Appalling Scenes in the Legislative Yuan


#21

brianlkennedy, nice post.

Based purely on the three English-language reports, particularly the DPP mouthpiece Taipei Times, it appears that was not the ‘louts’ in the filibustering KMT opposition that started the flying fists, but the DPP. (see blog for links)

It sounds to me like the DPP lost patience and resorted to physical violence. I can find nothing that justifies physical violence of any kind. Their actions reflect terribly on the public face of Taiwan and show exactly how much free speech and dissent they are willing to tolerate.


#22

Even if they cut the LY seats in 1/2, I don’t see much chance of change in attitude of LY members to enter fist fights.

If the whole thing is media driven as some have speculated. Then perhaps the media should do the responsible thing and no longer report of such events in detail (ie. don’t mention names or pictures). Just refer to them as “LY member from district 28” and “LY member from district 42”

But that of course would require some legislating on the LY part. :wink:


#23

[quote=“ac_dropout”]
If the whole thing is media driven as some have speculated. Then perhaps the media should do the responsible thing [/quote]

hehe. mmphhh. HAHAHA

now I know that was a joke.

hopefully the smaller size will help somewhat. one can hope!


#24

Although Taiwanese people are very passionate about politics, we need to fine these idiots everytime they start ruckus. And gosh they need a huge reduction in pay…

$13,636.36 USD a month… (450,000NT)

thats $163,636.32 a year! More than half as much as what the President of the United States makes! Of course these aren’t seen as prestige jobs.

PAY REDUCTION NOW! FINES FOR BAD BEHAVIOR!


#25

Knowing Taiwan’s keen sense of pettiness. You would have people being fined for the most ridiculous reasons if that was the case.


#26

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Knowing Taiwan’s keen sense of pettiness. You would have people being fined for the most ridiculous reasons if that was the case.[/quote]The tai tai pointed out a Taiwan news reader last week doing a story on some woman who brought charges against a man who cussed st her.
She was doing something and p*ssed the guy off, he came to her home/shop/sidewalk TV room/whatever and said a few choice words to her and left.
She called the police, they did their usual (nothing) so she sued him.
She wound up being awarded NT$80,000 for his cussing her.

I told the wife that from now on, I will have a smile and use only obscure Spanish and HillBilly words when I am in traffic.
She was less than impressed with my efforts at judicial subterfuge.


#27

Odd, this is like the one time where you don’t compare with something in America. America has the dumbest things brought to court all the time…

What about the time when that old woman microwaved her rat-dog after giving him a bath? She sued the microwave company, she lost, granted.


#28

I guess it’s time to resurrect and update this post:

Sept 14, 2005

[quote]


#29

[quote=“Yellow Cartman”]I know it’s not a popular thing to say around these parts, but you know, some people are just not cut out to enjoy democracy. And that’s OK.

Flame away.[/quote]

it was actually ex-president marcos who famously made the comment (repeated by hunter s. thompson i believe) that maybe representative democracy is not the ideal form of government for Asian countries…

and the longer i’m in taiwan the more the ring of truth attaches to it…


#30

[quote=“the bear”][quote=“Yellow Cartman”]I know it’s not a popular thing to say around these parts, but you know, some people are just not cut out to enjoy democracy. And that’s OK.

Flame away.[/quote]

it was actually ex-president marcos who famously made the comment (repeated by hunter s. thompson I believe) that maybe representative democracy is not the ideal form of government for Asian countries…

and the longer I’m in Taiwan the more the ring of truth attaches to it…[/quote]
All well and good - but what exactly would you replace it with?
One party rule by Chen Shui-bian? :astonished:
One party rule by Lien Chan? :astonished: :astonished: :astonished:

I’m with Winston Churchill on this one


#31

[quote=“david”][quote=“the bear”][quote=“Yellow Cartman”]I know it’s not a popular thing to say around these parts, but you know, some people are just not cut out to enjoy democracy. And that’s OK.

Flame away.[/quote]

it was actually ex-president marcos who famously made the comment (repeated by hunter s. thompson I believe) that maybe representative democracy is not the ideal form of government for Asian countries…

and the longer I’m in Taiwan the more the ring of truth attaches to it…[/quote]
All well and good - but what exactly would you replace it with?
One party rule by Chen Shui-bian? :astonished:
One party rule by Lien Chan? :astonished: :astonished: :astonished:

I’m with Winston Churchill on this one[/quote]

i’m thinking the forumosa mods coulds have a crack…generalissimo maoman has a certain cachet…


#32

The updates to this thread just can’t keep up:
September 27, 2005, debate about the NCC law

Legislators pull each other’s hair.

Several legislators weren’t “feeling well” afterwards.

Greens surround the presiding officers’ podium to “filibuster,” calling the Blues’ scheduled NCC law vote a “violence by majority,” and Greens call for dissolution of the LY; Blues call for impeachment of Chen. The gavel was stolen from Wang Jinping, so he left and nothing was done in LY.

When will you people realize this kind of behavior is not a trademark of the Blues alone? I mean give me a fucking break, what became of the Greens, including CSB himself, practically invented this shit in the early 1990s.


#33

Thanks for posting that zeugmite. I saw that on the news last night and thought it was a re-run from last week. Unfortunately, your photos don’t do yesterday’s incident justice at all; it was a big raging brawl. :bravo:

Anyway, here are a couple more photos from past events. It just seems important, to me, that these stories and images be stored together. Blue – Green – who cares, it makes for good entertainment either way.

Perhaps someone could publish a weekly zine on Taiwan’s legislative brawls.


