Are we downshifting?

(Obviously this is directed at standard trannny-equipped motorcycle riders, duh)
So who downshifts regularly, using the engine to slow the bike as opposed to just braking?
I do it all the time, just like I would in a car or truck, but I guess some don’t.

Certainly I do! Sometimes I do not need the brakes and can accelerate out of corners much faster, as engine RPM is in a better range.

Exactly!
Nice avvie, BTW.

I hear a lot of guys downshift by just dropping a gear and letting the clutch out…that would be suicidal on a big flat twin like BMW’s boxer engine unless you *blip" the throttle in order to “rev match” for a smooth downshift…

Why is it suicidal?..Given the serious torque that most twins put out, dropping a gear without rev matching would just cause “compression lock” on the back wheel and make it jump out sideways in a skid. With inline fours, it can be done with a better error margin and sometimes without even blipping the throttle…

It takes just a few rides to getthe technique down right, but it makes for a much smoother ride and safer bike control.

Cheers

[quote=“skylarkpuma”]I hear a lot of guys downshift by just dropping a gear and letting the clutch out…that would be suicidal on a big flat twin like BMW’s boxer engine unless you *blip" the throttle in order to “rev match” for a smooth downshift…

Why is it suicidal?..Given the serious torque that most twins put out, dropping a gear without rev matching would just cause “compression lock” on the back wheel and make it jump out sideways in a skid. With inline fours, it can be done with a better error margin and sometimes without even blipping the throttle…

It takes just a few rides to getthe technique down right, but it makes for a much smoother ride and safer bike control.

Cheers[/quote]

Right, I recall this from home.
Fortunately, here I’m only having to deal with an, erm, inline…one (!)

Hell yes.

Apart from the previous mentioned mechanical and riding benefits, it sounds cool especially to jack shit over there riding a scooter with no helmet.

yes… what Skylark said… although it’s not that big twins make more torque, generally speaking they actually make less per ccm than inline 4’s, but they have serious engine braking, plus on a GS you’ve got a shaft drive…

I impressed the hell out of a pack of scooter riders in the mountains doing that… buggering up downshifts I mean :blush: … Come flying past said leather clad scooter pilots down a hill, line up for the corner, hard on the brakes, down 2 gears, lean it in, bring on the throttle, release the clutch, sh*t!! that was one gear too many :astonished: , the rear wheel locks up, I slide into the corner at 70km/h horribly sideways, get back on the power, the rear grips again…and power out the corner…

like I said looks cool, but it’s terrifying, totally the wrong way to get around a corner and quite stupid… but assuming you do it right, using engine breaking instead of brakes to get perfect rpm and speed for driving out of corners is essential to riding quickly…

Surprisingly, to me, I have noticed a bit of “compression braking” effect on my 'scooter as it slows down. It occurs as the speed drops to < 20 kmph. It surprised me and is noticable. Auto 'scooter and all.

put yourself onto a Hartford and others that shift down, down, down…and then in a moment of habit, think you are back on your old “1 down, 5 up” bike.

Same result. Ouch.

put yourself onto a Hartford and others that shift down, down, down…and then in a moment of habit, think you are back on your old “1 down, 5 up” bike.

Same result. Ouch.[/quote]

Or the always charming (especially on the way home from the pub) shifting up from 5th…

[quote=“the chief”](Obviously this is directed at standard trannny-equipped motorcycle riders, duh)
So who downshifts regularly, using the engine to slow the bike as opposed to just braking?
I do it all the time, just like I would in a car or truck, but I guess some don’t.[/quote]Downshifting is integral to riding a bike properly. Some newer models are equipped with a technology that will keep the engine idle speed a tad higher until you come to a complete stop. It makes the downshift smoother. Many cars have had that technology for years now. It’s meant to achieve this:[quote]I hear a lot of guys downshift by just dropping a gear and letting the clutch out…that would be suicidal on a big flat twin like BMW’s boxer engine unless you *blip" the throttle in order to “rev match” for a smooth downshift… [/quote]I rev the engine before I dowshift though, the gear goes in smooth and it’s easier on the transmission. It’s like this. Clutch/rev then downshift and release the clutch. It happens fast and by the time I release the clutch the rev is still higher. Depending how aggressively you downshift, the rev varies but basically the hardest you downshift, the more rev you need to make it smooth.

bobepine

I do.

