Are foreigners allowed to participate in political campaigns

Perhaps, but then again, “expressing one’s political beliefs” and taking part in the political campaign of a foreign state are also two arguably different things. I’ve taken this conversation to be about the latter, and while I might not necessarily agree, I think Taiwan is within its rights to restrict this activity.[/quote]
Well, if you’re talking about what’s within Taiwan’s rights, then I guess they could punish shoplifters with the lash. That’s not what beebee was asking. He was asking if other countries allowed foreigners to participate in election campaigns (not government), and I said some do.

So it seems that there is some sort of political participation for foreigners residing in both US and Canada.

However, it’s the level of degree that they can participate which is confusing, right.

For example, the US Federal statute (adoption of BCRA - Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act) actually does prohibit persons who are neither U.S. citizens nor permanent residents from contributing any money to candidates for state or federal office, or to American political parties. So does it mean you can’t contribute but you are permitted to participate in election-related activities. Further it’s also a known fact that some foreign countries actually contribute lavishly in monetary terms towards certain political parties via lobby groups. Again the policy seems biased and unjustifiable when it’s ‘alright’ to contribute if it’s from friendly allies but notably, if it’s from China, Russia or even Indonesia, it’s a flat ban.

If we take Europe as the next case study, I believe that it’s absolutely sure that foreigners are not permitted at all in political-related activities. In fact it’s not difficult to arouse suspicion that anti-immigration form the greater political platform of certain major parties in Europe.

Coming back to Taiwan, there is some anxieties of the people in the street that some foreigners just got carried away by their enthusiasm in their political involvement. Even in the daily paper like Taiwan Times, the number of political comments posted by foreigners is exceedingly exaggerating. Curiosity I’ve yet to see any poll being taken on this political sideline.
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[quote=“beebee”]So it seems that there is some sort of political participation for foreigners residing in both US and Canada.

However, it’s the level of degree that they can participate which is confusing, right.

For example, the US Federal statute (adoption of BCRA - Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act) actually does prohibit persons who are neither U.S. citizens nor permanent residents from contributing any money to candidates for state or federal office, or to American political parties. So does it mean you can’t contribute but you are permitted to participate in election-related activities. Further it’s also a known fact that some foreign countries actually contribute lavishly in monetary terms towards certain political parties via lobby groups. Again the policy seems biased and unjustifiable when it’s ‘alright’ to contribute if it’s from friendly allies but notably, if it’s from China, Russia or even Indonesia, it’s a flat ban.

If we take Europe as the next case study, I believe that it’s absolutely sure that foreigners are not permitted at all in political-related activities. In fact it’s not difficult to arouse suspicion that anti-immigration form the greater political platform of certain major parties in Europe.

Coming back to Taiwan, there is some anxieties of the people in the street that some foreigners just got carried away by their enthusiasm in their political involvement. Even in the daily paper like Taiwan Times, the number of political comments posted by foreigners is exceedingly exaggerating. Curiosity I’ve yet to see any poll being taken on this political sideline.
.[/quote]

This shows how far out of the loop Taiwan is and some of your ideas are.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6251094.stm

By the way, that Nigerian mayor is not even a citizen, he hold a resident permit only.

The fact that foreigners cannot participate here (in a non-monetary way) in Taiwan in political campaigns seems to be pure racism and paranoia to me.
We live and work here, some of us for 5, 10, 20 years…due to Taiwanese law it’s very difficult to possess a Taiwanese passport. We pay taxes, contribute to economic development and have families and children here. In most countries 5-7 years residence with a continuous work record is enough to start applying for a passport. Also after marriage many countries will allow the spouse a passport within 3 years continuous residence. We don’t have any restrictions on foreigners participating in political campaigns in the EU.

Yet Taiwanese emigrants who haven’t lived here in Taiwan for decades can fly back to vote and then fly out again the next day…while possessing two passports and paying no taxes in Taiwan and showing little loyalty to their home place beyond economic interest…that to me is unfair and plain wrong.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
God almighty! Are these the depths yet? Has beebee plumbed absolute bottom?

[quote=“beebee”]Apologizing if I sound offensive.

Look around at those pro-DPP websites like View from Taiwan, A-Gu blah blah. Are they run by foreigners or what? It doesn’t matter whether they’ve Taiwanese spouse or not, but they are still foreigner in all aspects. Maybe they have some ulterior motives (paid by CIA again?) to sow discord and disunity in Taiwan society and/or between Taiwan and China based on their tainted and unbalanced reports in the same manner as Radio Free Asia.
.[/quote]

You are hilarious man, unfortunately your views are probably echoed in most peoples minds here including Ministry of Foreign Affairs, stuck in a mindset from 50 years ago and no idea how to work PR in the international community. Radio Free Asia, what the hell is that :unamused:

[quote=“headhonchoII”]This shows how far out of the loop Taiwan is and some of your ideas are.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6251094.stm[/quote]
Oh, I do see your point here. Especially for UK, I understand there is a fair number of immigrants who eventually rose to hold some positions in political scene. On continental Europe, I am not sure whether it’s that impressive. Delving on, there may be some differences between immigrants who intend to stay on in their adopted homeland, and foreigners (especially in Taiwan) who came here for greener pasture and then eventually settled down for good. The matter need to be scrutinized further.

