Incomprehensible language/writing. Soulless people. No family or friends. No kids. No money. No prospects.Pollution. Noise. More noise. Even more effing noise! Too many people. Immature younger generation. Crass older generation. I won’t even mention the animals on the road.[/quote]
So you just stay for the meringue?[/quote]
:roflmao:
I suppose I should add something other than just a smiley.
The people in my neighbourhood are all awesome. I had a braai (bbq) at my house on Saturday arvy, and when the garbage truck came and I rushed out with my garbage bag. One of the “crass older generation” type ladies smiled and insisted on throwing my garbage away for me, so I could stay with my mates instead of waiting five minutes for the truck to get to our stop.
Imagine the nerve!
I never really warmed up to Taiwan coz it just isn’t convenient despite a zillion convenient stores. I love the people especially TW women. Old or young, they are really nice despite their warped fashion sense.
I am and will always be attached to my apartment. Its vibes, location, view, everything. I have seen better homes, swankier apartments, breath with breath taking views and yet this one was just right for us. I enjoyed every minute of my stay there, knowing it would go away. I got to see the skies, turtles, ducks, hills, water, all day. We shifted 2 weeks before my son was born. The husband opened the boxes and set the furniture within 2 days so I don’t feel overwhelmed. I snuggled with my 2 kiddos for 3 horrible winters there, had friends over, it was a labour of love. And somehow befitting that the land lord sold it and someone else will bring down the whole place to renew and start a new life there. Those walls, had a lot of our memories.
But bismarck, if I had to get around this place on a scooter, and if certain other things had turned out differently, my response to this thread might be more like grumpy’s.
Some of it’s a function of time. For my first several years here, I was not a terribly happy camper, and I didn’t even drive a scooter!
I think you’ve done duty on a naval vessel before, bismarck. I haven’t done much of that, just a couple of years on a tin can. For much of those two years, I sorta hated that joint. But I got ever-so-slightly misty-eyed crossing her brow for the last time. I’d gotten mostly used to that life, and there were even a few things I liked about it.
I doubt I’ll ever really get attached to Taiwan. there will be some things that I’ll miss and there will be some things that I’ll be very happy to get away from. I do expect to look back favorably on the 3? years that I spend here.
Most all of us demonize the places we have decided to dislike, and romanticize the places we have decided to like. About 80% of liking or disliking a place is in the mind of the individual.
Whichever side of the coin you fall on, you’ll will find plenty of evidence to support your suppositions.
But bismarck, if I had to get around this place on a scooter, and if certain other things had turned out differently, my response to this thread might be more like grumpy’s.
Some of it’s a function of time. For my first several years here, I was not a terribly happy camper, and I didn’t even drive a scooter!
I think you’ve done duty on a naval vessel before, bismarck. I haven’t done much of that, just a couple of years on a tin can. For much of those two years, I sorta hated that joint. But I got ever-so-slightly misty-eyed crossing her brow for the last time. I’d gotten mostly used to that life, and there were even a few things I liked about it.
Anyway, we’re all just types that keep repeating.[/quote]
Now you’ve gone and made me misty eyed! I miss the smaller boats the most, especially the Strike Craft and the Subs. Smallest galleys, but somehow still the best food. Awesome sailors.
As to scooters… I’ve been a scooter commuter ever since I moved here. Can’t imagine getting by without one. I thought they were a bit girly at first, but that was before I got my 150 SYM Fighter (fuel injection!). Woo hoo! :discodance:
But you’re right, things could have gone differently and I may have felt otherwise. However, in that case, I would probably have buggered off by now. Although, I guess not everyone has the freedom to “abandon ship” whenever they like, for whatever reason(s).
Don’t be so sure until you have actually lived in those countries.[/quote]
steelersman: Of course, though there are some things that are definitely better in other countries. The architecture in Taiwan is woeful compared to many other places. So are the traffic, respect for the environment, arts culture and pace of life. Unless you want to live in a very small town here (which will still have ugly architecture), you’re stuck in a hectic concrete jungle that is full on 24/7. I know people will say that Taipei has arts, though it’s still not on the level of many cities of comparable size. Outside of Taipei, it’s a cultural wasteland in the main.
