Article deconstructs Asian fetish (well, sort of)

Life Dating & Relationships
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Confidence. Agression. Suppression. Reaction. Culture. Understanding. HISTORY.

Sum it up?

People fear alot of what they don’t understand. Some cultures are more agressive than others.Lack of understanding tends to breed supression of an ‘outsiders’ belief regardless of logic. Reaction to what is percieved. Culture defines people and even as a race of ‘colour’ in most cases.

Being a white man who other ‘races’ view as an agressive and opressive ‘animal’ makes me somewhat more proud that I’m not the whining bastard. Hurts huh?

“Pride is like talent. Some people have it while others don’t.”

I’m not an appologetic whiteboy. Nor do I look down on others for being who they were rasied to be and the bottom line happens to be that we all feel in the same manner. We’ve just been shown different ways to express such feelings through our upbringing.

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This is a discussion board. You yourself stated that you like to analyze this topic. So, I take issue with this notion of “Asian Fetish” and with some of your statements. How does that make me “defensive”? Seems that you are the defensive one.

Hostility? Where?

I think the topic is stupid. That isn’t a personal attack. Its my opinion. I’m sure that many people, perhaps you too, would think that many of my interests are boring and or stupid. So what?

I didn’t suggest any such thing.

Nobody is perfect. Never implied that you should be perfect. I simply stated that you are unique.

You are now being a hypocrite. You made some statements above alleging that some of us have bought into certain stereotypes. Its OK for you to make such accusations, eh? I’m merely turning this back on you and suggesting that your identity crises perhaps stems from your own purchase of stereotypes per certain groups/races. You say you are a mixed child. Fine. And you say you suffer from an identity crisis… well, it seems to me that if you did not worry about the stereotypes per the two races you are from, you might not suffer an identity crises… if you were not seeking to “belong” to one or the other race, or both, you would understand that you are a unique individual and that no one race has a claim on you. Dunno if I’m articulating my thought well here…

Was I wrong to assume that you are a unique individual?

I’m not stopping you from stating your opinions. I’m just stating my opinion that the topic is stupid.

Haha. Honey, you’ll have to take my word on this. I suspect I’m much older than you and that I have been looking at this issue and dealing with moronic busybodies who have attempted to catagorize me based on superficial observations for a long long time. I also have a “mixed-race” child… I’m aware ot this issue and I’ve read lots of the nonsense written about it.

And your conclusion that had I read much on the topic I would be more open is simply wrong. Perhaps I’ve read so much and listened to so much crap re this topic that now I have lost a certain amount of patience and don’t feel the need to be open. Perhaps I’ve heard it all before and have already dismissed it as nonsense? But, who says I’m not open? I’m here discussing this, aren’t I?

Nobody, as far as I know. But, I’m just stating my opinion… the same as you are doing.

Well, perhaps those screaming and accusing others of having some sort of fetish should stop assuming that they “know” what others think or feel? In any event, I’ve listened to this and I agree that some people do have some fetishes. Some white males have an Asian fetish. Some Asian females have a white fetish. Some people have a black fetish. Some Asian males have a white woman fetish. So what? Who gives a shit? Is this topic really worth serious study? What is the goal of this study? Why do we study the obvious?

This is precisely the forum to discuss these ideas. Or, is it better scholarship to simply discuss these ideas with people who agree with you? That seems like poor scholarship, IMO.

No need to apologize. You are welcome here. But, you might want to lose the chip on your shoulder.

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I do very much. I appreciate the opportunity to challenge those comments, also.

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So, you’re going to stereotype all of the expats here based on a few comments posted by me?

And you speak of this “Asian psyche” as though it is some monolithic thing… that too seems a bit of a stereotype, IMO. I mean, if you’re going to criticize white men for having stereotypical views of Asian women, it seems a but hypocritical to then speak of some monolithic “Asian psyche”… no?

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[quote=“M0NSTER”]Confidence. Agression. Suppression. Reaction. Culture. Understanding. HISTORY.

Sum it up?

People fear alot of what they don’t understand. Some cultures are more agressive than others.Lack of understanding tends to breed supression of an ‘outsiders’ belief regardless of logic. Reaction to what is percieved. Culture defines people and even as a race of ‘colour’ in most cases.

Being a white man who other ‘races’ view as an agressive and opressive ‘animal’ makes me somewhat more proud that I’m not the whining bastard. Hurts huh?

“Pride is like talent. Some people have it while others don’t.”

