USA already dissappointed the KMT during the Vietnam and Korean Wars. No Beijing regime change occur back then either.
a very good letter today in the TT that explains it all now. Thanks, Gareth!
But the real danger of allowing violence to play any part in democratic deliberation is that when consensus is achieved at the end of a baseball bat, or the barrel of a gun, this is only turning Taiwan into a classic example of a “failed state.”
It is often claimed that Taiwan is a youthful democracy undergoing a transformation into maturity. Tuesday’s incidents give ammunition to Taiwan’s enemies, who charge that the development of the Taiwan’s democracy appears to have been arrested at the kindergarten stage.
– Gareth Price
I have been here for awhile and despite all its faults (there are many) I love this place.
I have a large number of Taiwanese people that I love and respect. Some true blue friends who have been loyal and giving, a girlfriend and family soon to be inlaws etc…
Everytime Taiwan makes world news for this shit, Elton John, the KMT China trip airport riots, the post election riots and every bitch slap fest in the government, I feel like Taiwan looks like a backwater joke full of yokels and idiots.
I have to say it makes me a little sad. I want so much more for this place and I see so much potential, you know.
It is like half the population is holding the other half back.
Things could and should be better.
The story on the arms procurement budget, as well as the recent scuffles in the Legislative Yuan, have made it onto CNN in a special report by everyone’s favorite, Mike Chinoy. Things like that, coupled with the double ads by the blue and green camps (on the same page) regarding LTH’s trip to the US in whichever major newspaper it was … eventually the US is going to get the message that Taiwan is not worth fighting and dying for. Even the Taiwan caucus in the US Congress is getting pissed off at Taiwan, which is unusual for them.
It seems not only the LY has a sense of the dramatic…
Interesting, though, is that the Nats’ OWN MPs called for the suspension. It would be nice to see the more “civilized” members of the LY calling for their own party-members to be booted for thuggish behaviour. Fat chance.
Time for an update. Lest we forget, here’s a summary of past legislative brawls, food fights, kicking, punching and pouting.
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … &&start=20
Here’s a few photos of Taiwan’s lawmakers from the past:
And here’s the latest installment:
[quote] Pandemonium broke out on the legislative floor yesterday as the pan-green camp for the third time blocked a proposal to establish direct transport links with China from being put to a vote – with one legislator even snatching the proposal away and stuffing it in her mouth in protest. . .
Just as PFP Legislator Ko Shu-ming (柯淑敏) was about to submit the revised clauses to be voted on one by one, DPP Legislator Wang Shu-hui (王淑慧) grabbed the proposal paper from Ko’s hands and stuffed it in her mouth, in a sudden move that astonished other lawmakers. Wang later spat out the document and tore it up after opposition lawmakers failed to get her to cough it up by pulling her hair.
During the melee, another DPP legislator, Chuang Ho-tzu (莊和子), spat at an opposition colleague. “She spat saliva,” yelled Hung Hsiu-chu (洪秀柱) of the KMT.
Other pan-green and pan-blue lawmakers began to shove and shout at each other, forcing the legislative session to grind to a halt amid the chaotic free-for-all. . .
There was a second round of chaos in the late afternoon, with lawmakers once again clashing with each other. Wang then announced a review of other provisional motions, while the pan-blue camp boycotted all motions proposed by the pan-green camp. The session then shuddered to a halt. . .[/quote]
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003310882
Pan-blue legislators try to retrieve their direct links proposal after Democratic Progressive Party Legislator Wang Shu-hui, center, stuffed it in her mouth.
however, here is what a brawl should be about
[quote]Wednesday, 29 April, 1998, 23:08 GMT 00:08 UK
Political football, Italian style
Italian parliament brawl
On the attack: the politicians get to grips on the penalty clause
Italy’s parliament was suspended after deputies lunged at each other during a debate on a controversial decision by a soccer referee.
The debate, on Wednesday, was being broadcast live on television.
“We are not at a stadium. This is a spectacle that is unworthy, embarrassing and grotesque,” the Deputy Prime Minister, Walter Veltroni, said.
His question time had to be suspended because of the uproar in the Chamber of Deputies.
Ushers in the lower house had to hold back Domenico Gramazio of the far-right National Alliance after he launched a break-away attack into the benches of Italy’s largest Left wing party.
Foul! The Italian newspapers claim Inter was robbed
Mr Gramazio was involved in several scuffles with the ushers as he tried to reach his goal. Other parliamentarians began shouting and nearly came to blows.
