve found myself in the “best just pull up your socks and struggle on” camp.

I also see this reflected in modern psychiatry where the first order of the day for what was once called neurosis - and now more broadly “borderline personality disorder” (which is in itself a shorthand for “proper c*nt”) - is medication, usually anti-depressants and followed by reading the riot act.

The evolution of borderline personality disorders is a psychiatric classic. There must be reems of debate about it, but I have certainly missed it. Oh, here’s a snippet.

I’d love to know how Bodo climbed out of her situation. However, Bodo, if you’d rather not expand on this further I do understand. You, and many others, have been more than generous on this issue.

As for you Buttercup, when your friend OD’d, was that your wake up call?

HG

I think cutting is a way healthier coping mechanism than drinking or smoking, at least. It doesn’t solve the problem, but if it helps somebody, then what is wrong with it?
I’ve always been attracted to cutters, and a whole bunch of my ex-lovers have been cutters. However, my reason is more selfish, I guess. I enjoy cutting others, and who better to hang around with then? But then, I don’t feel like I have to cut somebody to get excited. It’s just a fun thing to do.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]As for you Buttercup, when your friend OD’d, was that your wake up call?
[/quote]

Yes and no. It made me realise I had to get away from where I was, so I did A-levels and applied to university. I was so excited and blissfully happy for the first couple of years (Living in a nice place, new friends, all that) then I had a major meltdown.

This set a pattern: escape, fun, meltdown which has gone on until I decided Taiwan wasn’t going to be just another stage and tried to put down roots, stick at stuff and not run away when I got the urge.

The difficult thing is to decide whether you are evolving (ew, I can’t believe I used that word!) or running away.

Therapy is foul.

I was wondering when this topic would come up in this forum. I dated a cutter for a while and for her it was certainly about attention and nothing else. But then she was the most batshit crazy woman I have ever met in my life - unfortunately her true self didn’t come out until like four months into the relationship. Of course people cut themselves for all sorts of reasons and I think it’s something that’s seldom understood, so I’m not talking about the type of condition many of you discussed. I’m talking about the type of girl who attacks her arm with a razer blade, snaps a picture of the damage and posts it up as her myspace profile pic.

For some reason the escalation would often start in an MSN chat. She’d say something like “Everyone treats me bad. No one respects me. I do everything for everyone but they crap all over me.” Then I’d say, “That’s not true…” Then we’d argue because I got tired of her trying to a be a martyr all of the time; she’d accuse me of being against her and eventually she’d start sending pics of her blood all splattered over the keyboard and tell me she was going to jump out the window because I made her do it. I’d try to calm her down and profusely apologize and finally end up taking a taxi to her place at 4am to stand outside her window to try to talk her out of it.

Then I would tell her it was over, she’d show up at my house at 6am and wait the next four hours for me to emerge. When I finally did, she’d give me gifts and tell me she’d never do it again. After that it would be smooth for a few weeks, then she’d accuse me of secretly dating a girl who lived 4000 miles away - we’d argue, she’d threaten to beat me up, then the self mutilation, the sending of pics, I’d beg for forgiveness, then she’d beg for forgiveness, she promises to get therapy, repeat.

Then we’d be arguing on the phone because she wanted to design a logo for a project I was doing and the people involved had chosen a different logo (not hers). Escalation, ecalation then “I’m going to throw myself out this window right NOW!!!” Little brother gets on the phone and tells me to f$ck myself. Ties severed, more begging for forgiveness and lots of guilt.

Flash forward to my brother’s wedding in the US (which she guilted me into taking her to) - she refuses to eat for days and won’t accept any food my family gives her telling them I won’t let her eat because I said she was “too fat.” Oh, and she can’t anything but vegetables and rice and it has to be “Taiwanese rice,” nothing else. She gets pissed because I’m the best man and paying more attention to my family than her and she has some sort of freaky seizure which draws a crowd of all my backwoods family members to gawk at the nutsy TW girl twitching on the floor. I clear a path and tell everyone to go about their business. Without an audience she brushes herself off and later tells me it was just a condition she had that she had never told me about and that she took some meds and was fine.