When I’m bored.

But, I’m a girl. So, does that count?

And, I don’t have a bike, but I do it in a car. So, does that count?

And I’m ovulating today, so you probably want me to leave this thread now, don’t you?

It’s called a suspended gear change where I come from and it’s used by both professional car and bike drivers. Matching the revs can take practise but it feels really nice when you pull off a gear change that you can’t actually feel.

Like the fabled counter steering, I cannot fathom how anyone can ride a bike any other way – no counter steering and the bike falls into the corner and you crash, no blip on the throttle as you change down and you’ll be thrown forward uncomfortably in the saddle.
Its never been something I’ve even thought about – they’re simply reflex actions.

I’ve met more than a few folks over the years who just coast to a stop and clutch-coast when slowing.
Brrr, gives me the willies.

exactly… couldn’t agree more…

you can hone these reflex actions to higher states of smoothness and efficiency however… but that’s not saying much, it holds true for anything… us humans are pretty good at generating and refining new neural networks… it’s just a pity we’re such shitty neighbors for every other species on the planet… oh christ I’m rambling again… :silenced:

I ride an FZR so I am constantly shifting, up, down, sideways (just kidding). Yep gotta rev the motor up before you let the clutch out nicely. I don’t remember not downshifting. I’ve had a few jobs driving trucks in BC so you learn to use the engine to slow you down.

I hate how regular scooters coast to a stop with little or no engine friction. When I’m driving in the mountains (scooter) I Am always wondering if I’m using the brakes too much going down hills and they will get hot and fail.

I have fitted a slipper clutch to my Dio and now I am always in the right rev range to power out of those mountain corners - without locking the rear wheel. Seriously though, you are not in control if you just coast about on a motorbike. You will I am sure have noticed taxi drivers always put the gear selector in neutral and coast up to the lights. It must be Local Cool or something.

[quote=“bobepine”][quote=“the chief”](Obviously this is directed at standard trannny-equipped motorcycle riders, duh)
So who downshifts regularly, using the engine to slow the bike as opposed to just braking?
I do it all the time, just like I would in a car or truck, but I guess some don’t.[/quote][/quote].

I think I did on a motorcycle, but that’s 20 years ago so I’m not sure. In a car or truck I use “mexican overdrive” (neutral) at every opportunity. Sends many “real drivers” apoplectic.

There seem to be two elements to this (a) Slowing down: This I feel, may be what BRAKES are designed for. If your brakes actually work they are more than capable of locking the wheels up, so there’s an excess of braking force available. Why then put reverse-load stress on your transmission in order to generate inefficient rear-wheel (bike or RWD car) or front-wheel only (FWD car) braking force? Makes no sense to me. Brakes are cheaper to replace than transmissions.

(b) Being in the right gear out of the turn:OK, so when I’ve slowed down, I put it in what I think is the right gear. This is a separate operation from slowing down. I suppose if you are “driving on the edge” sportsbike style you might save some satisfying milliseconds by engine braking, but I don’t really see how, and in a car it wouldn’t matter to me much anyway.

A lot of people in the UK, probably including many cops, think freewheeling (extreme case of the above “style”) is “illegal”. This seems unlikely since there were several models of SAAB (and I think a Morris Oxford) fitted with an optional freewheel in the transmission. I talked to the owner of one I coveted who said he’d tried it and it scared the hell out of him so he never used it again. Waste of good machinery.

Incidentally I can agree with the poster who said he got engine braking on a scooter auto-trans. I had to turn the engine OFF to get a decent downhill freewheel on a hired Kymco Jockey (4-stroke, may not apply to two strokes) in Maoulin, but as I wanted to pass a police checkpoint silently (no class-A mountain permit) this worked out OK.

Note that I am clearly NOT arguing from any “skilled driver” standpoint. I am a lousy driver in many ways, but that doesn’t, of itself, invalidate my technical argument.

In the UK my girlfriend (who helped teach me to drive) was taught to downshift to slow down. When I went for lessons from a pro instructor he said “Yes, girls do that. I’ve never understood why”

Well, the first time I took the road test for my Class 2 licence at home, I flunked, BECAUSE I coasted to a stop at railway tracks.