Let the debate goes on…
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:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
God almighty! Are these the depths yet? Has beebee plumbed absolute bottom?[/quote]
Mighty Sand. Give everybody a break. You can always rebuke the case by presenting your fact.
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:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
God almighty! Are these the depths yet? Has beebee plumbed absolute bottom?[/quote]
Mighty Sand. Give everybody a break. You can always rebuke the case by presenting your fact.
.[/quote]
Sandy, you forgot the simple rule: West BAD. China GOOD. Correct application of this rule will ensure the appropriate answer to all your questions.

beebee, since when you lived in Europe to see foreigners not participating in political campaigns…

For god sake, they are working onto letting everyone vote in the country where they reside… so if you are a Finnish living in Spain, you can vote for municipal elections, and even be elected.

If you talk about non-EU people, I know lots of people supporting the extreme-left wing party in Portugal that are not citizens, and participating in the campaigns, doing shows, whatever they want… never heard that it was forbidden for them.

So, in Taiwan, if you want to participate in a “high-five” or “troll-around-Taiwan-tour” campaign, you cannot? That is amazing… I was with a green shirt with a thumb on the back outside the poll station, and no one did anything to me…

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
God almighty! Are these the depths yet? Has beebee plumbed absolute bottom?[/quote]
Mighty Sand. Give everybody a break. You can always rebuke the case by presenting your fact.
.[/quote]
Well, to be absolutely fair, I was going to, er, “rebuke the case by presenting my fact” until I remembered that I’d get a ticking-off from maoman if I wrote: “beebee, you’re talking utter shite and you obviously don’t have a chimney flue what the hell you’re gibbering on about.”
“Foreigners who come here for greener pastures…” What the fuck does this mean? Are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell us that the wonderful Chinese, for example, don’t emigrate “for greener pastures”? Why DO they emigrate for, then? Why do you look down your nose so much at people who seek to improve their lot?
And yes, I’m well aware that despite living here with my Taiwanese family for over two decades, I’m still regarded as nothing but a bignose. Put that down to the dumb, xenophobic, twats that make up so much of the population here.

[quote=“beebee”][quote=“headhonchoII”]This shows how far out of the loop Taiwan is and some of your ideas are.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6251094.stm[/quote]
Oh, I do see your point here. Especially for UK, I understand there is a fair number of immigrants who eventually rose to hold some positions in political scene. On continental Europe, I am not sure whether it’s that impressive. Delving on, there may be some differences between immigrants who intend to stay on in their adopted homeland, and foreigners (especially in Taiwan) who came here for greener pasture and then eventually settled down for good. The matter need to be scrutinized further.

Let the debate goes on…
.[/quote]

Ireland is not in the UK ya big dope

[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“beebee”][quote=“headhonchoII”]This shows how far out of the loop Taiwan is and some of your ideas are.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6251094.stm[/quote]
Oh, I do see your point here. Especially for UK, I understand there is a fair number of immigrants who eventually rose to hold some positions in political scene. On continental Europe, I am not sure whether it’s that impressive. Delving on, there may be some differences between immigrants who intend to stay on in their adopted homeland, and foreigners (especially in Taiwan) who came here for greener pasture and then eventually settled down for good. The matter need to be scrutinized further.

Let the debate goes on…
.[/quote]

Ireland is not in the UK ya big dope[/quote]

Greener Pastures. Take my country for example. Earning per head is about 3 times Taiwan. Ireland is environmentally about 50 years ahead of Taiwan. Ireland is called the Emerald Isle while Taiwan is known as one of the most crowded polluted nations (esp. the cities) on earth. I didn’t come here for GREENER PASTURES.
What are you on about? Talk about stereotyping. There’s 1000s of foreigners like me who come from more advanced and better off countries. We contribute more than all the rich Taiwanese who emigrate as soon as they get the chance, meanwhile they don’t even bother complaining about fixing pavements on their streets because they are so busy working all day and all night to save their money to emigrate toyour GREENER PASTURES.
Anyway it doesn’t matter if somebody came from a better off or worse off country. The fact that they are in Taiwan says a lot about most foreigners characters because believe you me Taiwan is not a regular holiday destination or retirement home. Most westerners would not be able to live here long but the ones that do, generally speaking, are the ones who have the strongest character and ability to learn and adapt and be open minded. It’s also the foreigners who brought environmental consciousness to Taiwan first. Why do you think it takes National Geographic to show the status of endangered animals in Taiwan such as the Taiwan Black Bear and protection of the Indo-Pacific Dolphin and the Whale Shark? I think you must have a massive chip on your shoulder about something.

