Apartheid wrongfully vilified?

I can not believe this. Put black people head first in the mud for fifty years, and then blame them for their crimes against white people… The crimes are wrong, I know… Two wrongs do not make a right, I know… Still, I can even begin to imagine the anger I would harbor if I was a black person living under the Apartheid… “You reap what you sew.”


History of South Africa in the apartheid era
(link)
[i]
Apartheid (meaning separateness in Afrikaans cognate to English apart and -hood) was a system of racial segregation that was enforced in South Africa from 1948 to 1994. Apartheid was designed to form a legal framework for continued economic and political dominance by people of European descent.

Under apartheid, people were legally classified into a racial group — the main ones being White, Black, Indian and Coloured — and were geographically, and forcibly, separated from each other on the basis of the legal classification. The Black majority, in particular, legally became citizens of particular “homelands” that were nominally sovereign nations but operated more akin to United States Indian Reservations and Australian/Canadian Aboriginal Reserves. In reality however, a majority of Black South Africans never resided in these “homelands.”

In practice, this prevented non-white people — even if actually resident in white South Africa — from having a vote or influence, restricting their rights to faraway homelands that they may never have visited. Education, medical care, and other public services were segregated, and those available to black people were generally inferior.[/i]

Apartheid from day to day

[i]Apartheid was implemented by the law. The Reservation of Separate Amenities Act specifically allowed government to provide different levels of amenities for the different races. The following restrictions were not only social but also strictly enforced by law. For example:
South Africa’s national flag, from 1928-1994. The symbolism of the flag defines South Africa as an inherently white nation, recognizing the country’s British and Dutch ethnic roots, but offering no symbolic recognition of the black majority.
South Africa’s national flag, from 1928-1994. The symbolism of the flag defines South Africa as an inherently white nation, recognizing the country’s British and Dutch ethnic roots, but offering no symbolic recognition of the black majority.

* Non-whites were not allowed to run businesses or professional practices in those areas designated as "white South Africa" (i.e. all economically significant towns and commercial areas) without a permit. They were supposed to move to the black "homelands" and set up businesses and practices there.
* Transport and civil facilities were segregated. Black buses, known as "green" buses because they had a green marker on the front windscreen, stopped at black bus stops and white buses at white ones. 1st and 2nd class train carriages were for whites only. 3rd class carriages were for blacks only.
* Hospitals and ambulances were segregated. The white hospitals were generally of a very good standard with well-educated staff and ample funds, while black hospitals were seriously understaffed and underfunded, with many black areas without a hospital at all.[2]
* Blacks were excluded from living or working in white areas, unless they had a pass — nicknamed the dompas ("dumb pass" in Afrikaans). Only blacks with "Section 10" rights (those who had migrated to the cities before World War II) were excluded from this provision. Strictly speaking, whites also required passes in black areas.
      o A pass was issued only to a black person with approved work. Spouses and children had to be left behind in non-white areas. Many white households employed blacks as domestic workers, who were allowed to live on the premises — often in small rooms external to the family home.
      o A pass was issued for one magisterial district (usually one town) confining the holder to that area only.
      o Being without a valid pass made a person subject to immediate arrest and summary trial, often followed by deportation to the person's homeland and prosecution of the employer. Police vans patrolled the "white" areas to round up the "illegal" blacks, causing enormous harm to the economy by removing willing workers from employers who were chronically short of labour.
* Black people were not allowed to employ white people. Although trade unions for black and "coloured" (mixed race) workers had existed since the early 20th century, it was not until the 1980s reforms that membership of a trade union by black workers became legal.
* In the 1970s each black child's education cost the state only a tenth of each white child's. The Bantu Education Act specifically aimed to teach blacks only the basic skills they would need in working for whites. Higher education was provided in separate universities and colleges after 1959. Very few places were provided for blacks and all the existing and reputable universities remained white.
* Black police were not allowed to arrest whites.

Blacks were not allowed to buy hard liquor (although this was relaxed later).

Black areas rarely had plumbing or electricity.

Public beaches were racially segregated, with the best ones reserved for whites (white beaches were typically developed; whereas black beaches were situated in remote areas with little or no development). Public swimming pools and libraries were segregated, and there were practically no pools nor libraries for blacks. Pedestrian bridges, drive-in cinema parking spaces, graveyards, parks, pedestrian crossings, public toilets and taxis were also segregated.

Cinemas and theatres in “white areas” (i.e. all significant towns and economic areas) were not allowed to admit blacks. There were practically no cinemas or theatres or restaurants or hotels in black areas. Most restaurants and hotels in white areas were not allowed to admit blacks except as staff, unless the government had given specific prior permission (such as when African diplomats needed to be accommodated). Black Africans were prohibited from attending “white” churches under the Churches Native Laws Amendment Act (1957). This was, however, never rigidly enforced, and churches were one of the few places races could mix without the interference of the law.

