Are we sure it was an “accident” Oliver Chen (陳瑞光), leading member of Sunflower movement

[Yang_Gui_Zi]

Are we sure it was an “accident”?

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003599987

Moderator’s note: split from 'Re: Survey of Scooter Operating Expenses - Fuel, Repairs, Maintenance’ in ‘Cars & Motorcycles’

[Charlie_Jack]

Thanks for the info; I haven’t been keeping up with the news lately.

[Gain]

We went to the same school(not that I personally knew him or anything) and we were in the same department. I was suspicious when I saw the news, but his friends and family obviously knew why he was there and that area has always been notoriously dangerous, so I think it was a tragic accident, nothing more.

[headhonchoII]

Bei Yi Lu (no 9) is often discussed here as being incredibly dangerous. Still…it’s one to check into.

[mad_masala]

Oh, come on…

Ajeet Mehra · 留言最多的人 · 任職 Self employed
"after his scooter slipped off the road and he fell over a railing into a river valley "
“The 46.3km mark on the highway is at a right-turn bend, the officers said, adding that the concrete railway showed no visible signs of impact.”

In Taiwan there are always abandoned Motorcycles all over , Why was this suspicious enough for the Truck Driver to Investigate and call the police???

Something is NOT right with this incident

Totally retarded paranoid bullshit.

[tommy525]

Still working on Princess Di’s death in the tunnel.

[mad_masala]

I mean… like if that guy was an actual problem for the government, and like if killing him were a solution for anything…

[Taiwanguy]

@Yang Gui Zi

Are we sure it was an “accident”?

Leading Sunflower movement member dies in accident - Taipei Times

Moderator’s note: split from 'Re: Survey of Scooter Operating Expenses - Fuel, Repairs, Maintenance’ in ‘Cars & Motorcycles’

No, we aren’t. In fact, I am quite positive it wasn’t an “accident.” It was most certainly an accident (without the quotes).

[Yang_Gui_Zi]

To be clear, I really doubt there was any foul play involved. Was just throwing that out there.

taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 2003600119

[ LETTER ] - Taipei Times

[mad_masala]

@Yang Gui Zi

To be clear, I really doubt there was any foul play involved. Was just throwing that out there.

taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 2003600119

[ LETTER ] - Taipei Times

The guy who writes is obviously biased towards this young corpse and his political tendencies. More over, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about:

Although the barrier is low, the relatively dry conditions, as a picture in a China Times report showed, lend a certain improbability to the theory that his motorcycle suddenly lost traction and slipped underneath him, propelling him over the edge.

Why? Does he mean that there are only traction loss related accident under wet conditions? HA. I have seen many scooter accidents, specially in BeiYi, with “relatively dry” conditions…

As someone who has been in a motorcycle accident involving the loss of traction, it is my experience that the force projecting you down, not up, is considerable and immediate.

Not necessarily. You have lots of videos on internet of people flying over the bike when having an accident.

I’m not saying it is impossible that he was “killed”. I’m saying that there’s no reason whatsoever for thinking so. Except if you are an idiot who demonstrates because “Chinese can come here but poor Taiwanese can not go to China” (which is so untrue, BTW).

[Charlie_Jack]

@jesus80

Oh, come on…

---

Totally retarded paranoid bullshit.

I don’t know exactly what happened to Mr. Chen. At this point, I’m certainly not prepared to conclude that it was caused by foul play.

However, it’s one thing to form the conclusion that Oliver Chen’s death was most likely accidental, but quite another to say that people’s suspicions about it, or even their jumpings to conclusions, are “paranoid” and “retarded.”

@Taiwanguy

No, we aren’t. In fact, I am quite positive it wasn’t an “accident.” It was most certainly an accident (without the quotes).

I don’t know exactly what happened, but I don’t share your certainty about the matter.

@jesus80

I mean… like if that guy was an actual problem for the government, and like if killing him were a solution for anything…

I really don’t know how to respond to the statement immediately above, except to attempt to give some context to people’s suspicions (and again, I’m not saying that Oliver Chen’s death was not an accident):

The concerns were heightened on Saturday after Wei Yang (魏揚), spokesman of the Black Island Nation Youth Front — which has strongly opposed the cross-strait service trade accord — fractured his left hip in a traffic accident. He was hit by a car from behind while riding a motorcycle in Hsinchu City.

On the same day, Taiwan Rural Front secretary-general Frida Tsai (蔡培慧) was hit by a car while crossing a road in Miaoli. She suffered a skull fracture and brain hemorrhage.

