Are those clothing stores?
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]You can get handsomely rich from working for a salary in Taiwan, as long as you pick your industry, your job and company rather carefully.
HG[/quote]
Rich is how much? How can you ‘pick’ your industry or ‘job’ or ‘company’ , when almost the only industry in town is IT? In fact if you work in IT industry outside Taiwan you will be paid much better on average, same goes for English teaching. Then of course there is glass ceiling problem (same for foreigners all over the world of course).
Employees don’t ‘pick’ jobs, we try and find the best job at the best price and something that you are educated/qualified to do.
Accounting and other finance management jobs, by the look of the management chart in my office. Out of the 250 odd people in my department, at least 70% are women and at least 60% of them are making significantly more than I am. My manager is a woman, my two directors are women, my company partner is a woman, and almost all the assistant managers and managers above me are women.[/quote]
Yes, accounting and finance management. Those three words together ensure high pay, however they are in no way representative of regular female office workers, service workers, manual workers, govt employees in Taiwan. Even regular banking staff get paid very low wages. You may ask some of these women you work with about their home lives, if in management position can be very difficult…
There is a premium to management positions in Taiwan, it says, we pay you well, you work like a dog , keep costs down in your dept. including everybody elses salary and don’t rock the boat.
[quote]Rich is how much? How can you ‘pick’ your industry or ‘job’ or ‘company’ , when almost the only industry in town is IT? In fact if you work in IT industry outside Taiwan you will be paid much better on average, same goes for English teaching. Then of course there is glass ceiling problem (same for foreigners all over the world of course).
Employees don’t ‘pick’ jobs, we try and find the best job at the best price and something that you are educated/qualified to do.[/quote]
IT is not the only industry in town, and nor is ESL. There are high paying meritocracies about, sure luck plays a hand, but you can design your luck to some extent. I’m talking about finance and stockbroking. People in international houses in Taiwan are paid pretty much what they’re paid in the rest of the world, and let’s just say that yes, they are rich. Oh, and they include women.
Yes, work is usually required, hard work at that, but I don’t see what you’re describing above as universally applicable.
It’s very straightforward. If you work in an industry that attracts big dollars, some of it will wash your way. Work in an industry that attracts peanuts, and well, you get sod all.
HG
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”][quote]Rich is how much? How can you ‘pick’ your industry or ‘job’ or ‘company’ , when almost the only industry in town is IT? In fact if you work in IT industry outside Taiwan you will be paid much better on average, same goes for English teaching. Then of course there is glass ceiling problem (same for foreigners all over the world of course).
Employees don’t ‘pick’ jobs, we try and find the best job at the best price and something that you are educated/qualified to do.[/quote]
IT is not the only industry in town, and nor is ESL. There are high paying meritocracies about, sure luck plays a hand, but you can design your luck to some extent. I’m talking about finance and stockbroking. People in international houses in Taiwan are paid pretty much what they’re paid in the rest of the world, and let’s just say that yes, they are rich. Oh, and they include women.
Yes, work is usually required, hard work at that, but I don’t see what you’re describing above as universally applicable.
It’s very straightforward. If you work in an industry that attracts big dollars, some of it will wash your way. Work in an industry that attracts peanuts, and well, you get sod all.
HG[/quote]
So how would you ‘pick’ a job as being a stock broker or banker , accounting or finance professional in Taiwan as a foreigner with no experience, no financial education and mediocre Chinese skills? We could have as much chance as picking up a job as a medical doctor. And if you were qualifed/educated in this area Taiwan wouldn’t be the place to come by a long shot. I have met research analysts in Taiwan but most of them left/quit already and they tended to get their jobs many moons ago (7-10 years ago).
You are choosing one limited profession with high entry level barriers, especially for foreigners, to make your point.
Well, I had no previous training in that industry when I moved into it in Taiwan. Started as an editor and worked up. Mind you had a little more than mediocre Chinese skills.
HG
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Well, I had no previous training in that industry when I moved into it in Taiwan. Started as an editor and worked up. Mind you had a little more than mediocre Chinese skills.
HG[/quote]
When did you move to Taiwan and do you still work in this industry in Taiwan? Do you have any professional accreditation such as chartered acct’y/stock broking license. Sorry, don’t want to be too strident sounding on this, just interested. It’s my impression that those opportunities left these shores a long time ago (about the time I first came to Taiwan, 2001).
Those jobs don’t have high entry barriers. What are you talking about? Several flobbers are in or have been in that sector, entering with no prior. Christ, even I’ve been offered positions and I got 6% for “o” level maths all those years ago.
They do require hard work, though. A different world from IT or ESL, but the pay reflects that.
And yes, the salaries are commensurate with what you’d earn elsewhere, more or less.
[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Well, I had no previous training in that industry when I moved into it in Taiwan. Started as an editor and worked up. Mind you had a little more than mediocre Chinese skills.
