[color=green]The original thread was getting quite long, so I’ve decided to keep it locked and start a new thread. If you wish to continue this discussion, you may do so here.
On another note, since there has been some confusion, I’d like to clarify that almondbiscuit/almondcookie/michelangel is the same poster, but she will henceforth be posting only as almondbiscuit. (Right, almondbiscuit?)
Imagine a man with a passionate love of Asian culture. He studies Asian languages for many years, becoming fluent and literate in Chinese, Japanese, and Thai, with a basic understanding of Vietnamese and Tagalog as well. Imagine that for over 10 years, this man pours through the history books, travels all over Asia, and becomes a veritable Renaissance man in all things Asian: literature, history, art, music, and science.
Imagine that this man has a strong preference for Asian women. He loves not only their petite stature, almond eyes, and dark hair, but there femininity and gentleness. Imagine that he has dated Western women on numerous occasions, but found them for whatever reason to be not to his taste. There is no escaping it: he prefers Asian women.
And now imagine…that he’s Asian.
Yes I know I ripped off the movie “A Time To Kill”, but it was a damned good construct and I think it applies quite well here. Both instances involve someone wanting to turn a bunch of racists on their heads.
The real racism of the “Asian Fetish” accusation is the implicit assumption that it is acceptable to prefer women of your own race, but not those of another. Whenever people of different races date and/or marry, the members of their own respective races feel compelled to analyze their relationship and make the corresponding asinine comments. Be it street-born pejoratives like “Jungle Fever”, “Yellow Fever”, and other such tripe, or pseudo-intellectual, Edward Saidian attempts at psychoanalysis, there is no end to the racist, caustic criticism levied against people in interracial relationships that would never be turned against same-race couples.
Since some posters are so focused on where the criticism is coming from regarding creepy Asianphiles so I have to tell you I’m also not ABC or female. Does that make my opinion more credible? To be honest I actually agree with a lot of what Tigerman has said and I would understand how people in interracial relationships would be more sensitive especially if they have children, I know I would be.
The Asianphiles I’m referring to are creepy because they’re not attracted to Asian women per say but they’re attracted to the idea that these girl’s English language ability has serious limitations and/or understanding of western culture is nil. It’s almost as if they’re saying I’m such a social retard/tool that I only feel comfortable dating girls that cannot pick up on what a loser I am.
Or maybe it dates back to childhood issues with their mothers. Or maybe it’s a genetic predisposition. Or the result of cultural conditioning. Or exposure to environmental contaminants. Or due to past-life experiences. Or cosmic order, or destiny or fate. Or God. Or random chance. Or maybe they’re not creepy asianphiles at all, and it’s all in the mind of the critic. Who knows? Who cares? Live and let live.
Can we put this one to bed now please? Here are some facts:
1)Men and (shock horror) women around the world get turned on by different stuff… some men are twats, some are not. Some women are just mememememe others are not.
2)Angsty sociology majors get on my tits (believe me, I’ve met more than my fair share as a Social Science grad). This particular scholar would have got laughed out of my department.
3)I’m in a mixed relationship right now never gave it a deep analysis, because to be honest I have better things to do when I’m with the old lady. She’s local and I’m not… Does she think I’m a creepy Sinophile? No…Any problems with that? No? good…carry on…
Or maybe it dates back to childhood issues with their mothers. Or maybe it’s a genetic predisposition. Or the result of cultural conditioning. Or exposure to environmental contaminants. Or due to past-life experiences. Or cosmic order, or destiny or fate. Or God. Or random chance. Or maybe they’re not creepy asianphiles at all, and it’s all in the mind of the critic. Who knows? Who cares? Live and let live.
In the name of the wee man! “Like serfs?” Like paid back-up, more like. We’ve got a paid tap-dancer in our band. Does that make us tap-fetishists? Or tap objectificationists?
[quote]I remember so many American, asian and non-asians criticising her…how what she did objectified them,[/quote]What the hell? Of course they’re objectified. Just like Gwen Stefani does to herself. Its the business she’s in.
[quote]made cliches out them[/quote] Have you ever been to Harajuku? They ARE cliches. To foreigners, to Japanese, to other girls, to themselves. That’s the whole damn point.
[quote] As silent, submissive asian females…[/quote] Again, have you ever been to Harajuku? Silent, submissive? HA! HA!
At least they’re indeed Asian females. You managed to get that part right.[/quote]
You write that Stefani “objectified them, silenced them, made them distant “exotic” objects and made cliches out them them (sic),” which seems right on, but how is that so much different from what you are doing to the interracial relationships you’re talking about right now?
