Anybody want to open their own school?

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
101

True that, but the other side of the coin is that they have made a decision to do something other than the mainstream. The personalities of the school played a part in that, but the principle has been established. You’re in with a chance and have something to build on.

My feeling at high school level is that there’s a general dissatisfaction with the test-oriented nature of education - even though the tests are still the primary goal. A lot of people are waking up to the idea that students need more. Why else do municipal high schools hire me to teach students how to do magic tricks or practise improvised comedy? The money doesn’t come from the school budget, parents pay extra for it.

Guy, you’re feeling jaded because you’ve spent years in the red oceans. Boutique schools and private classes offer you the opportunity to create blue oceans. I’m still not 100% of the way there, but I do believe it’s possible.

102

Maybe, as you said, your branch is different. The way we were told to do things in initial training, and the way things were done at my branch (which was the same as what we’d been told in initial training) was that you don’t fail kids. In fact, you don’t give them below a certain score. The results of that were that I inherited fairly high level classes where the students not only couldn’t speak coherently to me during the breaks, but some of them were clearly a couple of levels below the class they were in. I would write the marks students got on the tests I corrected and a week later, the markbooks would have been changed to a far higher score. This is/was a problem because the parents were basically being told their kids were at a certain level, when they clearly weren’t. The parents were certainly complicit to a certain extent, but Hess and some (many?) of its employees were the problem too.

103

[quote=“Fox”][quote]Fox: I think you’re right about getting 75 students. Probably the hardest part is getting them in the door in the first place, as tomthorne points out. Marketing is key there. Nice points about expanding a school. In some ways, it might be better to keep it at 75 students – you don’t make as much money, but you don’t have the logistical nightmares and the stress of wondering if other people will lead to a decline in quality.

You really think it would cost 2,000,000NT to set up a new school? One of the problems with buying a business though is that you buy its problems, especially if you don’t like the curriculum and so on. Still, it might be good to view it simply from the point of buying the license and what’s inside the school (rather than have to set all that up yourself), even if you have to then completely rebuild the student base.[/quote]

It is very very difficult to make 200000 out of a school on a pure profit basis, not impossible of course, and there will be plenty doing it, but you’d have to be running an exceptional school, very well organized in terms of keeping the quality of teachers up, student numbers in class buoyed, management etc. If you are teaching in a school that you own that might be possible, but you would still have to have your numbers up over a 110 to 20 with all the logistical problems I mentioned earlier. On a pure management basis with rent of around 50000 you’d need about 150 students if your average class size were 13.

At 75, you are not working so hard, can control the quality readily and expand a little whilst still keeping up the quality by running maybe one other Chinese English teacher or even different classes like math or science.

The 2 million mark comes from franchising schools in the 90’s but I think the number is still valid from what friends who’ve done it have told me.

If you buy a failing school, you get a core of students and as long as you are a good teacher the parents will respond positively, but you have to remember that every time a parent goes to an independent school, they are there for a reason. They have made a choice of this school over the omnipresent chain schools. So even if it is failing financially for the owner, the students are there because of that owner or there teachers. So you have to expect some drop off unless you hit the mark hard and well in the small window of opportunity you have to keep the students. Location is also an important factor in buying an old school.[/quote]

I really appreciate your comments, but I’m a little confused. In a previous post (or posts), you claimed/showed that a teacher working by himself (well, with one Taiwanese person doing the front of house work) could make 200,000NT/month profit with 75 students. Now are you saying that’s not the case?

104

True that, but the other side of the coin is that they have made a decision to do something other than the mainstream. The personalities of the school played a part in that, but the principle has been established. You’re in with a chance and have something to build on.

My feeling at high school level is that there’s a general dissatisfaction with the test-oriented nature of education - even though the tests are still the primary goal. A lot of people are waking up to the idea that students need more. Why else do municipal high schools hire me to teach students how to do magic tricks or practise improvised comedy? The money doesn’t come from the school budget, parents pay extra for it.

Guy, you’re feeling jaded because you’ve spent years in the red oceans. Boutique schools and private classes offer you the opportunity to create blue oceans. I’m still not 100% of the way there, but I do believe it’s possible.[/quote]

Yes, I think you’re right about that. I have ideas and I think I could (and would) be much more inspired in the blue ocean situation you described.

105

What Fox says about potential profit is correct. Our start up costs were considerably lower than that though, just under 800k.

106

What if you offer a school that is actually based on research into the way students learn English? It is also based off and in line with the prevailing developmental theories out there.

