Appalling Scenes in the Legislative Yuan


#101

Yes, just a tiny percentage though.

Read ‘Mao. the untold story’ to see how violence left to run its course leaves a country run by the most violent and ruthless peasant available.


#102

Yes, just a tiny percentage though.

Read ‘Mao. the untold story’ to see how violence left to run its course leaves a country run by the most violent and ruthless peasant available.[/quote]

I certainly have friends and have met many good people here who aren’t in the above ‘demographic’, my quote was with particular reference to the fist throwing legislators.
Also, consider the case of the gangster in jail for murder who was voted into the legislature WHILST INCARCRATED!! WTF?? :loco:

Imagine Kim Beasley taking a swing at Peter Costello on ‘Parliament Question Time’. What a furore that would cause, the Oz public let alone the media would have a field day with it.
Can ‘culture’ be the root cause of this? I think that Taiwan is let down by an unwillingness for the majority to demand better from the government. Corruption all the way to the top, poorly enforced laws, lack of an effective education system just to name a few of the basic things that Taiwan falls short with.
We can all argue that while Taiwan is a good place to live for whatever reason, it has serious problems that it has failed to address. When these problems come to the forefront of public awareness, a ‘crackdown’ is ordered to create the illusion that it is being dealt with, then it’s brushed under the rug quickly after. One cannot ignore the fact that the way things are here have some serious questionable variables.

Things are slowly improving, but it’s still a token effort. If the politicians led a better example, then maybe the people would follow. It’s just like the parent who works just that little bit harder to educate their child on how to have better manners and respect others. But here, if those in power dont do it, why the hell should anyone else bother? Taiwan has a short term thinking strategy. Keep putting bandaids on those wounds until it bleeds to death, rather than have surgery and fix the problem once and for all. The cult of chabuduo is ruling this place.

You may ask ‘what all this has to do with a punch up in parliament?’. It is a reflection of the apathy and half heartedness that is tainting this potentially great little island. Maybe the next generation will do a better job, but still a loooooooong way to go!

If anyone disagrees, I’ll punch you in the face!!.. :stuck_out_tongue:


#103

Wait a sec here…didn’t former Labor Leader Mark Latham break a Sydney taxi driver’s arm in a dispute over a fare? :laughing: There are certainly lots of peasants in social democratic parties in Western countries, aren’t there?


#104

Right, it caused a freakin’ media circus didn’t it! Point is, Latham will probably never be seen in political circles again because of that.


#105

He was elected Labor leader after that incident in 2001. Australians politicos on the left, whether it was Bob Hawke playing up his beer-drinking exploits while campaigning and generally being very sexist towards the “sheilas”, or Latham fighting a taxi driver, really enjoy sinking down to street level.

I don’t think we can say peasant behaviour is limited to Taiwan’s politicians, although the island definitely has more than its fair share of idiot politicians. According to traditional Chinese culture, politics is a dangerous profession that is better to be avoided. I’ve lost count of the number of people in Taiwan who have told me “nice Taiwanese people don’t go into politics.”


#106

Actually he broke the guy’s arm before he was elected to Leader of the Opposition.

He also had an altercation with a photographer in a shopping mallthat led to an assult case against him.

He will never be in political circles again as he wrote a book that slammed the political party that entrusted him with their foremost leadership role - he bit the hand tnat fed him. He also personally attcked members of the media, which is rarely a sound move for someone in the public eye.

But the reason such a deal was made of this is because it is so rare in the Australian Parliment. Plenty of name calling, no violence. Some fond memories of PK with reference to AP:

On former Liberal Party Leader and Shadow Treasurer, Andrew Peacock:

“…what we have here is an intellectual rust bucket.”

“He, as Foreign Minister, was swanning around the United States of America with Shirley MacLaine or trying to crash one of Ted Kennedy’s parties…and he was trying to play statesman…while he swanned around, and then he made a cowardly attack upon the former Prime Minister before slinking back into his cabinet.”

“…if this gutless spiv, and I refer to him as a gutless spiv…”

“…the Leader of the Opposition’s inane stupidities.”

“He could not rise above his own opportunism or his incapacity to lead.”

“I suppose tha the Honourable Gentleman’s hair, like his intellect, will recede into th darkness.”

“He represents nothing and nobody.”

“You’ve been in the dye pot again, Andrew.”

“The Leader of the Opposition is more to be pitied than despised, the poor old thing.” “The Liberal Party ought to put him down like a faithful dog because he is of no use to it and of no use to the nation.”

“We’re not interested in the views of painted, perfumed gigolos.”

“It is the first time the Honourable Gentleman has got out from under the sunlamp.”