I had to google this, because I haven’t a clue as to who or what this is:
What’s the big deal? They all look silly, IMO. Did the white American woman hold a gun to the four Japanese-American girls and force them to dress like that and to follow her around? Did the white American woman pay the four Japanese-American girls?
I really don’t see how this could possibly be an offense to anyone.
I find it very offensive. That hat would look way better on me. What a waste.
The percieved offence is where these ignorant Americans with no knowledge of the issue at hand see Japanese-looking kids dressed up in these silly clothes, have no relevant point of reference, so go with what they think they know – “it’s like the black & white minstrels! How AWFUL!” A lot of utter tosh, in other words, to anyone with even a smattering of knowledge of either minstrels or Harajuka.
I just took the Asian Fetish Factor Test… and now I realize that I really am a creepy white guy!
My result:
Please! Don’t nobody tell my wife!
Whew…
OK, I took the test again. This time, I answered as I would have 23 years ago before I first came to Taiwan. I guess back then I was not an Asian Fetishist:
This is sticky territory because the japanese themselves are masters at creating stereotypes. No, that’s a bad way of putting it because it sounds negative…I would say that they are the best at formalizing culture. It’s tricky to look at Stefani’s backups and say “they look caricatured therefore it is racist” because Harajuku is full of deliberate caricatures.
Where I feel things are fishy is dubbing them “Love, angel, music, baby” and not allowing them to speak in public. Well, at least it’s not Rosie O’Donnell going “Ching chong ching chong.”
Hmmmph! By the way, that quiz is tongue in cheek I’m sure, but it’s exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about when I say that I’m more oppressed by the asian fetishism background assumption than asian fetishist themselves.
Do you know alot about asian culture? Have you dated more than one or two asian woman? Are many of your friends asian? watch out! you could be a gross creepy asian fetishist. I bought into this kind of ‘litimus test’ thinking once. After all, the idea that white men who date too many asian women in a row are fetishists is very mainstream, and I never thought to question it. I would never be so lame as to date on of them, right? So how can this concern me?
I started dating the man whom I would eventually marry (the designer of the Battlepanda logo, for those who dropped by my blog. I should make it my avatar.) We started getting more serious. Then I realized that I was slipping the fact that his previous girlfriends are not asians into the conversation accidentally on purpose to make sure that people did not get the wrong idea about our relationship.
In a way, I was doing what such a FOB suggested in the previous strand, in effect saying “Yes, I know that many many guys who prefer asian women are perverted…but my guy is different, here, I’ll prove it…” I should never have to do that.
I think all of us who have been involved in Asian female/white male relationships in this two-part strand have been warned at one point of another of “not taking it too personally…do you have something to hide?” Well, I hardly think we give this stuff a thought in day-to-day life. However, when I see things like the quiz above and the color q article that started off the whole mess, I have the unpleasant realization that, yes, stereotype of the man in a AF/WM relationship as a creepy loser is much more widely accepted in polite society than other stereotypes.
i really just wanna chhuck in my 2 cents on this one.
Those who are dead against the ‘fetish’ have you ever been in a mixed relationship?
When I dated a french girl people always went on about her being french, yet I never thought of her as ‘french’, just my girlfriend and after a few failed relationships with other white women, I have found myself with an asian woman… who believe it or not looks as european as the french girl since she’s of taiwan aboriginal blood
so, my point is, (badly put coz Ive just finished work)
why is it more acceptable and less fetish-y to date a european with asian characteristics than an asian with european characteristics? or is this just my ‘type’? aka the fact girls like tall guys and guys like short women (related to fertility and if i find that scientific article instead of poorly researched social-gobledeegook-“science” Ill post it)
Yeah, I think the evolutionary reason for guys being attracted to short women is that from a child rearing perspective, if a short woman drops your baby, the baby has less of a fall. Its a survival thing.
Yeah, I think the evolutionary reason for guys being attracted to short women is that from a child rearing perspective, if a short woman drops your baby, the baby has less of a fall. Its a survival thing.[/quote]
Bollocks. My mum’s 5’ 11" and look at how I turned out.
Yeah, I think the evolutionary reason for guys being attracted to short women is that from a child rearing perspective, if a short woman drops your baby, the baby has less of a fall. Its a survival thing.[/quote]
Bollocks. My mum’s 5’ 11" and look at how I turned out.[/quote]