I’ve largely made my peace with Taiwan, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s a great place to live. It’s not the worst place in the world, but it’s by no means the best either.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]It’s certainly not for the architecture, music/arts scene, ability to get out into beautiful nature unmarred by man or not have to fight off a billion other tourists there, amount of living space, and so on.
[/quote]
You’re in Taidong, aren’t you? I was down there last week shooting a story for an international magazine and there is a very vibrant music / arts scene in Dulan. It’s definitely worth checking out, the community there is a mixture of Amis, Taiwanese and foreign. There’s also some interesting architecture in the area - one of the stories I photographed (we did 2 at the same time) was a feature on one of the houses and architects in the area. It was definitely not your standard Taiwanese design.
[quote=“bismarck”] I miss the smaller boats the most, especially the Strike Craft and the Subs.[/quote] That reminds me: One time when we were pierside and had a day off, one of the guys came down to the berthing compartment and announced that we had it easy. I was like, “What the **** are you talking about?” He explained that he had just visited one of the subs (I guess they were the old diesel kind). He said it was so crowded that some of the guys on the sub had to roll their mattresses up and put them in the torpedo compartment (or whatever it’s actually called).
I was like, “I’m glad I ain’t on a sub.”
That’s part of the reason I listed the sub crew in Das Boot in the thread on movie tough guys: Toughest Movie Characters Ever
[quote=“bismarck”]As to scooters… I’ve been a scooter commuter ever since I moved here. Can’t imagine getting by without one. I thought they were a bit girly at first, but that was before I got my 150 SYM Fighter (fuel injection!). Woo hoo! :discodance:[/quote] I’m jealous, because I’m such a klutz that I’d probably be dead or badly injured by now if I’d gotten a scooter.
[quote=“bismarck”]But you’re right, things could have gone differently and I may have felt otherwise. However, in that case, I would probably have buggered off by now. Although, I guess not everyone has the freedom to “abandon ship” whenever they like, for whatever reason(s).[/quote] But you’re right too, though, to think that 'tude can play a big part in this thing, and it’s right to take the enjoyable stuff and enjoy it. I’ve had a 'tude problem wherever I’ve gone. Not proud of that, though–I’ve wasted a lot of time and energy on 'tude. Also, at my age, my 'tude bores even me. :snore:
Don’t be so sure until you have actually lived in those countries.[/quote]
steelersman: Of course, though there are some things that are definitely better in other countries. The architecture in Taiwan is woeful compared to many other places. So are the traffic, respect for the environment, arts culture and pace of life. Unless you want to live in a very small town here (which will still have ugly architecture), you’re stuck in a hectic concrete jungle that is full on 24/7. I know people will say that Taipei has arts, though it’s still not on the level of many cities of comparable size. Outside of Taipei, it’s a cultural wasteland in the main.
I’ve largely made my peace with Taiwan, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s a great place to live. It’s not the worst place in the world, but it’s by no means the best either.[/quote]
Taiwan has plenty of art and culture in the temples and associated gangs and also in it’s touring opera troupes. A lot of people are into comics and drawing comic characters and also web design and cosplay. It’s just not recognised as ‘high art’. I don’t think there’s much of a music culture here though (ok I forgot about the aboriginals whose music and songs are pretty awesome).
Don’t be so sure until you have actually lived in those countries.[/quote]
steelersman: Of course, though there are some things that are definitely better in other countries. The architecture in Taiwan is woeful compared to many other places. So are the traffic, respect for the environment, arts culture and pace of life. Unless you want to live in a very small town here (which will still have ugly architecture), you’re stuck in a hectic concrete jungle that is full on 24/7. I know people will say that Taipei has arts, though it’s still not on the level of many cities of comparable size. Outside of Taipei, it’s a cultural wasteland in the main.