Then on the way home we stop at a gas station and the woman behind the counter accuses her of stealing gas the day before because apparently another Asian woman drove off without paying. I tell her she’s full of shite and we leave. When we get outside my gf tells me I’m a sorry excuse for a bf because I really let the cashier have it. And she starts ranting that the US is the most racist, discriminatory country on the planet and we all hate Asians. So I go back inside to prove my manhood only to realize there are two female cashiers - both are overweight, both wear glasses, and both have frizzy hair. I go back and tell my gf I must be guilty of being prejudice because I think all overweight redneck women look the same. Oh and on the way home we get into another senseless argument, I scream louder than I’ve ever screamed before and she opens the door while the car i going 60mph and threatens to throw herself out.

After secretly vowing to never ever speak to this woman again when we return to TW, I decide a trip to Boston might make things better because she tells me she hates my rural town and I know I’m stuck with her for the next two weeks. So we stay at a female friends house and everything is fine until she sees my friend and somehow decides that there is something going on between us. The next day, we go into town to eat, but she can’t take money out of an ATM because she has a TW ATM card and she can only take money out duing TW banking hours. I tell her it’s no problem, I’ll pay but then she gets mad at me because I do’t think it’s a big deal. So we go into a Chinese restaurant, she refuses to order so I order food I know she likes. She gets up and says she can’t afford it, making a nice little scene for the other patrons. Eventually I go out to the street to locate her, but she’s nowhere around so I say screw it and go back inside. Eventually she shows up and standing in the window with a sad pathetic look on her face with a cup of salad because she says that’s “all I can afford.” The expression was just gold and a perfect scene for the other patrons who could witness this heartless American sitting before an enormous spread (ample enough for TWO people) while his cast out TW gf stands in the window in the cold November air in a little skirt and bare arms, huddled around a &%$#@ salad because “he doesn’t want me to eat.”

So after several attempts to get her inside to eat with me, I wrap up the food and take her to see the sites of Boston. Along the way, I stop at the bus station to see if they found my notebook that lost. She accuses me of loving the notebook more than her and burst out in forced high-pitched giggles when they inform me it’s nowhere to be found. I tell her it’s the last straw and go home to change her ticket to leave the next day. I go back to my friend’s house, to call from there - she starts filming me with her video camera to show her friends back home - asking why I was kicking her out of America and asking if I’m a racist. I yell at her, she starts punching herself in the face and hitting her head on the wall. My friend comes home and gets caught up in the drama. I feel like the biggest tool for unleashing this on her home.

The next day, she wakes up early and says wants to go home. I tell her we have another four hours before the bus leaves. She leaves, comes back and starts ringing the doorbell repeatedly. I open the door to find her sticking her hand down her thoat and vomiting on the doorstep - she runs inside past my friend and her roommate to loudly puke in their bathroom. I apologize, go out to find her and she meets me at a construction site along the way and starts throwing rocks at me and calling me a “faggot.” As she stands there insulting me and cuffing me in the head at the bus, all the workmen guffaw and the people at the bustop stare uncomfortably. I finally lose it and tell her to get the *&^% out of my face. She begins bawling at the top of her lungs and sits down, the bus comes, I try to drag her on, but she makes a nice scene in front of the bus.

To make a long story short, she ran away from me saying she intended to sleep in the park, and I ran all over town looking for her. After going to TECO Boston to ask for advice, all the surly woman said was “oh, you teach English in TW? You must make a lot of money.” Ten hours later, I show up at my house back in Maine and she’s waiting for me smiling. She took an earlier bus back. The next day I drove her to the airport and made sure she got on the plane. She started an anti-andy blog all about how I had physically abused her and kicked her out of the US when she got back to TW, but it was all good. That day I was so elated that I drove ten miles in the wrong direction, but didn’t care - I was free!