According to some reports, Mr Gramazio was heard to shout “They are all thieves” before trying to reach Massimo Mauro, a deputy of the ruling Democrats of the Left and a former player with Juventus.
Mr Mauro also tried to reach Mr Gramazio before the session was suspended and the live television transmission was cut.
More than a game
Penalty! Inter’s Brazilian ace Ronaldo, in blue, is tackled by Mark Luliano
The outburst is the latest in a series of controversies in what newspapers are now calling “the poisoned championship”.
The debate followed referee Piero Ceccarini’s failure to award Inter-Milan a penalty during a key match against their great rivals Juventus last weekend.
Juventus won the game 1-0 and are now expected to win the Serie A league.
The BBC’s Sport’s Correspondent Harry Peart says the incident has caused heated debate among football fans throughout Italy and attracted wide press coverage.
He says there seems to be an almost unanimous view that the incident was the latest in a series of mistakes that have favoured Juventus and devalued the race for the league championship title.
The debate has also widened and revolves around the question of whether Italian referees are totally objective and whether they are unwilling to make decision against such major football institutions such as Juventus.
Before the outburst forced the suspension, Mr Veltroni told parliament that the football federation had promised there would be changes to the way referees are selected in future.
well, a few years later they are discovering that Juventus did control the results…
or can we say the South-Koreans?
in the end, they still where a little better than the taiwanese counterparts…
What’s to say…she tried to swallow the paper, but she could not - probably too big and bad-smelling. I, for one, don’t blame her.
can anyone say “spit or swallow” over this one???
What happened to “saving face”?
She should have swallowed.
What does swallowing it suppose to do. It not like there isn’t another copy stored on a laptop somewhere.
Now if she tried to swallow the laptop, I’d be impressed.
Me too, espesially if the signature take some time to get…
I wish she’d choked on it and expired then and there… :raspberry:
Thanks to sniveling ignorant pedants like that woman I have to waste over NT$20K and an entire day every time I need to fly Taipei to Shanghai or Taipei GuangZhou… it should be a NT$7k, max 1.5 hour flight… the shortsightedness of these fools still astounds me even after years of being exposed to their eye watering idiocy… :loco:
at least their lowbrow playground antics are good for a laugh… sigh…
Looks to me like a clear case argument for training your political interns how to swallow. Vindication for Clinton, in a sense.
Forgive my not having read the whole thread and probably repeating what’s been said but here goes anyway.
Why on earth can’t they just legislate themselves in a non physical bill in Taiwan. If a politician chooses to nvade the space of another politician they should be suspended from parliament for a period of time. If their body makes contact with another politician such as a shoulder push etc then they face a jail term just as any common thug should. More importantly they should be ridiculed by the other politicians and the media for how pathetic and weak minded they are.
Either that or just accept that Taiwan is not yet ready for democracy and extend the petty violence out to its historical conclusion of local pockets of strongmen throughout the country warring continually until eventually the strongest and must brutal becomes the national ruler. They can then spend centuries working toward a Taiwanese Magna Carta and eventually head toward where they are now and see if they want to cycle through again.
These shows of violence must ripple through Taiwanese society as models of problem solving behaviour. I feel sorry for the recipients such as battered wives, children and those generally not able to defend themselves. I donated a little money recently to help battered wives and it just stinks that the politicians are demonstrating violence as an acceptable response to problem solving.
Well, blame the years and years of violent repression, that should explain a big part of it…
If the government can be violent, why not the rest of the people?
Anyway, I would preffer anyday to see violence on the parliament between them then to get it outside gang style…
Ok, this isn’t the Legislative Yuan – it’s the Taipei City Council – but it seems to fit in well here.
KMT City Councilor Yang Shih-chiu (in the blue shirt, chest exposed) wrestles with DPP City Councilor Cho Wei-yu over Mayor Ma Ying-jeou’s municipal report:
And here he is a moment later, with his wig lying on the table in the foreground:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Isn’t it great that the supposed role models here resort to bullying and violence to get their point across! It used to be amusing to watch Taiwan parliament on ‘Sixty Minutes’ but now that I live here I can see the downward effect is has on socity as a whole.
If Taiwan wants to be accepted at the International table, then they better start acting civilized.
As a dear friend of mine puts it…“Fucking peasants with Mercedes Benz’s”
Funny how those pics were on the front page of the Taipei Times (re. DPP rag) and nowhere to be seen in the China Post (re. KMT rag) I think you have to treat it as the joke that it is or it would just be too infuriating.
There was a pic in one of the papers the other day with some jack ass (in the LY, I think) holding a gun to a Chen Shui Bian doll. If nothing else, it’s good entertainment.