I’ve largely made my peace with Taiwan, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s a great place to live. It’s not the worst place in the world, but it’s by no means the best either.[/quote]
Taiwan has plenty of art and culture in the temples and associated gangs and also in it’s touring opera troupes. A lot of people are into comics and drawing comic characters and also web design and cosplay. It’s just not recognised as ‘high art’. I don’t think there’s much of a music culture here though (ok I forgot about the aboriginals whose music and songs are pretty awesome).[/quote]
Don’t forget the palace museum which has the greatest collection of Chinese art anywhere. The fact we have this collection means we also get a lot of cool loans/swaps from other great museums. I’ve seen far more fantastic high art here in Taipei then I did in Vancouver.
You are very right though to stress that people need to shift there perspective and learn to appreciate what Taiwan has and not try to reproduce what they had back home. Tons of great folk art here.
cfimages: I am surprised at what there is down here (compared to Taoyuan City where I used to live), but I still think people are clutching at straws. Countries such as Turkey and the Czech Republic have really vibrant arts scenes and the people really live it. Maybe I just expect too much, coming from Melbourne. I’m going back there for a holiday next week, and one thing I am really looking forward to is being able to go out pretty much any night of the week and have my pick of excellent music in a dozen genres. The architecture, in the main, really gets to me here. There’s some really cool traditional architecture, but 99% of buildings I’ve seen in this country are a tribute to concrete and bathroom tiles, or just completely ramshackle. It depresses the shit out of me that they’re so uninspired and uninspiring and that the Taiwanese have gone to so little effort to really make Taiwan beautiful. I’m sure that back in the day, the countryside in Taiwan must have been staggeringly beautiful, and some parts still are, but there’s no sense of balance. Virtually anywhere that is even slightly accessible to people has been turned into a fucking eyesore. From the top of Tigerhead Mountain in Taoyuan, there’s an incredible view of Taoyuan County, or there would be if it didn’t include Taoyuan City or any other settlement, and if going up Tigerhead Mountain weren’t an assault course of vendors selling tacky, tatty shit and deep-fried gorilla scrota, people driving like freaking maniacs, large piles of rubbish, discarded furniture and other assorted crap, and packs 100-strong of feral dogs ready to chase you down (though we did get our dog from Tigerhead Mountain). Would anyone actually claim that any decent sized town or city in Taiwan is kind of beautiful? People always talk about Jiufen or Yingge, but I’m still not impressed, even as places that have been tarted up for tourism. In terms of tarted up for tourism, I think St Augustine in Florida, or Cesky Krumlov in the Czech Republic have it all over them. The Communists did a real number on a lot of Eastern Europe, but I don’t think there’s a single county in Taiwan that could even hold a candle to Bohemia. That place is sublime any time of the year.
I live in what should be a beautiful place, and the mountains and farms are, and yet still the river near here is murky, still my landlord and neighbours have turned the ravine behind our property into a giant dumping ground for plastic, foam, cardboard, parts of vehicles, old cupboards and so on, still people burn off God knows what such that two days ago an enormous cloud of smoke wafted over our school so that I couldn’t go outside my classroom without coughing, still people drive like complete arseholes at every time of day, even on the smallest roads, still there is a large pack of feral dogs that has attacked my wife and dog and that the local council won’t do anything about (even after we took our bleeding dog into the council offices to show them), and still almost every building around here is God awful in appearance (though there are a couple of farm houses here that are pretty cool), including the over the top hotels.
GiT - I’m amazed you put up with so much (of what obviously makes you very unhappy on a daily basis), for the sake of saving a few quid. I honestly couldn’t do it.
bismark: I also only tell the worst of it. As I have said though, it’s not the best place to live, but it’s also not the worst. I would like to live in a nicer looking environment, but I also enjoy indoor life. Likewise, I have a reasonable job (it’s not the best, but it’s not the worst, and it’s probably the right side of average), I save a reasonable amount of money, aside from the traffic it’s incredibly safe, and there’s a lot that’s modern and convenient about this place.
That said, if I were to get a better job (or at least one with more money and holidays) in the right place, then I would go. Probably in the middle of this year I will do a CELTA certificate so that I can really start down that path.