I’m not an appologetic whiteboy. Nor do I look down on others for being who they were rasied to be and the bottom line happens to be that we all feel in the same manner. We’ve just been shown different ways to express such feelings through our upbringing.[/quote]

That was well said. I agree wholeheartedly. :bravo:

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I should also say I find this entire topic wrt so called Asian “Fetishism” to be much ado about nothing. Honestly. I can’t really say that I’ve actually met people like that in Taiwan. To be sure, I live in Tainan, so perhaps I’m not exposed to as broad a group of foreigners as up in Taipei for instance, and most of the Foreigners here are lads on one or two year stints to teach some English, save some money and travel a little before returning home to “settle down.” Of those that eventually become long timers or “lifers”, they are usually that by accident. Planned to come for a year or two and simply never left, or fell in love with Taiwan.
Most of the guys I’ve met here will shag anything. That anything is usually a local girl, because:
A - They’re more abundant
B - They’re more attractive than the foreign girls.
As far as “B” is concerned, I’m not saying that all foreign girls are less attractive than local girls. Also, I have no idea what’s available in larger cities like Taipei, but in Tainan the pickings are slim as far as foreign girls are concerned. The nicest and best looking ones usually have a bf, came over with a bf or never go out (I assume, as I don’t see them around). To illustrate the point, I’ve always been of the opinion that South African girls are (if not the most beautiful) amongst the most beautiful women in the world. But the ones I’ve met here in Tainan (although they are nice enough) are either on the obese side (which is not the norm in SA) or just not all that attractive IMHO.
And in my circle of friends I actually have several (foreign) mates who’ve only had foreign gf’s in Taiwan. And personally, of the three gf’s I’ve had here one was Australian. My current SO is Taiwanese, but that was more of an LE that went awry, and before she met me she knew no foreigners and actually didn’t like them very much (based on stereotypes). When she told her friends that her bf (now fiance :slight_smile: ) was a foreigner they were all flabbergasted.

So, I’m not saying this “fetish” doesn’t exist, but I haven’t really seen much evidence of it in Taiwan (read Tainan). Perhaps that sort of thing is more prevalent in other countries, like Thailand, that have a historical “stigma/stereotype” of being a sex tourist destination, or in Western countries where Asian populations are in the minority. And on those matters I can’t comment as I have no experience.

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[quote]chiquita wrote:
But I am also looking at this issue from an academic viewpoint as I have researched on the commodification of Asian culture in the West…[/quote][quote=“tigerman”]How could Asian culture not be modified by the /in the west? Do you think those of us western people living in Asia have not been “modified”?[/quote]TMan -
I took her “commodification of Asian culture in the West” as the branding, labeling and marketing of it. Creating an image that conforms to the desires of the advertising & marketing departments. Making it an marketable 'commodity."

If this is correct, then its little wonder why this “Asian thing” is so far off the reality mark.
My take anyway.

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[quote=“TainanCowboy”] I took her “commodification of Asian culture in the West” as the branding, labeling and marketing of it. Creating an image that conforms to the desires of the advertising & marketing departments. Making it an marketable 'commodity."

If this is correct, then its little wonder why this “Asian thing” is so far off the reality mark.
My take anyway.[/quote]

This is the third time in the last two weeks that you have actually made very good sense. First there was your take on the Borat thing, next your suggestions for dealing with the “illicit” drug problem, and here in this thread you are nailing it square on. What gives?

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[quote]chiquita wrote:
But I am also looking at this issue from an academic viewpoint as I have researched on the commodification of Asian culture in the West…[/quote]

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]TMan -
I took her “commodification of Asian culture in the West” as the branding, labeling and marketing of it. Creating an image that conforms to the desires of the advertising & marketing departments. Making it an marketable 'commodity."

If this is correct, then its little wonder why this “Asian thing” is so far off the reality mark.
My take anyway.[/quote]

Yes… I thought of that. I just thought the word would be commoditization… You’re probably right, though… The thing is, even if that’s what she meant, I don’t buy that notion either.

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Horror of horrors: I fear I may have a “fetish” for slender, lissome, satin-skinned, silky-haired, bright-eyed, vivacious, intelligent, sweet-natured, considerate, affectionate young women, many of whom are members of a race that isn’t my own! Ugh, what a sicko I must be! Had I better go and lock myself up?

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Omni wrote: [quote]Ugh, what a sicko I must be! Had I better go and lock myself up?[/quote]

No, no, no, old chap! That should be "Had I better put my clothes back on, and go and lock myself up? :wink:

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My litle sister and me is both 100% off european orgin.

She used to dress in pink and have ponny tail listening to bak street boys and was totaly in love with Leonardo de caprio, but now she look like Marlin Manson with breasts and have a spiderweb tatoed on her shoulder and listen to black metal only and she had a boyfriend my grandparents had there first glimps off on tv where he was running around on a stage with he’s naked chest painted in pig blood on one off he’s bands shows. :noway: :loco:

Do you think identety problems only is a problem for children from mixed couples?

Everyone agree that kids from mixed couples is the cutest ones so why not go and buy condoms and enjoy the ride.