#107

Wait a sec here…didn’t former Labor Leader Mark Latham break a Sydney taxi driver’s arm in a dispute over a fare? :laughing: There are certainly lots of peasants in social democratic parties in Western countries, aren’t there?[/quote]

That’s nothing. My hero is four-time Mayor of Washington, DC, Marion Barry, who was caught on video smoking crack in a hotel room with a prostitute (and was subsequently elected to his 4th term and other offices).

[quote]Marion Shepilov Barry, Jr. (born March 6, 1936) served as Democratic mayor of Washington, D.C. from 1979 to 1991. He was forced to leave office during his third term as a result of his arrest and conviction on drug charges, but afterward again elected to the D.C. council and ultimately to the mayoralty, serving a fourth term from 1995 to 1999. Today, Barry serves on the Council of the District of Columbia, representing Ward Eight, which comprises Anacostia and Congress Heights. He is also serving three years probation for misdemeanor charges of failing to pay federal and local taxes, and continues to receive drug counseling after testing positive for cocaine and marijuana in October 2005. . .

On January 18, 1990, Barry was arrested with a former girlfriend, Hazel “Rasheeda” Moore, in a sting operation at the Vista Hotel by the FBI and D.C. Police for crack cocaine use and possession. The incident – played over and over on television – produced what is perhaps the most memorable quote of Barry’s long career: "Goddamn setup . . . I’ll be goddamn . . . bitch set me up." This quote refers to Rasheeda Moore. . .

As a result of his arrest and the ensuing trial, Barry was forced to step down from his position as mayor. In the midst of his campaign for a city council seat, Barry was sentenced to a six-month federal prison term in October 1990. . .[/quote]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Barry

Here he is smoking crack in the FBI video:


#108

Good old Paul Keating, who once referred to a certain Asian leader as a recalcitrant! Nice touch Paul!


#109

It occurred to me we should save some of these fine scenes of Taiwan politics in video format, not just photos.

This one’s an oldie but goodie:

youtube.com/watch?v=pnR-BAhA2WE

And here’s that former DPP idiot who beat up a guy on a TV talk show last week:

youtube.com/watch?v=EZjOh4Rl … ed&search=


#110

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]It occurred to me we should save some of these fine scenes of Taiwan politics in video format, not just photos.

This one’s an oldie but goodie:

youtube.com/watch?v=pnR-BAhA2WE

And here’s that former DPP idiot who beat up a guy on a TV talk show last week:

youtube.com/watch?v=EZjOh4Rl … ed&search=[/quote]

Youtube is fantastic eh? The whole world gets to see Taiwan in its glory. :laughing:


#111

Any more? The slap was super!!


#112

What a digrace


#113

Was the guy in the suit making contact when he was vigorously pointing his finger at red shirt guy?

He appered to me to be making contact. At the point that he was prodding the guy he had crossed the boundary between discussion and physical attack imo, at this point I’m with red shirt guy and the nice haymaker he launched from a sitting position.

I’ve watched those parliamentary scenes. One guy shoulders the other guy like a school yard bully until a fight is on.

Australia is not immune to this. Probably the same people voted for this idiot as the ones that tell that sick joke about having bung bars on the front of their cars because that is the noise they make when they hit a native in the outback.

[quote]

Tuckey is one of the most colourful and controversial figures in Australian federal politics. In 1967, while a publican in Carnarvon, he was convicted of assault after striking an Aboriginal man with a length of steel cable, and he has had the nickname “Ironbar” ever since. Tuckey’s criminal conviction for this assault did not hinder his political ambitions. It is believed that Tuckey is the first federal Minister to have carried the stigma of having a criminal conviction for a violent assault.[/quote]


#114

[quote=“Ironman”]Was the guy in the suit making contact when he was vigorously pointing his finger at red shirt guy?

He appered to me to be making contact. At the point that he was prodding the guy he had crossed the boundary between discussion and physical attack imo, at this point I’m with red shirt guy and the nice haymaker he launched from a sitting position. [/quote]

I know what you’re saying Ironman. The “victim” did appear to make the first contact. Even if he didn’t, he was clearly provoking him and acting like a total ass, poking his finger so close at him repeatedly.

It brings to mind a scene from my past, when I was on an alcohol run one Friday evening during uni and was crossing the parking lot to the grocery store when I mouthed off at some guy that was driving badly, he got out of his car, came over and asked, “what did you say, what did you say,” I told him he was driving like shit, he said, “you got a problem with it?” he took off his glasses and was jabbing his finger towards me as he spoke, but I took no action till he finally jabbed my chest with his finger, but when he did that – when he actually made contact – that was when I threw him on the ground and kicked his ass.