HG[/quote]
When did you move to Taiwan and do you still work in this industry in Taiwan? Do you have any professional accreditation such as chartered acct’y/stock broking license. Sorry, don’t want to be too strident sounding on this, just interested. It’s my impression that those opportunities left these shores a long time ago (about the time I first came to Taiwan, 2001).[/quote]
I started on peanuts for a local house eight years ago, moved to a bigger, intermediate house and was eventually head hunted to HK by an international broker around five years ago. But I know in the company I work for of other people making the same sort of move right now in Taiwan.
In my case a lack of savings made me jump at the higher paying move to HK, although I’m sure if I’d stayed in Taiwan eventually it would have worked out there too. In fact, a good friend who was also chased by the same head hunter that got me stayed on in Taiwan and after some ups and downs is doing far, far better than me. We both worked at the same local house many years ago and still joke about the pain of those early days.
As Sandman, mentions, there’s quite a few of us about and it isn’t at all uncommon. The common theme is often starting on peanuts and working very bloody hard. Luck comes into it, but it’s design too. I looked around for the best scope of earning good money and followed it.
HG
Well, yes, it’s good to bask in each other’s radiance. I was just saying y’know… that many “big men” have a problem working an “embarrassing” or low-paying job when his wife/girlfriend, friends, cousins, siblings, etc. are considered better off. It doesn’t have to be one’s wife that is causing the shadow.
Anyway… our society is built upon the idea that “money = merit.” Isn’t it?! Capitalism is Democracy’s friend. In fact, many argue that economic success is the only unbiased measure of merit (or value, etc.).
Surely, I would like to enjoy life and not be concerned with material pursuits. But, I learned a long time ago, that without money, there is a hindrance of all the “genuine pursuits” in life.
Ohh… lastly, well, I think only a “big man” (da nan ren zhu yi) would be concerned if he earned less than his wife - even if what he earned was no small amount.
now why does marrying a woman who earns more than you mean you will be living in her shadow? what kind of attitude is that? that is the attitude of one who equates their position in life with their income. that is the attitude of one who is solely interested ion judging their merit and that of others, i dare say, by the bankroll.
now, my wife earns more than I do, considerably more, but neither of us live in each other’s shadow, we bask in each other’s radiance. we both enjoy our lives, we both make the most of our happy situation, we share our money equally anyway, and there is no shadow to be seen.
seems to me that the man who cares about the relative earning potential of his wife is either not a confident man, deep down inside, or is one who can only gauge his own worth by the dollars he makes (which may be the same thing) that’s a sad situation: life is not about money, life is about living.[/quote]
Hmm… so could you tell me what is the approximate pay per month for a high-rolling person of finance such as yourself? No need to be specific, ball park would be great! Maybe you could describe the starting pay and the progressions along the years. It would be very interesting.
In another note, one of my English students is this nearly 60-year-old lawyer who spent $100,000,000 on his house, and another $20,000,000 on redesigning the whole place. Seems like more money than most people could ever hope to accumulate!
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
I started on peanuts for a local house eight years ago, moved to a bigger, intermediate house and was eventually head hunted to HK by an international broker around five years ago. But I know in the company I work for of other people making the same sort of move right now in Taiwan.
In my case a lack of savings made me jump at the higher paying move to HK, although I’m sure if I’d stayed in Taiwan eventually it would have worked out there too. In fact, a good friend who was also chased by the same head hunter that got me stayed on in Taiwan and after some ups and downs is doing far, far better than me. We both worked at the same local house many years ago and still joke about the pain of those early days.
As Sandman, mentions, there’s quite a few of us about and it isn’t at all uncommon. The common theme is often starting on peanuts and working very bloody hard. Luck comes into it, but it’s design too. I looked around for the best scope of earning good money and followed it.
HG[/quote]
Sorry, not that comfortable talking about it. Salaries are very guarded secrets in this industry. However, do a search. At international houses they’re pretty much the same wherever you are.
HG
It’s nice if your wife earns same or more as you, my point being here is that this is rare and therefore reduces double income as you would get more parity in the west. This is something people don’t take into account about income here.
[quote=“shawn_c”]Hmm… so could you tell me what is the approximate pay per month for a high-rolling person of finance such as yourself? No need to be specific, ball park would be great! Maybe you could describe the starting pay and the progressions along the years. It would be very interesting.
In another note, one of my English students is this nearly 60-year-old lawyer who spent $100,000,000 on his house, and another $20,000,000 on redesigning the whole place. Seems like more money than most people could ever hope to accumulate!
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
I started on peanuts for a local house eight years ago, moved to a bigger, intermediate house and was eventually head hunted to HK by an international broker around five years ago. But I know in the company I work for of other people making the same sort of move right now in Taiwan.
In my case a lack of savings made me jump at the higher paying move to HK, although I’m sure if I’d stayed in Taiwan eventually it would have worked out there too. In fact, a good friend who was also chased by the same head hunter that got me stayed on in Taiwan and after some ups and downs is doing far, far better than me. We both worked at the same local house many years ago and still joke about the pain of those early days.
As Sandman, mentions, there’s quite a few of us about and it isn’t at all uncommon. The common theme is often starting on peanuts and working very bloody hard. Luck comes into it, but it’s design too. I looked around for the best scope of earning good money and followed it.