After 1948, sex and marriage between the races were prohibited. A white driver was not allowed to have a black in the front of the car if that person was of a different sex.

Taxation was unequal — the yearly income at which tax became payable by blacks was 360 rand (30 rand a month), while the white threshold was much higher, at 750 Rand (62.5 rand per month). On the other hand, the taxation rate for whites was considerably higher than that for blacks.

Most blacks were stripped of their South African citizenship when the “homelands” were declared “independent”. They thus were no longer able to apply for South African passports. Eligibility for a passport had, in any case, been difficult. A passport was a privilege, not a right, and the government saw fit not to grant many applications by blacks.

Apartheid pervaded South African culture, as well as the law. This was reinforced in many media, and the lack of opportunities for the races to mix in a social setting entrenched social distance between people.[/i]

preaching to the choir with this one, bobepine

[quote=“Namahottie”]preaching to the choir with this one, bobepine[/quote]Eh? Not really. More like knocking some senses into Screaming Jesus. Is that OK with you?

Don’t even start this one Bobepine…or should i say continue it after what screaming jesus wrote…its easy for us that lived in countries outside of Africa to point fingers, but Africa is something else…our countries were the same, but just 1000 years ago.

Do as you please, but Screaming Jesus has a history of posting racist ideas on the board. It’s not going to change him/her. In fact, they probably enjoy the “rise” they get from other people’s response to their posts.

[quote=“Tyc00n”]Don’t even start this one Bobepine…or should i say continue it after what screaming jesus wrote…its easy for us that lived in countries outside of Africa to point fingers, but Africa is something else…our countries were the same, but just 1000 years ago.[/quote]Why are you telling me this? I don’t get it. SJ made an off topic comment, and I’m calling him on it in a separate thread. I find it outrageous, read probably the most outrageous thing I have read on this board. Don’t read too much into this.

Do as you please, but Screaming Jesus has a history of posting racist ideas on the board. It’s not going to change him/her. In fact, they probably enjoy the “rise” they get from other people’s response to their posts.[/quote]I did not know that. :idunno:

About SJ’s posts - i had no idea neither. Someone wised me up. Thanks, powers that be!

as for Tycoon’s point:

It’s an enviable desire to let sleeping dogs lie. But sometimes you just gotta get things out in the open, no? Sorry, this point got my blood up. I was accused of being a liberal for being anti-racism, and that just… that just gets under my skin. sorry.

I’ll mention again here (because it’s more on topic than when it first came up) that I am surprised that people can come on this board and mention how they think whites are superior to blacks, that they like segregation, etc, but some of those same people are married to Chinese women, and have produced offspring. What happened to the supposed purity of the superior white race? The argument was made that “chinese and whites get along better than blacks and whites”, but the same argument chose to ignore the “Whites are the superior race” question.

If you think whites are superior to other races, fine, that’s your opinion. But why not marry a white person and continue the superiority of your race? it just seems silly. There are plenty of countries that have a population composed almost entirely of whites, why not move there and get married, if you have a problem with your home country?

If you think apartheid is so great, why did you move to a country where whites are a tiny minority? Or would any pro-apartheid activists advocate for a “whites only” enclave in Taiwan*, like the ‘foreign quarters’ shanghai had in the 30’s?

*no Tienmu jokes, please…

Isn’t Screaming Jesus just arguing for a two-state solution?

[quote=“lurkky”]
I’ll mention again here (because it’s more on topic than when it first came up) that I am surprised that people can come on this board and mention how they think whites are superior to blacks, that they like segregation, etc, but some of those same people are married to Chinese women, and have produced offspring. What happened to the supposed purity of the superior white race? The argument was made that “chinese and whites get along better than blacks and whites”, but the same argument chose to ignore the “Whites are the superior race” question.[/quote]

Down South where I’m from, Chinese and Japanese have always been considered the same as Whites. I was witness at a wedding between a Chinese girl and a White guy in SC back around 1982…the Clerk of Court asked the girl what race she was…the girl said Chinese. The CC said, “You have two choices, Black or White”…real quick the girl said “White!”…we all laughed our asses off.

Name them.

Cause there are few blacks? :unamused:

China had mandatory foreign enclaves all the way back in the Tang Dynasty. Makes them easier to control and keeps foreigners out of the general population.

Tianmu jokes? :unamused: Tianmu’s pretty nice. Ever been there?

