Are Mormons Christians?

[Screaming_Jesus]

Hold on now, Brother Wildcard–what’s wrong with Freemasonry?

For the sake of comparison, here are a few other groups with ties to the J-Man:

GROUP: Islam
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? No
WORSHIP JESUS? No
REVERE JESUS? Yes, as a human prophet
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? Whoo boy

GROUP: Hinduism
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? No
WORSHIP JESUS? No
REVERE JESUS? Most would assume him to be a holy figure
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? Cow urine, even funnier underwear that the Mormons

GROUP: Sananda Fellowship
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? Don’t think so
WORSHIP JESUS? Yes
REVERE JESUS? Yes
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? He’s a space alien

GROUP: Unification Church
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? Yes
WORSHIP JESUS? Yes
REVERE JESUS? Yes
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? Reverend Moone is the Second Coming of Christ

GROUP: Scientology
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? No, don’t think so
WORSHIP JESUS? Well, he’s depicted positively in “What is Scientology?” but apparently later
REVERE JESUS? courses reveal all religion to be the creation of Xenu
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? My Mom is a Scientologist

GROUP: Church Universal and Triumphant
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? Yes…but also Hindu, Buddhist, etc.
WORSHIP JESUS? Yes
REVERE JESUS? Yes, as one of many Ascended Masters of the Himalayan Brotherhood
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? Jesus used to be trance-channeled by Elizabeth Clare Prophet

GROUP: Unitarian Universalists
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? Occasionally, maybe
WORSHIP JESUS? Occasionally, maybe
REVERE JESUS? If pressed on the matter
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? “Why don’t you become a Unitarian? They don’t have to believe in anything!”

GROUP: Cathy-licks
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? Yes, except when speaking Chinese
WORSHIP JESUS? Yes, through perverse practices of exaggerated self-mortification and garish bloody iconography
REVERE JESUS? In theory–but only as a symbol of their own hierarchy
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? Men should wear skirts

GROUP: Jehovah’s Witnesses
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? Yes, in fact they are the only true Christians–all others belong to “Christendom”
WORSHIP JESUS? No, worship belongs only to Jehovah God.
REVERE JESUS? Yes
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? You too can live in God’s paradise on earth…blood transfusions, pyramid prophecy, and a woman rides the beast

GROUP: LDS Mormons
CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN? In big block-letters on their official stationery
WORSHIP JESUS? Apparently so
REVERE JESUS? Apparently so
BELIEVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN MY MOM? See entire thread

So obviously, we cannot pursue this topic any further without the participation of my mother.

[politbureau]

I’d like to ask your mom if she thinks her son is capable of being an objective observer of Christian denominations given that he calls himself ‘Screaming Jesus.’

[R_Daneel_Olivaw]

@Quentin

[quote]Many of the things recorded in these books

…are simply copyings of the Old Testament, verbatim. Around 50% of the Book of Mormon is re-recordings of the Torah. The other half is sub-literate bullshit. Ask any remotely insightful scholar.

I don’t understand you, Mr. Isaac Asimov’s robot. Why do you consistently play the Devil’s Advocate towards stuff that you beyond obviously don’t believe in?[/quote]
If you’re referring to LDS doctrine specifically, I do believe in it. I still consider myself to be LDS, despite not being active or living my life the way I should.

But you’re right. I do play Devil’s Advocate for a lot of beliefs I don’t share. Mainly it’s because I believe in tolerance, and I think a poorly made argument should be challenged. If an LDS person made an argument against another faith or atheism and it was lacking in merit, I’d very politely try and explain what I thought to be the deficiencies of the argument.

That, and I just love a good debate. Emphasis on “good”. Debates that suck give me no joy.

[yamato]

@R. Daneel Olivaw

[quote=“yamato”][quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]For those of you reading this thread and actually hoping to know whether or not Mormons are Christian or not, you should not take most posts here seriously. Several of those attempting to explain Mormon doctrine have gotten things wrong. Certainly some of it is right, but enough is wrong that you’d want to check each and every fact before making any conclusions.

Would you care to share with the rest of us, which of the posts before your post contained ‘wrong’ information?[/quote]
Yours specifically.
[/quote]

Well now you’ve gona and done it, don’t ya?

so let’s have a look at your post in detail shall we?