:laughing:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: … :loco:

maybe because foreigners didn’t get years of KMT brainwashing, we are still able to do political comments, in numbers bee-or-not-to-bee cannot understand…

I still want to see the greener pastures he is talking about… I will give him a walk around Luxembourg, in case he wants to see greener pastures…

I read through the entire post and am as confused as ever. The following points are clear (but I knew all this before)…

  1. Anyone can go to a political rally in Taiwan - I think Chewy’s picture of Taiwanese in Seattle was of a rally, so we have the same rights here.
  2. You can participate in that rally.
  3. Non-native Taiwanese can receive citizenship, but they have to give up any other passports they hold.
  4. I also believe that foreign residents and tourists can join a political party.

Where I get confused is…

  1. What is it that foreign residents and tourists can not do at a political rally?
  2. While some countries have liberal immigration and political rights, why does anyone believe that Taiwan is more restrictive than many other countries? A large number of countries have strong diplomatic relations with Canada/USA even though they do not provide reciprocal immigration arrangements. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis for a list of countries with Jus Sanguinis citizenship arrangements.

All this talk about limits on foreign participation in ROC politics dates back to 1999 when the president of Harvard University spoke at a Ma rally. He was not deported, although the Taipei Times and other pro-Green media stated he should have been. A second incident occurred around the 2004 presidential election. A Nobel laureate was actually deported for speaking at a rally in support of VP Liu. I could find no references to these incidents.

I had always assumed that foreign residents and tourists in Taiwan are forbidden from publicly endorsing a candidate and that pretty much anything else is OK.

Really? Who?

The only thing like that I can recall like is a Nobelist (Ramos-Horta) being denied entry into Taiwan way back in 1998. (Would he have backed Chen for another term as mayor?)

I might be wrong, but all my Taiwanese friends seem to have heard of this, as well.

I still want to know what Taiwan does that is so out of step with the rest of the world. Certainly I wish it was different here, but I would have the same complaint in many other countries.

While unrelated to our topic, and dealing primarily with labour rights, this paper calstatela.edu/centers/ckaks … _paper.pdf makes it very clear that Taiwan is not the only state with exclusionary migration practices.

Once again, I wish it were otherwise. I would like to contribute politically to Taiwan. I feel terrible watching overseas Chinese get preferential treatment. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…but the exclusion from political rights experienced here is not anything special, and I am surprised at that such a discussion could have continued so long.

[quote=“ScottSommers”]While unrelated to our topic, and dealing primarily with labour rights, this paper calstatela.edu/centers/ckaks … _paper.pdf makes it very clear that Taiwan is not the only state with exclusionary migration practices.

Once again, I wish it were otherwise. I would like to contribute politically to Taiwan. I feel terrible watching overseas Chinese get preferential treatment. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…but the exclusion from political rights experienced here is not anything special, and I am surprised at that such a discussion could have continued so long.[/quote]

Why I posted this was because I saw an article in the Taipei Times where the CEC (central election commission sp.) was quoted as warning foreigners not to get on the platforms with candidates and stating that is was illegal for foreigners to get involved in political campaigns in Taiwan. Yet we regularly see foreigners participating in political rallies here although not speaking usually and I saw at least two foreigner speaking in political campain ads on TV. But surely if you are married you have the right because they cannot argue that it is against your marriage visa open work permit, unless your wife is pro the other party or something :slight_smile:
I’m bored with foreigners participation in the media, look at all the crap talk shows and boring ICRT ‘we speak english slowly’ radio, nobody ever says anything about politics or about environmental degredation or poor rights for Chinese spouses and labourers and caretakers, it’s worse than communist China (I know because I temporarily worked in a high school here once where I was officially ‘warned’ not to mention anything about the status of Taiwan because some kid complained (who knows what i said but I was always very non-partisan!!!).

Well, from my limited experience, restricted to the campaign against the shifting of all those leaking barrels of nuclear waste from Orchid Island to a nice safe fault line in Dawu, Taidong (conveniently as far from the voters in Taipei as you can be on this island) we were told by the FAP that

a) foreigners could not participate in any political activity in Taiwan but

b) in this case it would be okay if we were accompanying our Taiwan spouses because then we’d be considered to be acting as legal surrogates for our children.

Go figure.