Too many white people… :roflmao: :banana:

seperate states is one thing but as any one who knows anything about apartheid can tell you it was institutional racism of the most abhorrent kind…don’t listen to white south african apologists who will argue the contrary…

i dont care what black south africans get up to post-apartheid (in the context of this argument); it doesn’t excuse the evils of the apartheid system…i cant even believe people on this board can argue to the contrary…

[quote=“the bear”]separate states is one thing but as any one who knows anything about apartheid can tell you it was institutional racism of the most abhorrent kind…don’t listen to white south african apologists who will argue the contrary…

i dont care what black south africans get up to post-apartheid; it doesn’t excuse the evils of the apartheid system…i cant even believe people on this board can argue to the contrary…[/quote]

With reasoning like this you could easily become Mbeki’s advisor, mate. Incredible words of wisdom there from your side.

Anpu

PS: Mbeki’s the SA president

[quote=“Anubis”][quote=“the bear”]separate states is one thing but as any one who knows anything about apartheid can tell you it was institutional racism of the most abhorrent kind…don’t listen to white south african apologists who will argue the contrary…

i dont care what black south africans get up to post-apartheid; it doesn’t excuse the evils of the apartheid system…i cant even believe people on this board can argue to the contrary…[/quote]

With reasoning like this you could easily become Mbeki’s advisor, mate. Incredible words of wisdom there from your side.

Anpu

PS: Mbeki’s the SA president[/quote]

there is no reasoning…apartheid = evil…do you want to argue to the contrary?

this is starting to smack of holocaust denial…

again; you can’t excuse the evils of one system by pointing to the perceived evils of the system that replaces it…

[quote=“the bear”][quote=“Anubis”][quote=“the bear”]separate states is one thing but as any one who knows anything about apartheid can tell you it was institutional racism of the most abhorrent kind…don’t listen to white south african apologists who will argue the contrary…

i dont care what black south africans get up to post-apartheid; it doesn’t excuse the evils of the apartheid system…i cant even believe people on this board can argue to the contrary…[/quote]

With reasoning like this you could easily become Mbeki’s advisor, mate. Incredible words of wisdom there from your side.

Anpu

PS: Mbeki’s the SA president[/quote]

there is no reasoning…apartheid = evil…do you want to argue to the contrary?

this is starting to smack of holocaust denial…

again; you can’t excuse the evils of one system by pointing to the perceived evils of the system that replaces it…[/quote]

No you can’t, but then are not the current troubles exactly what the Afrikaaners feared in the first place? I don’t think this is a cut and dry issue. Screaming Jesus is not arguing that white people are superior to black people, but advocating a partitioned country. Funny because that is exactly what liberals argue in favor of regarding Palestine, but SC argues for the same situation in SA and everyone is up in arms.

ilived in south africa during someof the worst excesses of the apartheid regime, in the 1970s. it was brutal, and abhorrent, and totally evil.

anybody hankering for a return of that system is a) almost certainly white, and b) most definitely evil themsleve. racism is not pretty, institutionalized racism sucks even more.

i rejoiced when south africa was able to transition from apartheid to something much more representative of all the people who live there, even though the country had to go through some tough times as a result. it is now doing much beter, although it needs to seriously rethink its health policies somewhat. mbeki has been a fool sometimes, but at lest he is a fool of and by the people, and they can change him at another election.

"In our struggle against apartheid, the great supporters were Jewish people. They almost instinctively had to be on the side of the disenfranchised, of the voiceless ones, fighting injustice, oppression and evil. I have continued to feel strongly with the Jews. I am patron of a Holocaust centre in South Africa. I believe Israel has a right to secure borders.

What is not so understandable, not justified, is what it did to another people to guarantee its existence. I’ve been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about."
– Desmond Tutu

Ah, the Jews again…

You’ve said in the past that you want to expel the Palestinians from even the land they’re living on and were born on. Even Screaming Jesus doesn’t take his “two-state solution” this far as he would at least least black South Africans stay.

IF that is what it takes so be it. Don’t pretend that millions of people have not been expelled or otherwise driven from their homes, the land where they live and were born on for political, economic and even socio-cultural reasons each and every day.

My point was not to discuss South Africa but to point out to you once again that your obsession with the Jews is not a healthy one. Get help.

IF that is what it takes so be it. Don’t pretend that millions of people have not been expelled or otherwise driven from their homes, the land where they live and were born on for political, economic and even socio-cultural reasons each and every day.

My point was not to discuss South Africa but to point out to you once again that your obsession with the Jews is not a healthy one. Get help.[/quote]

I don’t think most Americans realize how glaringly inconsistent their positions on South Africa and the Middle East are. Thus it’s a legitimate point of discussion.

Not to mention that it’s a topic currently on the New York Times bestseller list at #11.