You were wrong about several details. Not that you couldn’t use the correct facts and mock it just as much, the fact you don’t really know what you’re talking about on this issue means you’ve gotten your information from third-party sources and just accepted what you read on blind-faith without actually seeing if it were true or not. Either that or you’re intentionally giving false information, which would be worse.

facts? I didn’t think there were any ‘facts’ as this is religion, right? How do you know I got my info from 3rd party sources? I read that in the book of mormon actually and I also talked to mormons who told me some of this stuff. It’s also highly entertaining that you accuse me of ‘blind faith’.

I’m not going to get into Mormon apologetics here, so I’ll only address the actual mistakes, not the mis-characterizations.

Heaven: It’s not three planets of gold, silver, and bronze. It’s three degrees of glories like the sun, moon, and stars.

So it’s not three planets because it’s 3 degrees…like…erm…the sun the moon and the stars?..and what would they be again…the sun and moon and stars that is?..OMG! they are planets! well look at that! :bravo:

Mormons don’t believe people who are basically good but have flaws, or are really good but just won’t accept their version of God burn in hell forever. Instead, they think only a very limited number of really evil beings will spend forever in hell, and everyone else just suffers hell until their sins are paid for and then go to heaven. The kind of person you are will determine the nature of the heaven you are in, with those who were more righteous enjoying a higher level of happiness in heaven.

I didn’t even talk about this! I asid that guys can bring their wives up to ‘planet gold’ but the reverse is not true. am i wrong about that?

[quote]
It wasn’t black people having angered God so he made them black. But don’t worry, you can get just as angry about what Mormons really believe. Many Mormons really believe the black skin was the mark of Cain and the black skin was a warning not to kill him. You can get angry about that, cause that’s truly what many Mormons believe, although it’s not actually a doctrine of the church. It’s still believed by many in the church because it was an opinion held by early church leaders. Not surprisingly, it was a popular belief at the time among Protestants.[/quote]
No it wasn’t ‘black people’ you’re right. But god did turn people black as a punishment, right? As you admit? And mormons didn’t allow blacks in until very late on. I’m not sure if you are ‘correcting’ me here, because it sounds like you’re just helping my argue my cause.

Let me throw a few moer factoids out there!

The book of mormon has sections set in south America…oddly it describes animals only found in America at that time…cows, horses etc…no mention of lhama’s and the like. Weird huh?
it is written in Jacobean English…like the new testemant, though the new testment often used is the ‘king James’ version, hence this English makes sense.
despite using his best Jacobean god apparently couldn’t master the grammar and got his 'ye/thou/thee’s all mixed up.
Why has the book of mormon been revised and edited so many times? It’s not like it needs translating from hebrew or ancient greek, right? It was noly written 200 yeas ago!
The book claims that native Americans are the lost tribe of Israel…yet there is no DNA evidence that could back this up as native Americans are genetically similar to Asians.

[yamato]

oh an in asnwer to the OP’s question, that’s a big fat NO! They are not christians.

They may believe themselves to be, but christain’s wouldn’t agree because mormonism disagrees with so many of the central tenents of Christianity, like trinity, omnipetence, immactulate conception, etc etc etc.

[color=green]Mod note: Corrected misspelling which was insulting to Mormons.[/color]

[Dragonbones]

@yamato

moronism disagrees with so many of the central tenents of Christianity, like trinity, omnipetence, immactulate conception, etc etc etc.

Are you so sure they are central? Are they so central that they were part of the belief system of the first couple generations of Christians, or were they later additions to the dogma and therefore not really so ‘central’?

[Screaming_Jesus]

Yamato:

So it’s not three planets because it’s 3 degrees…like…erm…the sun the moon and the stars?..and what would they be again…the sun and moon and stars that is?..OMG! they are planets! well look at that!

You have a bright career ahead of you in astronomy, or astrology, or whatever it’s called.

PS. Here’s Pastor Deacon Fred of Landover Baptist Church, telling us what’s wrong with Mormons and all them other heathen religions:

tw.youtube.com/watch?v=BBlDYz1HI … re=related

[TheGingerMan]

@Dragonbones

[quote=“yamato”]moronism disagrees with so many of the central tenents of Christianity, like trinity, omnipetence, immactulate conception, etc etc etc.

Are you so sure they are central? Are they so central that they were part of the belief system of the first couple generations of Christians, or were they later additions to the dogma and therefore not really so ‘central’?[/quote]
Seconded!
Polemics do not make a tenet.

[TainanCowboy]

[quote=“wildcard”]Any religion connected to Freemasonary is nothing more than a cult.[/quote]WC -
Are you on the level saying this?

I can’t seem to square this with anything I’ve read.

[jdsmith]

I need a wall.