#34

It’s a really sad state of affairs, and the Taiwanese people should demand a bit more decorum from their elected representatives. Don’t they realize that this kind of stuff is broadcast internationally and just makes Taiwan a laughing-stock? It’s even been ridiculed in American movies … :unamused:

Any legislator who engages in a fight in the LY should be arrested and fined (and not just NT$1 or something stupid like that … a serious fine that will make them think before they punch). Legislators who engage in obnoxious behavior (not necessarily fisticuffs, but perhaps refusing to leave the podium, shouting obscenities, stealing gavels, etc.) should be fined and publicly censured. A second violation should result in expulsion from the LY.

Will the LY hold its members accountable and implement these kind of rules of conduct? Hah! Not in a million years … because they 1) love the publicity, good or bad, 2) they’re so stuck on themselves that they don’t realize that there is an international community watching, and 3) they don’t give a f*ck about the people they supposedly represent or anythingn else other than money (and apparently improving their fighting skills).


#35

And somehow this is suppose to convince PRC that “democracy” is the solution for a Chinese society.

…what a freaking joke.

No wondering when PRC citizens hear ROC citizens brag about democracy, most PRC citizens go “WTF?” :noway:


#36

[quote=“zeugmite”]Greens surround the presiding officers’ podium to “filibuster,” calling the Blues’ scheduled NCC law vote a “violence by majority,” and Greens call for dissolution of the LY; Blues call for impeachment of Chen. The gavel was stolen from Wang Jinping, so he left and nothing was done in LY.

When will you people realize this kind of behavior isnot a trademark of the Blues alone? I mean give me a f***ing break, what became of the Greens, including CSB himself, practically invented this shit in the early 1990s.[/quote]

Spot on. I’m sadly realizing that the greens are just as gangsterly and hooligan-like as the blues. And yes, with the voter apathy I see in the under-50 age group, this is exactly the govt this country deserves.

They are a disgrace, an embarrassment to everyone from Taiwan.

And now I’m off to wield my shoe. There’s a few folks on both sides who need to see it.


#37

Good to know that I must learn unarmed combat if I am to perform strongly as a Taiwanese MP.


#38

[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]
Will the LY hold its members accountable and implement these kind of rules of conduct? Hah! Not in a million years … because they 1) love the publicity, good or bad, 2) they’re so stuck on themselves that they don’t realize that there is an international community watching, and 3) they don’t give a f*ck about the people they supposedly represent or anythingn else other than money (and apparently improving their fighting skills).[/quote]

“Democracy is a device that insures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.” - George Bernard Shaw

Something about the elected officials being a reflection of the people? One could easily think that you were talking about Taiwanese people in general with this quote, not just the LY.


#39

[quote=“ac_dropout”]And somehow this is suppose to convince PRC that “democracy” is the solution for a Chinese society.

…what a freaking joke.[/quote]

Don’t play so high and mighty. Surely brawling lawmakers are also commonplace in China (but perhaps if one photographed them one would be executed). Certainly government perpetrated fraud and corruption are the standard. And we’ve all seen the images of the govt killing and otherwise brutalizing citizens at Tianamen Square and otherwise. And it’s common knowledge that China’s system of justice is anything but just.

[quote]For three days and three nights, the police wrenched Qin Yanhong’s arms high above his back, jammed his knees into a sharp metal frame, and kicked his gut whenever he fell asleep. The pain was so intense that he watched sweat pour off his face and form puddles on the floor.

On the fourth day, he broke down. “What color were her pants?” they demanded. “Black,” he gasped, and felt a whack on the back of his head. “Red,” he cried, and got another punch. “Blue,” he ventured. The beating stopped.

This is how Mr. Qin, a 35-year-old steel mill worker in Henan Province in central China, recalled groping in the darkness of a interrogation room to deduce the “correct” details of a rape and murder, end his torture and give the police the confession they required to close a nettlesome case.

On the strength of his coerced confession alone, prosecutors indicted Mr. Qin. A panel of judges then convicted him and sentenced him to death. He is alive today only because of a rare twist of fate that proved his innocence and forced the authorities to let him go, though not before a final push to have him executed anyway.

Justice in China is swift but not sure. Criminal investigations nearly always end in guilty pleas. Prosecutors almost never lose cases brought to trial. But recent disclosures of wrongful convictions like Mr. Qin’s have exposed deep flaws in a judicial system that often answers more to political leaders than the law.[/quote]
nytimes.com/2005/09/21/inter … nfess.html

Taiwan’s lawmakers are a joke, but at least the people can vote them into or out of office and the media can report freely on their childish antics.


#40

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]

Taiwan’s lawmakers are a joke, but at least the people can vote them into or out of office and the media can report freely on their childish antics.[/quote]

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

exactly. the next guys you vote in probably will be just as bad, and the media may be scumbags, but these avenues to progress DO exist.

you only got two out of three right buddha, these guys know what this means to taiwan’s image overseas, they just don’t care. the elections are free and fair, the bottom line is these guys think it will help them get elected or achieve a larger political goal. presumably there is something to that or they would have given it up by now. that doesn’t say much for the electorate, but there it is. do keep in mind we’re talking about groups of people who can barely agree on who they are. not a recipe for peace under the best of circumstances, much less with a huge bear hovering drooling over your shoulder. chaos no doubt helps the agenda of certain groups here and just lying down to it is not an acceptable answer. under similar circumstances the us senate once saw a vicious caning. this is 2005 not 1860 but when you take politcal and developmental history into account there are more probably more similarities than differences there. i’ll still take it over dictatorship with no accountability, any day. i hold out hope for the reform to improve things somewhat.