Are Mainlanders racist?

I agree. There a lot of Waishengren that hate Japan still for the Rape of Nanjing among other things that Japan did in China. Their children were also taught to hate the Japanese. Not all of the WSR of course hate Japan but I have met a few and a few others that love the place. Anyone notice that the WSR that hate Japan usually drive big America luxury cars too.

Of course Taiwanese are the opposite, both young and old. All of the ones I met are Harizhu (Japanophiles) although I have heard some of the Taiwan women say that Japanese society treat women poorly and they are perverts, but then are most men? :laughing:

As far as racism of Waishengren towards Taiwanren I have heard about it, but never witnessed it firsthand. I have see what I thought was hate in their eyes towards Taiwanese, or at least a look of them thinking they are better than others, but they might always look like that. Maybe someone should trick some into thinking you also think Taiwanren are low class or something like that and see if they open up?

I respect people in Europe for their forgiveness.

But I am wondering: how did they do it?

Some people in Taiwan can’t even forgive 228?

How many French and English die in WWII because of Nazi?
I guess it must be much much more than people who die in 228.
But I think most French and English think it’s the Nazi, not all the German who’s to blame.

For 228, some “old or dead” KMT members did it, it has nothing to do with the KMT now.

Actually, more British and French died in WWI, perhaps the most pointless and senseless mutual mass slaughter in history.

And not all Europeans are so ready to forgive and forget. Take a look at former Yugoslavia…

Comparing 228 and the WSR to the Germans is different in one way among others because after WWII they hunted and imprisoned the Nazi war criminals and the German schools have been teaching their children about the atrocities commited during the Nazi era.

Quite differently, I do not think one KMT member was ever imprisoned for the White Terror period and the 228 massacre. Likewise, this whole period was left out Taiwan textbooks until recently, or have they still not put it into the text books?

Finally, by way of the Legislative Yuan, it could be said that the KMT Nazis still control government (Legislature) here.

Whilst I agree with your point, that is a bit of exaggeration. Governor Chen Yi was executed for starters.

Brian

That was for 228? OK, I didn’t say it was a fact, I said I thought not one was executed. What about the White Terror, anyone sentenced to prison or death for that?

[quote]What about the White Terror, anyone sentenced to prison or death for that?
[/quote]

Well at least two of those involved int he murder of Henry Liu (which I guess is one fo the more notorious White Terror incidents) were sentenced. I think it may have been more.

Brian

Whilst I agree with your point, that is a bit of exaggeration. Governor Chen Yi was executed for starters.

Brian[/quote]

Chen Yi was absolutely NOT exectuted for anything to do with 228. Chen was censured by the Central Executive Committee of the KMT in March 1947 for his incompetence in letting 228 happen. He resigned, but CKS, a past beneficiary of Chen, pulled strings to have him appointed governor of Zhejiang, a post he took over in May 1947. As the civil war worsened Chen Yi began to flirt with the Communists, probably to guarantee a soft landing for himself should the KMT cause collapse which, by the end of 1948, seemed pretty likely. In early January 1949 Chen told the commander of the Shanghai-Nanking-Hangchow Garrison Command, Tang En-po, to stop drafting soldiers and building fortifications in the area. Tang was shocked as this seemed preparatory to handing over the area, lock, stock and barrel, to the Communists. He informed General Mao Jen-fang who in his turn told CKS. Chen Yi was arrested on Feb 23, 1949. He was transferred to Taiwan on April 29, 1949. A military tribunal found him guilty of consorting with the Communists and he was eventually executed by firing squad on June 18, 1950. So I repeat, Chen Yi’s fate had nothing to do with 228.

It is true that National Intelligence Bureau chief Wang Hsi-ling and two of his henchmen were jailed as a result of the Henry Liu murder. But they were soon paroled and while in prison were actually promoted(!).

[quote=“cybertai”]
Some people in Taiwan can’t even forgive 228?

How many French and English die in WWII because of Nazi?
I guess it must be much much more than people who die in 228.
But I think most French and English think it’s the Nazi, not all the German who’s to blame.

For 228, some “old or dead” KMT members did it, it has nothing to do with the KMT now.[/quote]
KMT hasn’t even asked for forgiveness. Nothing but crocodile tears. Hell, I’m not even sure the Taiwan Garrison Command ever even released the names of all those they murdered or abducted.

Oops, I stand corrected. Anyway, I did state in the first place that I agree with the main point being made, which was that the difference between Taiwan forgiving and forgetting invasion by Japan and the KMT, and the attitude of Europe towards Germany, IS mostly that Japan, and the KMT, unlike Germany, have not apologised, made amends, educated their people, and also have a certain amount of continuity between the old regimes and the new. (Sorry, for that incredibly long sentence).