[TheGingerMan]

if you build it, they will come…

[jdsmith]

will they clean it up?

[TainanCowboy]

…don’t play with that!

[Jack_Burton]

Edited:

Jesus visiting N.America?

Angels visiting Mr. Smith?

N.Americans being some lost tribe?

What else would sharply deviate from orthodox Christian tenets?

[Dragonbones]

I would like to remind posters that we may well have some Mormon friends among our readers and posters; I believe a friendly reminder of the Rules is in order in such a thread, not directed at anyone in particular:

[quote]Bigotry
Do not post hateful, racist, sexist, homophobic, ethnic, or anti-religious (including anti-agnostic and anti-atheistic) bigotry. Unambiguous expressions of bigotry will be deleted, and will often result in the immediate suspension and possible banning of the individual responsible. …
When discussing race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion, please exercise the appropriate level of sensitivity toward others and take extra care to clearly express your point of view in a non-hateful manner. This will help avoid misunderstandings and undeserved accusations of bigotry. [/quote]

[yamato]

@Dragonbones

[quote=“yamato”]moronism disagrees with so many of the central tenents of Christianity, like trinity, omnipetence, immactulate conception, etc etc etc.

Are you so sure they are central? Are they so central that they were part of the belief system of the first couple generations of Christians, or were they later additions to the dogma and therefore not really so ‘central’?[/quote]

to be honest I don’t know, nor do i really care…I’m not religious. Whether they became central later is not really important as what I was getting as is that mormons don’t believe things that christians are supposed to believe.

As for the planets things well…I guess I guess I don’t know my planets from stars or whatever, but the picture I saw in a book the mormons left around my house by accident, clearly had pictures of gold silver and bronze planets.

[Dragonbones]

Not all Christians are trinitarians. Just because trinitarianism is the mainstream view doesn’t make it the only view. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarian

[Screaming_Jesus]

[quote]Jesus visiting N.America?

Angels visiting Mr. Smith?

N.Americans being some lost tribe?

What else would sharply deviate from orthodox Christian tenets?[/quote]

I wasn’t aware that orthodox Christianity had an opinion about pre-Columbian America. And why shouldn’t angels have visited Mr. Smith? But tritheism would be pushing things…

[Jack_Burton]

@Screaming Jesus

I wasn’t aware that orthodox Christianity had an opinion about pre-Columbian America. And why shouldn’t angels have visited Mr. Smith? But tritheism would be pushing things…

I didn’t say the Orthodox Church (ie Greek Orthodox).

Probably because Mr. Smith was a liar.

[R_Daneel_Olivaw]

@yamato

facts? I didn’t think there were any ‘facts’ as this is religion, right?

Um, wrong. There are many facts in religion. For example, it is a fact that Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is the word of God. It is a fact that Buddhists believe in karma. There are also historical facts that can be either be true or false.

And your facts were off.

How do you know I got my info from 3rd party sources? I read that in the book of mormon

Really? Quote it. It’s not there. The things I said were factually incorrect are not in the Book of Mormon.

actually and I also talked to mormons who told me some of this stuff. It’s also highly entertaining that you accuse me of ‘blind faith’.

I find it highly amusing that you don’t realize that’s exactly what it is.

So it’s not three planets because it’s 3 degrees…like…erm…the sun the moon and the stars?..and what would they be again…the sun and moon and stars that is?..OMG! they are planets! well look at that! :bravo:

haha!

I didn’t even talk about this!

Of course not. You wouldn’t talk about that. But I would, and it explains the doctrine you want to ridicule without attempting to understand.

I asid that guys can bring their wives up to ‘planet gold’ but the reverse is not true. am i wrong about that?

Yes, you are wrong.

But god did turn people black as a punishment, right? As you admit?

Didn’t you read my response to Fortigurn? Then, nope. It would be the Native Americans, and my understanding of the purpose was to make them distinct from those who were keeping the commandments. However, people at the time considered the skin color to be a curse itself, but that’s not the common belief now.

And mormons didn’t allow blacks in until very late on. I’m not sure if you are ‘correcting’ me here, because it sounds like you’re just helping my argue my cause.

Wrong again. Blacks were welcomed for church membership, as were Native Americans. However, they were excluded from being church leaders or holding the Priesthood for quite some time.

You can call that racism if you want. But consider that there were/are even more severe restrictions on who could be a priest in Judaism. Nobody but a literal descendant of Aaron or a Levite is allowed.

Let me throw a few moer factoids out there!

What you have are half-baked misunderstandings.