So in conclusion, some cutters are just insane borderline personality nutters and there isn’t much you can do. Of course you also have to question the sod who dates these people. For me it was one of those abusive relationship deals - she could be incredibly sweet one minute and then evil and insane the next. You just think that you can somehow change her and only see the side you love. And I think I probably had sme kind of morbid curiosity of what totally insane thing she was gonna do next.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”][quote=“Buttercup”]I guess, I wasn’t criticising. I was a psychiatrist’s secretary for a short time. The girls on the ward were the most punchable individuals ever. But people in hospitals are the ones who get taken care of, though. I would guess that most have to deal with it themselves.

Maybe it’s the nature of any job where you work with people. They just fall into groups and some of those groups are going to get on your ***s. Like the 11000th exam student who comes to ask after class at 9.30 and asks how to improve her reading score (it’s always women, it shames me to say) then after hearing the advice says ‘I don’t have time to read more’[/quote]

I hear you and you have my sympathies.

As for getting better for being in hospital. When I was younger I believed in rooting out causes, that psychotherapy and Gestalt, for example, were all part of a necessary process of working through issues and bringing demons into the light of day where they could be dealt with, safely. After witnessing the endless roundabout of crap coffee in styrofoam cups, cheap institutional furnishings and droning middle class pricks and their faux concern, I’ve found myself in the “best just pull up your socks and struggle on” camp.

I also see this reflected in modern psychiatry where the first order of the day for what was once called neurosis - and now more broadly “borderline personality disorder” (which is in itself a shorthand for “proper c*nt”) - is medication, usually anti-depressants and followed by reading the riot act.

The evolution of borderline personality disorders is a psychiatric classic. There must be reems of debate about it, but I have certainly missed it. Oh, here’s a snippet.

I’d love to know how Bodo climbed out of her situation. However, Bodo, if you’d rather not expand on this further I do understand. You, and many others, have been more than generous on this issue.

As for you Buttercup, when your friend OD’d, was that your wake up call?

HG[/quote]
First, I hear you HGC about Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). Part of the diagnostic criteria for these folks is self-mutilation, but not all cutters have BPD. Yeah, BPD, everyone in the health field groans when they hear their patient has this diagnosis. Why? Because they are histrionic, they are manipulative, AND when they cut they do it so that others will notice, it is attention whoring when a BPD does it - out on a limb with the generalization of all BPDs there. But there you have it.

To your question regarding my depression, I started a new medication, and went to therapy. That flattened the low of the depression. Then I decided I hated my job, so I quit, and took a cross country trip in my jeep. From D.C. through Tennessee, Arkansas to Texas where my bro lives. Then, across Texas, New Mexico, Arizona to California (L.A.) to see my best friend. Then up the Pacific coast highway to San Fran to see my cousin, and another old friend. And, back East again.

I applied to grad school before leaving, and by the time I got back my acceptance letter was waiting. I started school. Have always loved that environment, and started feeling much better. After graduation, I stopped medication. It is inadvisable, but I hate taking pills. And, sometimes I feel like it not only blunts the lows, but also the highs that life brings. Therapy, I believe, can give one new tools with which to cope better and in more healthy ways with the stresses in life, and helps one understand not to turn negativity inward. This past year, I decided to lose weight and get fit again. And that has helped immensely in keeping me mentally healthy. Good friends and family support are also invaluable.

I am a high functioning mental case, and a productive member of society :laughing: :wink: .

Bodo

[quote=“AndyO”]I was wondering when this topic would come up in this forum. I dated a cutter for a while and for her it was certainly about attention and nothing else. But then she was the most batshit crazy woman I have ever met in my life - unfortunately her true self didn’t come out until like four months into the relationship. Of course people cut themselves for all sorts of reasons and I think it’s something that’s seldom understood, so I’m not talking about the type of condition many of you discussed. I’m talking about the type of girl who attacks her arm with a razer blade, snaps a picture of the damage and posts it up as her myspace profile pic.

For some reason the escalation would often start in an MSN chat. She’d say something like “Everyone treats me bad. No one respects me. I do everything for everyone but they crap all over me.” Then I’d say, “That’s not true…” Then we’d argue because I got tired of her trying to a be a martyr all of the time; she’d accuse me of being against her and eventually she’d start sending pics of her blood all splattered over the keyboard and tell me she was going to jump out the window because I made her do it. I’d try to calm her down and profusely apologize and finally end up taking a taxi to her place at 4am to stand outside her window to try to talk her out of it.