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003578134

Netizens allege conspiracy over accidents - Taipei Times

Former gang leader Chang An-le (張安樂), who heads the China Unification Promotion Party, led hundreds of people to the streets near the Legislative Yuan in Taipei yesterday to demand that the students who have been “illegally” occupying the legislative chamber “return the legislature.”

taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 2003600119

[ LETTER ] - Taipei Times

Also known as the “White Wolf,” Chang is most famous for his involvement in the 1984 death of Henry Liu (劉宜良), a naturalized US citizen based in California who wrote an unauthorized biography of then-president Chiang Ching-kuo (蔣經國) under the pen name Chiang Nan (江南).

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003594922

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/print/2014/07/12/2003594922

Henry Liu (7 December 1932 – 15 October 1984), often known by his pen name Chiang Nan (江南), was a writer and journalist from Taiwan, Republic of China. Born in Jingjiang, Jiangsu, China, he was a vocal critic of the Kuomintang (Nationalist Party), then the single ruling party of the Republic of China in Taiwan, and was most famous for writing an unauthorized biography of Chiang Ching-kuo, former president of the Republic of China. He later became a naturalized citizen of the United States, and resided in Daly City, California, where he was assassinated by mob members who had been reportedly trained by Republic of China military intelligence.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Liu

Henry Liu

Thirty-two years ago today, Professor Chen Wen-chen’s (陳文成) body was found at the bottom of the stairs at the library of the National Taiwan University, a day after the Taiwan Garrison Command detained him for an interrogation over his overseas involvement with pro-democracy and Taiwan Independence movement. Professor Chen was a faculty of Carnegie Mellon University in the Department of Statistics and was a graduate of the National Taiwan University’s Mathematics Department.

The Kuomintang (KMT) authoritarian regime at the time claimed Professor Chen had committed suicide, but the injuries on his badly bruised and broken body told another story. The Taiwan Garrison Command claimed they released Professor Chen immediately after the interrogation, and Professor Chen went home by himself. Professor Chen was never seen again. His body was discovered laying facedown near the stairs of the NTU library.

theparticipantobserverblog.blogs … ry-of.html

In Remembrance - 32nd Anniversary of Professor Chen Wen-chen's (陳文成) death

Lin [Yi-hsiung] was arrested in December 1979 for his involvement in the Kaohsiung Incident. On February 27, 1980 Lin Yi-hsiung was in detention and beaten severely by the police. His wife saw him in prison and contacted the Amnesty International Osaka office. The next day Lin’s mother and twin 7 year old daughters were stabbed to death. The authorities claimed to know nothing about it, even though his house was under 24 hour police surveillance. There are no suspects to this day

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Yi-hsiung

Lin Yi-hsiung

Given the context, of which I’ve only shown a small part in the quotes above, I don’t see how anyone can be supremely certain at this point that Oliver Chen’s death was an accident (although I am not at all certain that it wasn’t), and I don’t see how anyone can characterize suspicious reactions, even of the knee-jerk kind, as paranoid or retarded.

[mad_masala]

Charlie J., well, if there has been like lots of suspicious car accidents of people who could actually be a problem for certain politicians, then I understand that people can be suspicious about this one. However, in those traffic accident you brought here… were those people an actual problem, like witness who could declare against important people in a trial? what do we know about the other parties involved in the accidents? when these accidents happened?

The case of the doctor who was assassinated is, in my opinion, a totally different thing.

[mad_masala]

BTW, yesterday I was riding in the mountain and I was almost T-boned by a car. If the accident had actually happened, I could be pretty fucked up today.

[Charlie_Jack]

@jesus80

. . . were those people an actual problem, like witness who could declare against important people in a trial?

People who have gotten crossways with the Kuomintang have on occasion died or been harmed, or their loved ones have died or suffered harm, in ways that sometimes cause me to imagine bad things about the Kuomintang. Maybe this is because of some mental defect on my part, but when it comes to the Kuomintang, I can’t seem to overcome the defect.

Now, maybe the White Wolf, who was involved in the assassination of Henry Liu, went to the student demonstrations outside the Legislative Yuan just to visit. But–and I know this puts me in the crazy and stupid camp–I suspect that he didn’t just drop by to say hi.

I guess a pretty good number of people seem to think that Wu Shu-chen’s having been repeatedly run over by a truck was an accident. But me, just put my name down on the list of paranoid morons, me. I have trouble believing it was an accident.