HG[/quote][/quote]
But he could have got his money through inheritance also or his family could have been linked with KMT and therefore got state-sponspored housing which they later sold at big profits. Actually it is a high likeliehood (although not 100%) that he is from such a background due to his age.
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Sorry, not that comfortable talking about it. Salaries are very guarded secrets in this industry. However, do a search. At international houses they’re pretty much the same wherever you are.
HG[/quote]
lets just say he makes enough to have his betelnut shipped fresh daily from his preferred supplier in Pingdong straight to his desk…oh and he has his own binlang girl on site to do the cutting, rolling, and pasting…
If you want to live in Taiwan and have an expat type salary/package I might recommend going back home, getting into a specific industry which has potential employment in Taiwan for 3 plus years. My own company required at least five years in the industry, and be able to speak fluent Chinese. The Taiwanese Government required 3 years experience plus my company generating a fairly high level of taxable sales revenue. The Taiwanese Government cares about those two items more than anything else as they looked over these documents extensively.
Probably many other options but this is the most straight forward one. Curious to hear other peoples stories on this.
I guess what the OP wants to know is if it is worth it to do the 9 to 5 gig -in its variations or career options- or if just teaching will be profitable enough.
For me, the advantage of having weekends off -yeah!- plus knowing what my salary will be next month -for future planning- is quite helpful and conductive to higher productivity. My previous job was one of those travel around for the company/meetings on weekends/late night overtime. Eventually, I was not a happy camper, it did not fit my style, and my goals like furthering my education, so I left, even though I liked the challenges it preesented and the salary was much better than what I make now. Teaching, I think, depends on how many hours you make, so, the salary might not be constant -again, not in all cases.
Certainly, teaching would be much profitable at a short range, but correct me if I’m wrong, most lucrative gigs are on weekends/require you to do nights. However, teaching also leaves many blocks of free time, that are suitable for freelancing. 
I should also add that the expat package is the way to go. If I had to do it all over again, I’ll get some multinational company to support me and mine here. I had an engineer pal whose salary was Okish, but the man didn’t even had to order his own pizza. He had a secretary do it for him. Car, apartment, expense account… Then they moved him further down Southern Asia. He was not a happy camper having a bodyguard -couldn’t get out Friday nights without a bit of protocol. Now he’s in the US, with muchos muchos dolares.
I stumbled into a job in finance 8 years ago. Note that I was FOB, had a bit of marketing from back home but no finance background, however my Chinese is a fair bit better than average. (I would imagine that Huang and I are at a roughly similar level languagewise).
I found it easy to get, but long long hours. If I had had just a remote interest in the job and I had gone for a CFA, I would most likely still be in that game, and hopefully raking in a fair bit more than what I did then. (My after tax salary was in absolute terms a bit better than the ones of my peers back home, note that the purchasing power here is a fair bit better than in Denmark).
So low salary as an employee, no if you are willing to build a career and pick the right industry, then you will have no problems. I would imagine that in IT and other industries, you will run into foreigners making decent coin as well.
I did interview for positions in market research while trying to get out of finance, and was told that I would have to start at NT$40k, work on that level for 2-3 years, and after that rise like a rocket once my dues had been well and truly paid. I met some foreigners in that industry, and they confirmed that.
I think that a low salary for an individual has a fair bit to do with the attitude of the job seekers as well. I have mentored a couple of people wanting to get into finance, and only one of them made the leap successfully. (He would have done so without me, I just gave him a bit of advice).
For the others the issues were a matter of sheer stupidity:
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Wanting good salaries from the get go. Idiot 1: “I can make NT$90,000 teaching, but only NT$50,000 editing English at a local brokerage, why change?” He will make NT$90k teaching his butt off for the next decades.
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Expecting things to be clear cut from the start when starting out. Idiot 2: “The stock brokerage says that I will have to work without a work permit for a few months, that’s breach of contract, I have asked a lawyer to sue them”. Needless to say, that guy is not in Taiwan any more. I started working at the stock brokerage in December and got my work permit in June the year after.
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Not wanting to actually work. Idiot 3: “OK, so they are paying NT$60k, and I will work from 7AM to 7PM… what are they, insane?”. No mate, but you are paying dues, and that’s not out of pocket money, but time at a relatively low wage.
After a few years of working for somebody else in Taiwan, I decided to set up a small trading operation, and you know guys? The same things apply. You ahve to pay your dues, make your mistakes and improve. Once you spent a few years doing that, you all of a sudden find more and more money coming you way. It takes patience, persistence, and smarts, however it certainly can be done.
Note that if you were to launch a cereer as a top marketing consultant, or a financial analyst in say the US, Denmark, or Canada, you would normally have to work a few years at long hours and for an average vage. That’s life. It ain’t that much different here, apart from the fact that there’s a respectable easy way out here, IE teaching.
[quote=“Mr He”]
Note that if you were to launch a cereer as a top marketing consultant, or a financial analyst in say the US, Denmark, or Canada, you would normally have to work a few years at long hours and for an average vage. That’s life. [/quote]
Applicable for lawyers, accountants also. Its a version of boot camp or internship
Excellent and wise advice.