Then I would tell her it was over, she’d show up at my house at 6am and wait the next four hours for me to emerge. When I finally did, she’d give me gifts and tell me she’d never do it again. After that it would be smooth for a few weeks, then she’d accuse me of secretly dating a girl who lived 4000 miles away - we’d argue, she’d threaten to beat me up, then the self mutilation, the sending of pics, I’d beg for forgiveness, then she’d beg for forgiveness, she promises to get therapy, repeat.

snipped for abbreviation.[/quote]
AndyO,
My sincerest sympathies. What you have just described is a person with Borderline Personality Disorder. It SUCKS when you get caught up with them. I know myself from a bad experience. She seems really really normal. Very lively, intelligent and fun. Everyone likes her. But they can not handle intimate relationships. A key diagnostic criteria is that their personal (usually romantic) relationships are characterized by wild swings, and instability.

Bodo

Of course compassion is essential. But I feel there’s a line to be drawn between useful, practical compassion which actually stands a chance of helping someone, and the kind of pity/buying into someone’s destructive delusions that is not helpful. And that has a bearing on what HGC said here:

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]As for getting better for being in hospital. When I was younger I believed in rooting out causes, that psychotherapy and Gestalt, for example, were all part of a necessary process of working through issues and bringing demons into the light of day where they could be dealt with, safely. After witnessing the endless roundabout of crap coffee in styrofoam cups, cheap institutional furnishings and droning middle class pricks and their faux concern, I’ve found myself in the “best just pull up your socks and struggle on” camp.[/quote]I think some psychotherapy and searching for deep root causes of things can fall into the category of “buying into destructive delusions” that I mentioned above. At least it can be a bit of a waste of time. But I don’t agree that “just pull up your socks” is the best alternative.

Part of coming out of depression and destructive cycles is connected with finding joy and fulfillment in certain aspects of life; perhaps first in little things and then later in bigger things such as job, relationships, etc. And it can be incredibly helpful to have people to help with this process. It could be through some kind of professional “therapy” or just with a trusted friend who has deep compassion on the one hand but isn’t afraid to speak his/her mind and give an accurate perspective on the other hand. Of course, people have to get to the stage when they are ready to take this kind of thing in. But even before that stage, I think that it is very useful for sufferers to be able to talk to someone who does care but who isn’t freaked out by the suffering and can see beyond it.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]I have to admit though, my experience of this, aside from seeing the scarred up survivors many years down the track, has been in an institutional setting where the behaviour is a key reason for the presence of the person concerned. When it is your responsibility to stop someone hurting themselves your take on it becomes icy at best.[/quote]I respectfully submit that an icy take, while very understandable, may not be the most helpful one. (I’m talking about an ideal situation here. I know that the job of mental health professionals is very tough).

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]I think, as most often these are young girls doing this, it is quite often the parents that discover it. “Don’t do that to yourself you silly girl” rarely achieves anything but further brinkmanship, in my experience. It is a frustrating and wearying game. Not too dissimilar to dealing with eating disorders.[/quote]I think eating disorders can be a way for sufferers to exercise some control over their lives; a control that they feel they can’t get any other way. I guess self harm is the same. I agree that the common reactions of families can act to reinforce the behaviour in the way that you describe.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Ultimately though, slicing and self abuse is an extreme act of manipulation - a scar is after all an external manifestion, it is there for others to see. It requires some form of intervention to bring the stakes down. One way to do this is to up the ante. So you’re disturbed eh? Fine, this is how society prevents disturbed people from hurting themselves and others. Your rights will be returned when you have shown the maturity to handle them. We are doing this because we care.[/quote]I guess manipulation is another way of saying control.