While Lin Yi-hsiung was detained, a detention in which he was beaten, his mother and daughters were stabbed to death in his house. During that time, his house was under surveillance by the government. Afterwards, the Australian “Bruce Jacobs became the first object of suspicion of the special investigation team.” taipeitimes.com/News/editori … 2003453451 Again, I’m gonna have to just go ahead and be imbecilic and paranoid on that one.

The pathologist Cyril Wecht, after examining Professor Chen Wen-chen’s body, said, “There was no question in my mind that it was homicide.” http://books.google.com/books?id=OlhOAQAAIAAJ&q=intitle:%22Far+Eastern+Economic+Review%22+%22committed+suicide+for+fear+of+punishment%22&dq=intitle:%22Far+Eastern+Economic+Review%22+%22committed+suicide+for+fear+of+punishment%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YuAgVNKyFcHc8AXykIGwCw&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA One more time, set me down in the pile with the insane and feeble-minded.

But again, I don’t know what happened to Oliver Chen, so you can’t yet justifiably accuse me of insanity or mental deficiency on that one.

[mad_masala]

Hey, hey, calm down and stop punishing you xD

I didn’t know about those cases, which actually I would like to know more in order to make a judgement about them. But nowadays cameras are everywhere, including BeiYi. It would be really difficult to kill somebody in BeiYi and get away with it, without anybody saying “hey, I saw what happened”.

Let’s see what else is found out these days.

[Charlie_Jack]

I’m not saying Oliver Chen was murdered. I’m just saying that I can see how people might be suspicious, or even how they might jump to conclusion that he was murdered. I can see how they might jump to that conclusion, but I haven’t jumped to that conclusion yet (or I don’t think I have).

[mad_masala]

@Charlie Jack

I’m not saying Oliver Chen was murdered. I’m just saying that I can see how people might be suspicious, or even how they might jump to conclusion that he was murdered. I can see how they might jump to that conclusion, but I haven’t jumped to that conclusion yet (or I don’t think I have).

OK, I understand. I was not aware of all these cases. However, still I don’t know the other version of those cases… because I have heard many times claims along these lines in my country about cases that I would not consider the “conspiracy version” a valid explanation. In example: people being so sure that the bomb strikes in Madrid in September 11th were a false flag attack. Or that Hugo Chávez was poisoned by the CIA. Etc…

[Mucha_Man]

@jesus80

@Charlie Jack

I’m not saying Oliver Chen was murdered. I’m just saying that I can see how people might be suspicious, or even how they might jump to conclusion that he was murdered. I can see how they might jump to that conclusion, but I haven’t jumped to that conclusion yet (or I don’t think I have).

OK, I understand. I was not aware of all these cases. However, still I don’t know the other version of those cases… because I have heard many times claims along these lines in my country about cases that I would not consider the “conspiracy version” a valid explanation. In example: people being so sure that the bomb strikes in Madrid in September 11th were a false flag attack. Or that Hugo Chávez was poisoned by the CIA. Etc…

Those are bad counter-examples. Better would be if you heard that a black community leader died alone in an accident in Alabama after a renewed civil rights campaign. Oh and that several other leaders had also experienced non-fatal accidents in recent months.

Would you dismiss concerns this might be deliberate as simply paranoia?

Having said that, I don’t believe Oliver Chen’s accident is suspicious when no one close to the deceased is claiming it is. But you’d have to be a bit of a naif not to feel a twinge of suspicion given the recent history of Taiwan.

[mad_masala]

@Mucha Man

Those are bad counter-examples. Better would be if you heard that a black community leader died alone in an accident in Alabama after a renewed civil rights campaign. Oh and that several other leaders had also experienced non-fatal accidents in recent months.

Would you dismiss concerns this might be deliberate as simply paranoia?

Having said that, I don’t believe Oliver Chen’s accident is suspicious when no one close to the deceased is claiming it is. But you’d have to be a bit of a naif not to feel a twinge of suspicion given the recent history of Taiwan.

I don’t know muzha about Taiwan history, TBH. But I know that there will always be people out there looking for this type of theories. Hey, I’m not saying that it hasn’t happened. Indeed, most likely it has happened, as it seems that there are evidences in some cases.

[Mucha_Man]

@mad_masala

…I don’t know Muzha about Taiwan history, TBH. But I know that there will always be people out there looking for this type of theories.

So? How would you feel if I acted this way about Spanish history? Don’t really know it but I’m sure Franco wasn’t so bad because people always love to make up shit.