I agree that the moment one goes from rude comments, arguments, insults, etc., to actually making physical contact, that is when one has crossed the boundary and committed a physical attack on the other (even if it’s just a jab of a finger). In fact, that’s what the law says in most jurisdictions. Assault (contrary to most people’s belief) does not require any contact; it’s just putting someone in reasonable fear of an imminent attack. Battery, on the other hand, is a harmful or offensive touching. It needn’t cause physical injury, it needn’t be violent, it could be an unwanted sexual touching or it could be some asshole poking his finger in your chest.

So I agree that the moment the “victim” in this case actually touched the pugilist with his finger (if he did), that’s when he crossed the line and committed actionable battery on the pugilist, in violation of his legal rights. BUT, I don’t believe that justified the pugilist’s response. I told you when I was crazy young uni student going out to get drunk on a Friday night, I kicked some guy’s ass because he crossed the line and poked me with his finger.

But such a response is only appropriate for crazy young uni students looking for excitement, or drunks in a bar, and the like, but not for a grown adult who has served as an elected official and is participating in a political talk show on public TV. A person such as that should show more restraint. He could have told him “don’t touch me, back off, quit jabbing your finger at me.” He could have moved his chair away from the guy. He could have stood up and walked away. He even could have grabbed the guys hands and shoved them away. Instead, he totally wailed on the guy. Yes, the finger wagger was an asshole and may have even initiated contact and committed battery, but I believe the pugilist’s response was clearly excessive. He lost control and acted totally inappropriately for someone in his position. Consequently, I believe he has already experience repercussions for his loss of control in that DPP members were making statements afterwards condemning his actions and trying to distance themselves from him.

Lots of school children get in fights, but once one grows up and becomes an adult one is expected to resolve differences by more peaceful and legal means – even when the other person started it.


#115

I guess this is American law. No idea what we do under British law. Probably similar. Sure makes a lot of sense. If the Taiwanese would uphold whatever their version is then the attacks could be stopped and the primitives that resort to physical means could be made to look like the out of control fools that they are.

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]But such a response is only appropriate for crazy young uni students looking for excitement, or drunks in a bar, and the like, but not for a grown adult who has served as an elected official and is participating in a political talk show on public TV. A person such as that should show more restraint. He could have told him “don’t touch me, back off, quit jabbing your finger at me.” He could have moved his chair away from the guy. He could have stood up and walked away. He even could have grabbed the guys hands and shoved them away. Instead, he totally wailed on the guy. Yes, the finger wagger was an asshole and may have even initiated contact and committed battery, but I believe the pugilist’s response was clearly excessive. He lost control and acted totally inappropriately for someone in his position. [color=blue]Consequently, I believe he has already experience repercussions for his loss of control in that DPP members were making statements afterwards condemning his actions and trying to distance themselves from him.

Lots of school children get in fights, but once one grows up and becomes an adult one is expected to resolve differences by more peaceful and legal means – even when the other person started it[/color].[/quote]

I was in a meeting today where we were trying to pull a Taiwanese bully boy factory manager down a peg or two. He tries to use intimidation to get his way instead of providing facts. A great recipe for disaster. I was thinking about an escalation to violence in the meeting. It was unlikely but possible. His latest trick is to walk up to people and stand on their toes while dressing them down. :loco:

You’ve seen biggest wins on the roads, well, in the factories it can be brashest and loudest and most intimidating makes boss material. So, its all the way from the top to the bottom here.

When the top gets its act together then hopefully the rest will become more civilised. Thanks for your post MT. It brings the whole thing into focus for me and makes a whole lot of sense.


#116

once you see them kicking someones arse in television (even in talk shows) you kind of think that resorting to violence is in their blood…


#117

I never see it that way in daily life. My Taiwanese friends are some of the most peaceful fun loving people I’ve ever met. (Minus the bully boy factory manager I mentioned above)


#118

neither did I (except when they are driving)… the problem is, how the hell can they do that in front of the cameras, and don’t have police escort them out of the show to a nice cabin?


#119

Well it is common knowledge that the commentator is an a$$. That’s why no one wants to go on the air with him. Probably ignorance on this ex-LY member part that got him on the show.

Next time I want to see some UFC submission holds being used. Simple block, front kick combinations are not that exciting to watch anymore.


#120

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Well it is common knowledge that the commentator is an a$$. That’s why no one wants to go on the air with him. Probably ignorance on this ex-LY member part that got him on the show.

Next time I want to see some UFC submission holds being used. Simple block, front kick combinations are not that exciting to watch anymore.[/quote]

On topic but a different venue, UFC still on cable tv? Lots of fun to watch.