Strong interventions such as sectioning can be helpful – firstly to stabilise the immediate physical situation (especially important in anorexia where the physical condition may have progressed to a very dangerous stage beyond the sufferer’s control), and secondly as a possible wake up call as you say. But it’s tricky. As the destructive behaviour stems from a sense of lack of control over life, taking away even more of the sufferer’s control could reinforce their belief that nothing they can do will change their situation. So for this reason, I agree with medication and even hospitalization where necessary, but it should really be accompanied by some kind of compassionate but pragmatic and realistic talking therapy/befriending.

Good post Joe Sax.
Just to clarify here. We have a discussion going on here that can be described in general as one dealing with mental health issues/diagnoses. There are at least three or four different diagnoses that are being touched upon: Self-mutilation disorder, Major Unipolar Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder, and Eating Disorders (i.e., anorexia, bulimia).

I have posted info regarding Self-Mutilation Disorder or cutting. While I don’t have personal experience with this, I do know of people who were cutters, and I have great love for them (my friends except the BPD bitch).

HGC has posted about his personal experience working as a mental health professional in an inpatient setting (got the setting correct, right?). My hat is off to you. It takes balls, and compassion, and insight to work with this population. I understand it when he talks about being or getting “icy.” It happens when you work with sick people all the time regardless of whether it’s a physical illness or mental.

I have/did share about my major unipolar depression (depression for short :slight_smile: ) in order to make a point about compassion and judgment. The medical professionals say that a combination of medication and therapy works best for this diagnosis. I would say those things have helped me in the past. I would rather do without medication, and just eat right and exercise and get therapy as needed. Which is what I am currently doing. I will not rule out medication in the future if I relapse. The fact of the matter is they don’t know exactly why medications like serotonin reuptake inhibitors, and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors work. It’s voodoo science right now. Not very confidence building when your shrink says “okay how do you feel? Do you think we need to increase your dose?” “Oh you’re not feeling any differently? Well, let’s try this drug then. Maybe it’ll work better for you.” . . . . ah I digress . . . .

Joe Sax and maybe someone else has brought up Eating disorders and indicated that the extreme cases need to be hospitalized and controlled some what to preserve life. But he seems to have qualms about too much compassion and too much medical intervention. He seems to be saying the ideal lies somewhere in the middle.

Bodo

[quote=“Bodo”]Good post Joe Sax. [/quote]Thanks.

[quote=“Bodo”]Just to clarify here. We have a discussion going on here that can be described in general as one dealing with mental health issues/diagnoses. There are at least three or four different diagnoses that are being touched upon: Self-mutilation disorder, Major Unipolar Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder, and Eating Disorders (i.e., anorexia, bulimia).[/quote]Right. We have gone on to more general discussion of mental health issues, and it’s important not to confuse things. However, I do think there are some connections between the different issues. HGC compared self-harm to eating disorders, and it does seem to me that there are some similarities. In my pop psychology way of thinking, both of these behaviours could be an attempt by sufferers to gain control over their lives when they feel powerless to effect any other, more positive changes. (Maybe depression can be a similar thing too sometimes – a kind of subconscious effort to gain some control over life).

[quote=“Bodo”]Joe Sax and maybe someone else has brought up Eating disorders and indicated that the extreme cases need to be hospitalized and controlled some what to preserve life. But he seems to have qualms about too much compassion and too much medical intervention. He seems to be saying the ideal lies somewhere in the middle.[/quote]I don’t think you can have too much compassion. But it is best if it is the more helpful kind of compassion. Not an attitude of “Poor you, life is terrible, I agree,” but rather something like “I understand that you’re feeling terrible right now, but I believe that you have the ability to pull yourself out of this. It won’t be easy and it will probably take some time, but it’s worth it, and when you do your life will be much richer, more joyful and satisfying.”

Of course these kinds of pep talks need to be in the right place at the right time. People don’t want to hear this stuff too often. There’s also a place for chatting about ordinary stuff and finding a little humour and interest in everyday things, even where the sufferer’s world is limited to the confines of a hospital ward.