Brian

[quote=“mod lang”]
And not all Europeans are so ready to forgive and forget. Take a look at former Yugoslavia…[/quote]

Those who can not forgive usually live a painful life. :astonished:

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]

Oops, I stand corrected. Anyway, I did state in the first place that I agree with the main point being made, which was that the difference between Taiwan forgiving and forgetting invasion by Japan and the KMT, and the attitude of Europe towards Germany, IS mostly that Japan, and the KMT, unlike Germany, have not apologised, made amends, educated their people, and also have a certain amount of continuity between the old regimes and the new.[/quote]

It’s a face thing. When have you ever heard of Asians apologize? The Japanese don’t even recognize comfort women.
english.chosun.com/w21data/html/ … 70001.html

Lots of Taiwanese hate Japanese, but I think they’re impressed by them at the same time. Or at least impressed by their ‘work ethic’.
I also think that Chinese THINK that they’re far more progressive than Japanese in as far as women’s rights and traditions, but I’d beg to differ about that. Taiwanese generally have the same type of stereotypical view of Japanese as they do westerners. But I would reckon that Japanese in Japan are more racist toward Chinese in their country than vice versa, according to what I know about their society.

Mainlanders are too busy being proud to hate anyone. Rather, they’re just “superior”.

Sorry for the off-topic question, but do you really think there is much hatred to Japan in Taiwan? I can’t say I’ve seen it. If anything there is not the outrage I would expect when the “Comfort women” issue comes up. The attitude of most Taiwanese seems (to me) remarkably mild: “Sure, the Japanese raped our women, then Chiang murdered us by the thousand, but that’s history; I’m still going to vote KMT and buy that Sony laptop.”[/quote]

In terms of cruelty, the Taiwanese experience has been that the atrocities committed by KMT in the 228 purges far exceeded any of the acts committed by the Japanese. The objective behind the 228 masacres was not to quell the protests in Taiwan, but to humiliate, brutalize, and force into submission the native Taiwanese population. This was accomplished by:

  1. Murdering the leadership class: the doctors, judges, and civic leaders who had protested Chinese corruption and confiscation of Taiwanese properties and businesses [This was decribed in George Kerr’s Formosa Betrayed].

  2. Raping women who too were members of this class, the wives and daughters of the above [This was alluded to in Kerr’s Formosa Betrayed, and more explicitly described in Jack Belden’s China Shakes the World]. Rape of women by Chinese soldiers even prior to 228 was descibed in Allan Shackleton’s Formosa Calling, but they were not targeted for sexual assault for the purpose of degrading an entire nation until the aftermath of 228.

  3. Torture and mutilation of Taiwanese men, who were castrated before being put to death in the most excrutiating manner [Also described in Formosa Betrayed and China Shakes the World].

The issue of comfort women drafted into Japanese brothels is a delicate one, because even though the Japanese destroyed many individual lives, the intent was still not the same as those of the Chinese troops: namely to humiliate and brutalize the Taiwanese as a people. In Japan, the military abducted women from the Japanese countryside to force into prostitution and spared the women of established families. A similar practice was put into effect in Taiwan.

The upshot is that though the KMT exploits Taiwanese comfort women for their own ends, they too had set up their own version of ‘comfort women’ in Taiwan. The offshore islands near military bases were known as “military paradises” because they were the site of military brothels that the KMT had put into place; the women who served in those brothels were also recruited and forced into their circumstances from poor and indigent families. That the KMT would raise the spectre of Japan’s treatment of comfort women to deflect attention from their own rapacious behavior in 228, while overlooking their own culpability in enacting military brothels, testifies to the sophistry and bankruptcy that the KMT indulges in.

I don’t think the Taiwanese are cavalier about these historical memories, but there is only so much they can discuss with outsiders—and even with insiders.

[quote=“ludahai”]
I don’t sense a hatred of the Japanese among most of my friends here in Taichung (Taizhong), in fact, many of them admire the Japanese. Occasionally, I will meet an elderly Taiwanese who doesn’t speak Mandarin and I have to get by with them with my high school Japanese. Surprisingly, it works— a little — when I am trying to get something to eat in my wife’s hometown.[/quote]

It is not surprising that Taiwanese would speak relatively benevolently of the Japanese. The Japanese had settled upon Taiwan for the purpose of administering a colony, to build up its infrastructure, and develop the island. As Taiwanese subjects were nominally part of the Japanese Empire, they were never subject to the depredations that the Chinese in Nanjing experienced. And never did they experience under the Japanese the depredations of the ROC troops in 228.

Russia has never apologized for its treatment of Berlin, which included raping as much of the female population as they could manage. Turkey has never apologized for Armenia, let alone any of their ongoing pogroms. And the Jews never apologize for anything. (The Russians put them in charge of concentration camps for Germans after the war, where they behaved predictably. And of course Communism pre-Stalin was their baby.) Yet the West shrugs its collective shoulders and thinks “no big deal.” What gives Asia longer memories?

Oh,so the Jews should be apologising to the Germans?
What was that about being banned for Holocaust Denial?

As will I.

I was happy to read the other day that CSB picked up 20% of the mainlander vote in the election. Perhaps the days of mainlanders voting on strictly ethnic lines are ending. If so, this is a very positive trend for Taiwan amidst all the doom and gloom about spurious ethnic conflict. Sorry I can’t cite a source for that figure.

If they start to vote along class/interest lines, then it’s good, the Taiwanren have been doing so for some time. After all, the best thing would be if this “new Taiwanren” thing took off, and they all started to see their interests in a broader scope than just ethinicity.

Are US citizens or foreigners also entitled to be called “New Taiwanese”?

Anyone, who speaks for Taiwan, fights for Taiwan, and helps Taiwan to become a free, democratic, law abiding society, is entitled to be called