Would this be sell able to parents in Taiwan? I know it goes against most people’s thinking here, but I am convinced there is a minority that actually want something like this.

107

Well, from my experience here, it’s all about the kids enjoying the lessons, meaning having fun, while at the same time keeping the parents happy. Something between learning the language and partying. It never pays to be too strict or serious. We are just one of their teachers along the way with hopes of actually helping them improve. But some kids are nearly impossible to teach unless you let them screw around a bit first. We’ve had many people send us kids that were kicked out of the bushi’s for disciplinary reasons and man are they a hand full. I always need to negotiate with them so that they will do something like read or write.
Happy kids = happy parents= a happy school= stable income etc. I try to teach them as much as I can without any browbeating or too many rules. They love it and learn naturally from the environment and what’s cool is that they want too come back. As XinBiDe mentioned. Just my take on it. :sunglasses:

108

In my previous post, I was only assuming you were a single teacher in your own 75 student school. In that school you could make 200000 take home or a little more per month working less than 30hrs/week.

The pure profit basis is to have 150 students, a good manager, front office, aids and foreign teachers at 800nt/hr with low rent less than 50000. You could make 200000 a month without working (You’d be working of course because it would be impossible to get to that point without having exceptional people skills and understanding of the industry. You’d also be spending a lot of time simply protecting it, but on the other hand you’d be free to come and go as you please to some extent). You would have the space to repeat it. I suppose.

However, if you are a foreigner your long term plans might not include Taiwan or at least you’d like the flexibility. A school of any kind doesn’t offer you that and their asset value is very questionable, even very well managed ones. It is very difficult to find a buyer.

109

[quote]What if you offer a school that is actually based on research into the way students learn English? It is also based off and in line with the prevailing developmental theories out there.

Would this be sell able to parents in Taiwan? I know it goes against most people’s thinking here, but I am convinced there is a minority that actually want something like this.[/quote]

I often thought someone should open a school and call it the Dutch method. To my mind, they are the best speakers of English as a foreign language in the world.

110

In other words, it’s highly lucrative if you have a good location and you know what you’re doing. Excellent posts, Fox.

What do you attribute losing so many students to, Tom? Sounds like your school used to serve you well, but now with only 39 students and the same overhead, it’s pretty much a waste of your time. What happened if you don’t mind me asking?

marboulette

111

[quote=“Fox”]
I often thought someone should open a school and call it the Dutch method. To my mind, they are the best speakers of English as a foreign language in the world.[/quote]

Hmm. The method would involve acquiring Dutch as your native language either by a top-secret government program whereby your brain is formatted and all info replaced via a USB implant (premium pricescheme Bluetooth?), or by reincarnation, then learning English in the standard manner.

You could probably make up some pretty funny marketing stuff, though.

112

If I ever ask a Dutch person how they came to speak English so well, they always tell me from watching English TV. Never helped my Chinese much.

“Don’t Bogart my listening comprehension exercise,” is a common refrain heard mostly in the Dutch method classroom.

113

[quote=“Fox”]If I ever ask a Dutch person how they came to speak English so well, they always tell me from watching English TV. Never helped my Chinese much.

“Don’t Bogart my listening comprehension exercise,” is a common refrain heard mostly in the Dutch method classroom.[/quote]

There are lots of cognates there. If there’s just a mass of incomprehensible glob, it will take a long time for your brain to grab onto anything meaningful, for an English learner of Chinese. That’s plausible for a Dutch speaker.

I could understand a fair bit of Italian when I went to Italy recently because my french is OK. Couldn’t speak at all, but could understand.

114

[quote=“Fox”][quote]What if you offer a school that is actually based on research into the way students learn English? It is also based off and in line with the prevailing developmental theories out there.

Would this be sell able to parents in Taiwan? I know it goes against most people’s thinking here, but I am convinced there is a minority that actually want something like this.[/quote]

I often thought someone should open a school and call it the Dutch method. To my mind, they are the best speakers of English as a foreign language in the world.[/quote]

I’m actually looking to start one based off the Montessori method. I’ve spent the past few years putting together a system of foreign language learning that is based off the Montessori curriculum. I know it’s a headache, but I enjoy Taiwan enough to stay here and can’t stand normal teaching methods enough to try to branch out and do what I love.

I’m more worried about making a living doing what I love than I am the amount of work that goes into it. I’ll put my whole life into a job I love that sustains me rather than worrying about being rich.