Saving a few quid is important. I don’t want my kids to struggle when I have them. I don’t want to struggle in old age either. If I were a teacher in Australia, there would be other issues also, but the cost of living would be a huge one. I’d feel like I were forever running on a treadmill, even if I were really careful with money. For the average person in many Western countries, there’s a looming poverty crisis when people reach that nexus between the government not being able to support people into increasing longevity and those people not having enough retirement savings. People of my generation, and even many in my parents’ generation, are going to be shocked shitless when their retirements are worse than the preceding generation. Screw that for a joke.
Ah, a few years ago I would have said yes without much hesitation. Now, well, not so much.
There’s a number of good things about Taiwan but there’s also a few negatives, as with any other place of course.
The health system is really affordable, convenient and relatively effective, the public transit is great, and public safety crime-wise is excellent, barring the odd suspicious political shooting or anti-China mob rowdiness… which even then is not as bad as other places or countries. Also, people are generally polite in public and I’ve hardly come across any rudeness.
The negatives - much of the public architecture, in regards to both the ubiquitous old drabby grey multilevel apartments and many of the new modern but pretentious
apartment buildings; the lack of sidewalks and the widespread amount of dog shat all over [in Taipei that is, maybe other cities and towns are much better] the existing sidewalks.
the tendency of some folks to be childish, whether it’s talking in fake high-pitched squeaky voices, gossiping like little schoolkids at work all the time, carrying around dogs like babies or pushing them in prams, and being casually racist in buffoonish ways. Not to mention, it’s hard to find young people who care about something other than shopping or eating.
the amount of superficiality, not just in appearances but attitudes and behavior. For instance, how jobseekers are often required to attach a photo and write their age and weight on their job applications. A person’s character is often judged by how one looks, how polite and how well one respects authority which in many cases is just sucking up.
I’m not saying these things don’t exist elsewhere but for some, they exist at a much higher level.
[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]It’s certainly not for the architecture, music/arts scene, ability to get out into beautiful nature unmarred by man or not have to fight off a billion other tourists there, amount of living space, and so on.
[/quote]
You’re in Taidong, aren’t you? I was down there last week shooting a story for an international magazine and there is a very vibrant music / arts scene in Dulan. It’s definitely worth checking out, the community there is a mixture of Amis, Taiwanese and foreign. There’s also some interesting architecture in the area - one of the stories I photographed (we did 2 at the same time) was a feature on one of the houses and architects in the area. It was definitely not your standard Taiwanese design.[/quote]
No it isn’t- it’s a hellhole down here - don’t come, and tell your friends not to come, either.
Haha.
On another note, five foreign restaurants (counting the burrito stand) have closed/are closing in the last year- most open less than a year.
That leaves three- not counting KFC and McDs, which is exotic food by local standards.
[quote=“MikeN”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]It’s certainly not for the architecture, music/arts scene, ability to get out into beautiful nature unmarred by man or not have to fight off a billion other tourists there, amount of living space, and so on.
[/quote]
You’re in Taidong, aren’t you? I was down there last week shooting a story for an international magazine and there is a very vibrant music / arts scene in Dulan. It’s definitely worth checking out, the community there is a mixture of Amis, Taiwanese and foreign. There’s also some interesting architecture in the area - one of the stories I photographed (we did 2 at the same time) was a feature on one of the houses and architects in the area. It was definitely not your standard Taiwanese design.[/quote]
No it isn’t- it’s a hellhole down here - don’t come, and tell your friends not to come, either.
Haha.
On another note, five foreign restaurants (counting the burrito stand) have closed/are closing in the last year- most open less than a year.
That leaves three- not counting KFC and McDs, which is exotic food by local standards.[/quote]
Mike N. is quite right. It sucks down here! Stay away. Nothing to see here!!
Today, for the first time, I found a couple that are going back home and are not bitter about Taiwan. They are obviously excited about their future, they have a nice home, family, friends, etc. to go back to. They told me they had a great time here -more than a decade- but wanted to be with their beloved ones. And that’s OK. They are currently living in an apartment that is less than ideal -noisy to the max, next to a major road- yet there were no bitter complaints from them, as I’ve heard from people whose furniture does not match the curtains or had to go around a badly parked scooter. It was so refreshing to find such a positive attitude.
Also, at my age, my 'tude bores even me. :snore: