[quote=“tinman”]No one doubts that there are Asians who speak English as well as any Caucasian. After all, language acquisition is not genetic. But do you deny that there are large numbers of Overseas Chinese who have the passports of English-speaking nations who have poor English skills?
You seem to have missed my point about parents, employers, and Chinese teachers. It is widely believed that this bias is the result of ignorance. It is not. It is the better speaking students of English, the parents who speak English, Chinese-English teachers themselves who promote the idea that ‘native speaker’ teachers are necessary. And they do this because they are aware that large numbers of Chinese teachers, overseas or local, are not the ‘real deal’.
Besides, as frustrating as it may seem in the beginning, there are many successful Overseas Chinese teachers of English in Taiwan. It’s all a matter of being able to demonstrate a high level of teaching ability[/quote]
Yes! but this is a huge oversimplification.
That’s great it someone will let you get into the classroom to demonstrate.
My GF gets offered $350 - 400 NT BECAUSE SHE IS ASIAN. I get offered $600 + BECAUSE I AM WHITE.
I get to do the demo and she doesn’t.
Her current boss is American. He can hear her Englsih ability. he has no problem of employing her as a foreign teacher.
My boss who is married to an American and speaks close to native speaker fluency, can hear my GF’s fluency and she wants to employ her.
But when she is interviewed by a Chinese person (who I am guessing cannot really tell the quality of her English she doesn’t get the job.
hmm… as an Asian-American, I face enough discrimination here in the United States. Looks like Taiwan won’t be any different. Oh well, life’s supposed to be a struggle. I’m still looking forward to my experience there. It’s actually kind of ironic. I thought it might be easier to get a job since I can speak some Mandarin. If my students couldn’t comprehend what I was saying in English I could always try my hand at Mandarin. Oh well, like someone posted earlier, the job market is different in Taiwan.
Reading everyone’s perspective on this issue has been quite insightful. I really appreciate it. I hope the locals there are as helpful as you Forumosans. Thanks again.
I used to work in a major chain school teaching higher level adults. In the interview the manager, who has been studying overseas for quite a few years, told me that he could hire me as a FT but I wasn’t allowed to speak any Chinese. He even said that I had to pretend not understanding any Chinese.
This is not because he had any doubts about my ability in teaching entirely in English. This is to reassure the students that my English is native. Plus somehow in Taiwan there’s a funny theory that if you use any Chinese in the classroom, the students are not going to learn the language well. (I know this is over-simplified but this is the gist of it.) Therefore I advice you not to use any Chinese when you teach, to save yourself a lot of trouble.
[quote=“GongChangZhang”]Of course you could always go for the lower paying Chinese teacheing job.
[/quote]
Which is only a hundred or two NT less, anyway. 400 NT per hour is still a prince’s wage by Taiwan standards. Let’s keep a little bit of perspective here. So you make 3 bucks less per hour than a guy who has a “better look” for a job than you. That’s life. I don’t get paid to be a model, either. Too ugly (i.e. normal guy looks). You get paid less because you aren’t white, blue-eyed, and blonde. Life isn’t fair. It sucks, but it is life.
Actually many parents Taipei do have a good grasp of English and are expecting more from a teacher than just being able to speak English natively. Especially if you are teaching young kids, your personality is just as important as your language skills. Educated parents can see beyond color and value teachers by the most imporant judge of all, their child. If you have a knack with kids (being able to sing is a plus!) or have previous experience with kids, I wouldn’t fret about not getting a job.
I used to work in a major chain school teaching higher level adults. In the interview the manager, who has been studying overseas for quite a few years, told me that he could hire me as a FT but I’m not allowed to speak any Chinese. He even said that I have to pretend not understanding any Chinese.
This is not because he had any doubts about my ability in teaching entirely in English. This is to reassure the students that my English is native. Plus somehow in Taiwan there’s a funny theory that if you use any Chinese in the classroom, the students are not going to learn the language well. (I know this is over-simplified but this is the gist of it.) Therefore I advice you not to use any Chinese when you teach, to save yourself a lot of trouble.[/quote]
I hope you didn’t teach writing…
The no chinese in the classroom rule is a relic from a bygone age. If you teach adults and can speak Chinese you should use it to check for understanding and to explain grammar points. It is also wonderful for the students if they can give you a word or a sentence in Chinese and get a translation into English from you. This is just natural, adult second language learning.
Woodchild probably one of your biggest assets as an English teacher is your Chinese ability. Why not find a place where they let you use it.
Yes bob, I totally agree. I don’t believe this theory thing I mentioned in my last post. I think, even for children, using Chinese to explain some grammar points is a lot better than using just English. Especially when there are parallels it is so easy for them to understand. However, like I said in my post, SOMEHOW there is this theory thing deeply entrenched in a lot of people’s mind that if you use any Chinese in class, the students are not going to learn well. Which is really a shame.
I would love to find a place that would recognise my English as a native speaker and still let me use Chinese. But like GongChang said, the pay would probably be much less than what I am getting now. I think I love the extra two / three hundred dollars per hour more than I do being able to use Chinese when teaching. :s
So do you have duel citizenship? If so is your Chinese completely fluent? The reason I’m asking is because I’m curious if you are a true Chinese-English bilingual why would you want to limit yourself to teaching English in Taiwan? Man, people like you are suppose to be hot commodities here! Unless you really enjoy teaching or have some sort of certification I can’t figure why you would want to continue working in a profession that you acknowledge has a “deeply entrenched” prejudice against your enthnicity? If you are looking for a “place” that makes full use of your biligual abilities why not try some multi-national corporation? The pay is supposedly good in these multi-nationals (comparable to English teaching, but with a 40 hour work week), with better benefits, better chance of promotion or getting a raise, and offers some sort of career path (this is especially important if you intend to return to the US and hope to find any kind of job that pays better than entry-level wages).
DW
PS: Like bob says your writing is not exactly up to par. You frequently mess up your tenses and make subtle grammar errors. Still do not take this as a diss; you’re writing is decent enough and I’m sure you speak just like a native.
[quote=“webdoctors”]Asian Americans are at a disadvantage cause TW are RACIST.
surprised no one said it earlier…U know its true…
if I hired only black people in my US company cause I had mostly African clients who arent used to dealing with whites, would that be ok?[/quote]
It wouldn’t be ok, but I think it should be.
If your company benefits from a dark skinned face for dark skinned customers, the government should leave you alone. At the very least for your sales team.
But if there is no such advantage for your business, you just give preference to a certain race, then I’m less opposed to such regulation. I would prefer government to keep out of business as much as possible, but the race problem may be an issue where self-regulation results in social problems. But with the example you gave, I’d hope the government would allow you to hire the candidate that would best benefit your company.
The practice in Taiwan is racist, but that’s because of a pereception of the parents. Schools recognize this perception and respond to the market. There are schools that hire Asian looking teachers and do just fine, but some other schools have difficulty with parents walking out if they don’t see the face they are expecting.
[quote=“bob”][quote=“Woodchild”][quote=“bob”]I hope you didn’t teach writing…
[/quote]
:raspberry: :raspberry: :raspberry:
My writing is much better than lots of native speakers.[/quote]
Please don’t take that too personally. I never teach writing either. Also I think you should get paid “more” for your Chinese ability not less.[/quote]
I have to agree. If the Chinese teacher has an acceptable English proficiency then the ability of fluent Chinese is “such a bonus” I pften need to use Chinese with some of my lower levels, it comes out as a sort of broken Chinese that is perhaps harder for them to understand than English.
It would benefit them so much more if I had better Chinese.
I know WC (not Water Closet :raspberry: ) personally and she is fluent in both languages.
I remember one time when we went out for dinner and a Canadian friend (who happened to have a gf from NZ) met WC for the first time. She said she had been in Taiwan for about three months (this was true as she had only just returned). Canadian friend was amazed at her fluency in Chinese when dealing with the waitress and asked WC where she learnt her Chinese. When she replied “In Taiwan” he was amazed at how fluent she had become in such a short time and asked which language school she went to and what method she used. He was absolutley flawed when she told him that she was actually Taiwanese.
(She was pretty happy about that though - ego, huh… )
Sorry, me Engrish no so good. Me no understand you’s story.
Anyhoo, you non-white people who are looking for work teaching English…have you gone to look for work yet? All this talk in this thread is going around in circles and soon it’s going to turn into well the western world is so much more tolerating and Taiwan is so racist blah blah blah. Duh, tell us something we DON’T know.
Let us know how you make out looking for work. Seriously. There’s no point going back and forth and complaining and whining and accusing and gloating if you have not actually experienced the process of job-hunting. (Kudos to you if you have.)
I know of one guy with jaw-droppingly fluent English who went to interviews for almost 3 months before finding teaching work.
His school changed hands and he’s being let go because he’s not white.
If you know of specific places looking for teachers in the morning, that don’t mind if the teacher is from Taiwan, and are towards the central/south part of Taipei please PM me.
Sorry, me Engrish no so good. Me no understand you’s story. [/quote]
Sorry, the point is that a native English speaker who had a gf with the same accent as WC (Woodchild) did not pick up that she was a non-native English speaker, despite her Chinese looks and her fluency in Chinese. Her English is GOOD!
[quote]
Anyhoo, you non-white people who are looking for work teaching English…have you gone to look for work yet? All this talk in this thread is going around in circles and soon it’s going to turn into well the western world is so much more tolerating and Taiwan is so racist blah blah blah. Duh, tell us something we DON’T know.
Let us know how you make out looking for work. Seriously. There’s no point going back and forth and complaining and whining and accusing and gloating if you have not actually experienced the process of job-hunting. (Kudos to you if you have.)[/quote]
This is a little harsh for those who try school after school and face the rejection nearly everyday. Slighly disappointing post from a poster I usually enjoy so much.
[quote=“GongChangZhang”]This is a little harsh for those who try school after school and face the rejection nearly everyday. Slighly disappointing post from a poster I usually enjoy so much.
I guess we all have our moments.[/quote]
Sorry, GongChangZhang I don’t want to disappoint you! Ahh…the pressure!
Like I said, people looking for work: persevere, persevere, persevere. Don’t let something like color/ignorance hold you back. One school won’t take you? You’re better than that, move on to another school or other opportunities. Those of you that know me know I can say this.
It may or not be okay but it might also involve qualifications. Can your employees relate properly with your clients? If they can’t, then they ought not be employees.
If employees are required to have a certain base of knowledge–and this has nothing to do with skin color–they why shouldn’t employees be expected to have these qualifications regardless of skin color?
)
I don’t want to disappoint you! Ahh…the pressure!