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Stian wrote:

Actually, she sounds way more interesting than before. Sounds like she grew a personality. That’s a bad thing?

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I can see why poor chiquita’s getting so upset. It must be difficult when you begin to come to the realization that the subject on which you’re basing your course of study is a complete fallacy.

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I have a fetish for green eyes. I really wonder what I’m doing in Taiwan…

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Gravel truck drivers, taxi drivers and the local police force has a certain personalety to. Is that a good thing?

:howyoudoin:

On second thoughts forget about it. My gf is jalous and I don’t think she is into kinky stuff.

57

Cats have green eyes. Adopt a kitty.

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I saw a great deal of truth in that article. More precisely, I understand a lot of my friends better now after having read it.
I’m surprised at the reaction of a lot of men on this forum. It’s as if you’re all covering your ears and screaming “LALALALALALA! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!” C’mon, I like women with slender bodies and nice skin too, but c’mon, you mean to tell me you read that thing and didn’t recognize ONE person you know? I can’t believe it.
Self-introspection is good. It would do a lot of posters here good to give that aritcle a second look and ask themselves honestly if you don’t recognize at least a few elements of yourself, or a few of your friends in it. If something in that article didn’t ring true for at least ONE foreign guy you know, at least ONE conversation you’ve had in a pub, well, I think you must be lying to yourself. You’ve been in Taiwan for how long and you don’t see ONE element of that article that decribes ONE person you know? Can we please have an intelligent discussion here?

As for the complaints that it stereotypes white men, well, welcome to the real world. Part of what it means to have “white privilege” is that white people don’t have to spend as much time thinking about racial stereotypes as people of color do. Time to examine yourself in the eyes of others. As a white man, I must say that it has been an eye-opener to me to realize that I’ve spent most of my life thinking about life from a “white” world view. We white people like to think that our world view is correct, that it is the only valid one, that it is the only one that exists. This is what it means to be white, in my opinion - the fact that I’ve been able to live most of my life thinking from this comfortable, self-serving, yet false, paradigm. Open your eyes, people. Learn what minorities think about you. Don’t just cover your ears and run away screaming. It’s not very manly.

When reading the responses to that article the schoolyard phrase “you can dish it out, but you can’t take it” comes to mind. How many threads have we had on this forum about “psycho-xiaojies”, “are TW girls immature?” and so on have we had on this forum? Time for a lot of you to look in the mirror, and to realize that when you’re looking at an Asian woman, she’s also looking back at you.

I used to have a female student who would tell me about the conversations she has with other Taiwanese women on the internet on some forum or another in Chinese trashing the foreign guys who come here. Man, somebody who reads Chinese ought to translate some of that stuff here. Pot, meet kettle.

Grow Up. Take a look at yourselves. It’s healthy.

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[quote=“TainanCowboy”]TMan -
I took her “commodification of Asian culture in the West” as the branding, labeling and marketing of it. Creating an image that conforms to the desires of the advertising & marketing departments. Making it an marketable 'commodity."

If this is correct, then its little wonder why this “Asian thing” is so far off the reality mark.
My take anyway.[/quote]

I also initially read it the way TM did. I hadn’t heard the word “commodification” before, so I was gratified to learn a new word today. Who says these forums aren’t educational?

Commodify: To turn into or treat as a commodity; make commercial: “Such music . . . commodifies the worst sorts of . . . stereotypes” (Michiko Kakutani, New York Times Magazine)

bartleby.com/61/24/C0512450.html

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Good for you. Perhaps you should speak only for yourself?

Perhaps you should learn to read. I have acknowledged that some men and some women have certain fetishes. So, what is your point?

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension. I don’t think anyone denied that some men and some women have certain fetishes.

That’s just stupid.

“A few elements” would not necessarily constitute a fetish.

And again, you don’t read well. I don’t think anyone denied that some men and some women have certain fetishes.

Again, “one element” doesn’t constitue a fetish.

You’re not holding up your end of the deal on that score.

Hahaha! You’ve got it all figured out, eh?

I’m willing to imagine that I spend a great deal of time thinking about racial stereotypes. Probably a great deal more than most people. Now, I may not be affected in the same way as a black person is affected by racial stereotypes, but I am affected nonetheless.

Ooooh!

Please speak only for yourself. Your statements call for a Fred Smith style response.

Stop stereotyping white people. Not all white people maintain such views.

You know what they say about opinions?

Is it all false? And how is it different from any other self-serving paradigm maintained by people of other races? Or, are you suggesting that black people and Asians live to serve other races and only whites serve themselves?

Learn to read.

Seems that you haven’t learned to read yet.

Huh?

You’re rambling. What has this to do with the topic of “Asian Fetish”?

Learn to read. That skill will serve you well.

And in the meantime, stop prancing around like some mindless caricature of an outraged sophomore.