As for medical intervention, especially involuntary intervention such as sectioning, that’s a really tricky issue. I don’t think there are any easy answers, and mental health professionals just need to make the best decisions they can, using their experience and also empirical data of what has been successful with others. The kinds of checklists and scales that are used now can be very useful. However, when mental health professionals are able to step back from the daily grind from time to time and remember that they are dealing with human beings, not numbers and cases, that’s really great. I think this is something that most of them do manage to do. As you say, hats off to them for doing a tough but really worthwhile job.

I apologise for smerfing but I am pretty shy about my ordeal, but feel I should be included here.

For me the trigger was a lot of things combined at once. I was 17 and
2 very close friends committed suicide the same week. A few months
later, my dream lady at the time agreed to go on a date with me on the
Friday. This would have been my first date… She contracted meningitis
that week and on the Thursday she was diagnosed as being brain
damaged, never walked again. I took all of this pretty well at the
time until…
A few months after that, my best friend’s woman claimed I had raped her.
Never happened of course, but I nearly got kicked out of school, I got
beaten up more times than i care to remember. Her story kept changing,so she was eventually caught out… but I
never got off the hook, as you know no smoke without fire. I also started to
believe that I was evil and that I had done it. I also deserved any punishment I could get. My head pretty much
exploded and I started taking far too much acid, vodka, getting into
fights and cutting. To give you an idea of how evil I thought I was…
I could argue at the time why it was me that caused WW2, some 30 years
before I was born.

Cutting felt good and was very addictive… I can remember the feeling
of “evil” escaping my body as I bled, very strange as out of context
knives were bad, in context they were a release. I managed to keep
this secret for months. I scraped into university but I kept doing it
in private and gravitated to burning my chest with cigs and deeper
cuts. One day I was caught out by a girl in my dorm. l had cut myself
pretty badly and she came in without knocking. At that point nobody
had seen my chest or arms for a while and she threw up.

My brother moved to my university town about three months into my 1st semester and had not seen me for a while. He didn’t recognise me as
I’d lost loads of weight and I was basically a shadow of what I was. He
says now that the day he took me the mental hospital was the hardest
day of his life and won’t talk about it. I stayed there for 3 weeks
and howled like a dog for the most part.

Fast forward a few months, I passed my first year, had lots of therapy
and started getting sorted. I wasn’t completely cured all through
university but no woman would touch me… took me a long time to trust women fully
. I still get very depressed, and its something I have to
watch, but I know how to deal with it now and know all the warning
signs.

It’s all done, now, DV. You don’t have to live according to the shit other people load on you. If you do, they’ve won. You can’t let some messed up, evil little bitch ruin your life.

I’m off my trolley, always have been, always will be. Do I care? Not really; it’s like being ugly, it affects other people more than me.

Depression is hard; but if you figure yourself out, you can learn to manage it yourself, as you said. We all know our own triggers. Accept yourself; you are better than you think. While most people with low self-esteem are right on target, some of us are SUPERCOOL and are still dealing with our teenage crap.

Oh, and drugs are bad, kids.

(Digression: Are our teenage obsessions into our 30’s a product of longer lifespans and more leisure time? I sometimes think I’d have been better off dropping sprogs at t’mill and dying at 40…)

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”] I’d love to know how Bodo climbed out of her situation. However, Bodo, if you’d rather not expand on this further I do understand. You, and many others, have been more than generous on this issue.

As for you Buttercup, when your friend OD’d, was that your wake up call?

HG[/quote]

This is a recent study done on anti-depressant treatments, study is called the STAR*D study. If you’re interested in depression, this is good info on treatment limits/options.

Bodo


freshpics.blogspot.com/2006/11/e … e-art.html

Forgive me dablindfrog… but how does that add to the debate? Everybody who has lived in Asia for longer than 5 minutes knows that the Japanese particularly like to play with social taboos.

Out of curiosity, why add those photos?

self infliction is a sign of obsessive compulsive disorder and needs to be treated. a few months on Zoloft and you’ll be as good as new. it makes the compulsions (i never had hurting myself compulsions, but other kind) seem smaller and insignificant. you can concentrate on important stuff and after a few months you won’t need it anymore. don’t suffer. everything has a pill now.