115

[quote=“marboulette”]In other words, it’s highly lucrative if you have a good location and you know what you’re doing. Excellent posts, Fox.

What do you attribute losing so many students to, Tom? Sounds like your school used to serve you well, but now with only 39 students and the same overhead, it’s pretty much a waste of your time. What happened if you don’t mind me asking?

marboulette[/quote]

I got credit crunched.

When I started my school I’d already built up some good relationships with important people in companies. I knew that these companies provided a training allowance for their employees, but most of the employees didn’t bother to use it. If I could, through my contacts, convince these guys to study with me then I could make a lot of money. But I would need a bushiban license. So I started my own school and got around 70 students, predominantly adults. I didn’t really bother looking to attract children because I was making so much money. To be honest the only child classes I had I ran simply because I enjoy teaching kids. Children accounted for less than 10% of our revenue. The only drawback is most of the adult classes were privates and therefore I was working very long hours.

End of last year my two main clients cancelled their training budgets. Couldn’t blame them, it was either that or lay off staff. Their employees now had the choice of paying for English teaching themselves or giving up their classes. Adult numbers fell of a cliff.

In desperation we went all out trying to get kids. Adults had never been a problem. They would come to a lesson, enjoy it, pay and stay. They drove themselves to my school. If they had a problem they’d talk to me about it, and I’d fix it. They didn’t fight or argue with one another. They could see their English improve for themselves. There’s no need for bullshit with adults. Children proved to be a whole different ball game.

Bottom line is at the beginning of this year we had a dozen or so children, and we’ve managed to get that up to 39. If I hadn’t decided to close the school I reckon we’d have got up to around 50 for the September new intake. Even then we’d only be making 50-60k a month We haven’t had a decent holiday in almost 3 years and we just can’t be arsed with it anymore. I would really like my school to continue with me as a silent partner, but we haven’t been able to find anyone suitable/willing to take it on. It is a really big job and not for the faint hearted, and I’m not going to risk going in with anyone unless I’m really confident about them. Especially as I’m going to be out of the country until next June.

To give you an example of how hard it is; just today I saw a woman who lives in the apartment block next to my school walking her kid to Shephered (yes, that’s how they spell it) English School. She’d rather take her kid on a fifteen minute walk to a school that can’t even spell its own name correctly. She’s never walked through my front door. They just don’t know what’s good and what isn’t.

We could continue to bang away making very little money, hoping that the companies I used to deal with reintroduce their training allowance, but I’m getting on a bit now and I really want a break. I’ve got 2 million NT in the bank, and I’m going to do a masters, relax a little, then think again. I’ve realised that I’m more of a teacher than a salesman. When I see some of my lecturer friends relaxing into their 2 month summer vacations…

116

Thanks for the honest answer, Tom. Sounds like a big part of it was pretty much right out of your hands. You did really well for yourself for a while, there. Very few people I know managed to save that kind of money in Taiwan. Actually, I don’t know anyone who saved that much here. Well done, that man.

All the best on your next projects. :notworthy:

marboulette

117

Don’t have anything informative to add, but just want to say that I have enjoyed the thread. Special thanks to Fox and Tom. Threads like this really lift forumosa above the average forum.

118

Tomthorne,
I can completely empathize with your situation but am happy to hear that you managed to do some saving. As marboulette mentioned, most of us don’t. :wink: Yes, this is a tough market as people don’t know the difference between a good school and one that looks good for face. I think they often only consider the facility. Some even actually prefer local teachers or just a convenient location. Some don’t want to deal with foreigners. Strange mix here,eh?
I’m thinking it’s best to diversify by teaching adults and kids. I’ve primarily focused on adults with some kid or even baby groups.

119

Kids, primary school age, are the most reliable income stream and that is why they dominate the English bushiban market. The adult market is very fickle regardless of your teaching quality. Kids, on the other hand, are extremely reliable. They and their parents are dependent on them being on a regular schedule so once you prove to be a reliable service you can have the same customer for years. Adult clients are short term mostly, and much is done on a whim and results are very hard to quantify unlike with children who can sit a test once every three chapters.

120

That’s an interesting take on it Fox. So, I suppose your referring to the 2-4 year old age group. It does seem that many parents are trying to get them started early. Your right about the adults, they can be fickle and whimsical. I’ve been fortunate to keep some of them around fairly long term. But kids parents can be unstable also,right? I don’t no, different market segments often behave similarly. I do think that groups of little ones can stabilize a school when the rest of the students are coming and going. Something to consider for sure. Tks