[quote]I don’t think most Americans realize how glaringly inconsistent their positions on South Africa and the Middle East are. Thus it’s a legitimate point of discussion.
Not to mention that it’s a topic currently on the New York Times bestseller list at #11.[/quote]
Riiiiigggggghhhhhhtttttt Spook. That is what this is ALL about. Inconsistency. Well, no one can accuse you of lacking consistency in your obsession.
"As to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, there is an additional factor. The so-called “Palestinian autonomous areas” are bantustans. These are restricted entities within the power structure of the Israeli apartheid system.
The Palestinian state cannot be the by-product of the Jewish state, just in order to keep the Jewish purity of Israel. Israel’s racial discrimination is daily life of most Palestinians. Since Israel is a Jewish state, Israeli Jews are able to accrue special rights which non-Jews cannot do. Palestinian Arabs have no place in a “Jewish” state.
Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.
The responses made by South Africa to human rights abuses emanating from the removal policies and apartheid policies respectively, shed light on what Israeli society must necessarily go through before one can speak of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East and an end to its apartheid policies."
– Nelson Mandela
Most Americans haven’t read Benny Morris. I remember years ago when I first read about his findings – what a shock! – it’s almost impossible to get hold of that information in the US. The US media so hopelessly slanted on the Palestinian problem…and of course, our views are shaped by James Michener and Leon Uris and the other great potboiler writers…people read the media so little I suspect the real shapers of opinion are fiction writers.
Scary.
Vorkosigan
Surely there has to be a place between total silence and anti-semitic ravings for an honest discussion like this.
Well, stop posting then and half the equation will be taken care of…
Well, stop posting then and half the equation will be taken care of…[/quote]
In other words ‘total silence’ which, in my view given the moral inconsistencies, is just the flip side of anti-semitic ravings.
Speaking of which, what is your position on apartheid in South Africa? Do you agree with Screaming Jesus?
[quote=“spook”]
Speaking of which, what is your position on apartheid in South Africa? Do you agree with Screaming Jesus?[/quote]
Why don’t you tell us?
[quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“spook”]
Speaking of which, what is your position on apartheid in South Africa? Do you agree with Screaming Jesus?[/quote]
Why don’t you tell us?[/quote]
Okay. I don’t think “two-state” solutions are legitimate solutions to dealing with conflicts between peoples occupying the same land because they will – realistically – never be done equitably. It’s the old “separate but equal” fallacy. Any human being native to a land has inalienable equal rights to life, liberty and justice in the place of their birth.
Now, how about you? What’s your position on the apartheid fallacy in South Africa?
And the benefits of living separately are imaginary, especially in an age where the internet and other forms of international communication have made national borders as anachronistic as the gold standard.
Oh no. I disagree entirely. I think that the benefits of living separately from some groups are very salutory. Depends on whom we are referring to, eh? terrorists? criminals? lazy, disrespectful drunken yobs? The list goes on. That is precisely why there are private clubs and gated communities. No, the desire to and benefits of living separately are immense and well-known and many people are willing to pay a lot of money for precisely that.
but that’s so elitist!
Shocking isn’t it?
Shocking isn’t it?[/quote]
I’m sure Hillary would be appalled at people separating from others based on income.
Tell that to the Amish. 
At least Screaming Jesus had the decency to come in through the front door. Where is that rascal anyway? He started this whole thing in the first place.
Tell that to the Amish. [/quote]
Sorry, they don’t have internet access. 
Oh no. I disagree entirely. I think that the benefits of living separately from some groups are very salutory. Depends on whom we are referring to, eh? terrorists? criminals? lazy, disrespectful drunken yobs? The list goes on. That is precisely why there are private clubs and gated communities. No, the desire to and benefits of living separately are immense and well-known and many people are willing to pay a lot of money for precisely that.[/quote]
Ah, the people with money.
The criminals will hack their computers. The yobs will Fight Club their banking system and spoil their soccer matches. And the terrorists will fly a plane into their world trade center - again. They can run, but they can’t hide.
Thanks, international communications/trade!
There was almost an enviable and simple honesty in South Africa’s apartheid, unlike the lie of equality still promulgated in the likes of Australia.
HG
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]There was almost an enviable and simple honesty in South Africa’s apartheid, unlike the lie of equality still promulgated in the likes of Australia.
HG[/quote]
By the “lie of equality” being promulgated in Australia, do you mean that the true governerment policy is, in fact, to promote inequality, or that the government is simply not adopting the policies that you would in order to achieve equality. In other words, do you think that the “lie” is “Racial equality exists in Australia” or “Racial equality is the goal of the Australian government”?