Article: "I'm not Korean or Japanese, really!" by Ian Jin

I think this article gives a really interesting snapshot of the Life of a “banana”* (“Asian-American of Chinese heritage”, i.e. “white on the inside, yellow on the outside”*) in Taiwan. Some of the authors observations are heavy generalizations that make him appear a little, um, unfriendly.

Disclaimer: I’m not even the slightest bit racist; I’m just quoting the author’s own words.

taiwanho.com/modules.php?op= … =0&thold=0

A quote to get you interested:

[quote]"It mattered little that I was a foreigner all the same; with my yellow skin and slant eyes, I was assumed to be Taiwanese. As always happens, he did not ask: he just assumed. I bet if they had menus in different languages, he would have given me the one in Chinese and my white companions the one in French

oh well, that happens to me too… i’m white, but why does everybody here in Asia assume that i speak or even teach English? I wanna speak my mother tongue from time to time…anybody out there?

I think that article serves to underscore the stupidity of some of the locals.

See Yellow-face, do not hear Chinese…See white face, hear Chinese…click-whir…does not compute, does not compute…system overload…does not compute…click-whir…system overload…

We’ve got the world’s tallest building and we’re so internationalized and educated…hardy har har. I remember having lunch with a French-speaking friend who could not speak English. So, there we were, two whities speaking Mandarin (the only way we can communicate with eachother) and everyone else around us was totally freaking out.

So the people in Mississippi are more advanced than the people in Taiwan. Like this is news! They’re all racist bigots. The only reason 90% of us stay on this crappy little island full of ignorant rednecks is $$$$$$$$$$$$

That ain’t news neither

[quote=“Peking Spring”]So the people in Mississippi are more advanced than the people in Taiwan. Like this is news! They’re all racist bigots. The only reason 90% of us stay on this crappy little island full of ignorant rednecks is $$$$$$$$$$$$

That ain’t news neither[/quote]

I lived in Mississippi and I can confirm Mississippians are more advanced than the BS here. :help:

His experiences ring true but he’s a bit of a whiner IMO. From reading the article I get the impression his outrage is not based on his hatred of racism as such - although he is correct that it certainly exists - but the fact that he is not accorded the same ‘status’ here as a white American and treated accordingly. Maybe he should print his life history in Chinese on a card and hand it to people before he talks to them.

His analogy with the white areas of Western countries is flawed - the areas themselves may not be diverse, but they are part of a diverse country, and some of that does influence the general population’s attitude - they might not be as openminded in those areas as they might be in some parts, but they know people of many races exist right in their own country. They can see that just by turning on the TV. They have already been indoctrined with the ‘all the different colours are part of this great nation’ concept. Many Taiwanese are prejudiced, ignorant and backward in this respect, and it’s not surprising given their history. It doesn’t make it any better and it doesn’t make it ‘right’ but it’s not that difficult to understand.

If he really cares, he could be figuring out ways to ‘force’ Taiwan’s government to open up their immigration policy and ways to induce more Westerners to emigrate to Taiwan (heh) rather than complaining about his lot, which in the scale of things, is really quite good. I wouldn’t mind reading about the same experiences from the perspective of a Filipino-appearing professional (any country) transferred to Taiwan for work. He’s got a right to complain, sure, but I don’t have a lot of sympathy for him.

Maybe I can get my wife to write an article too. She is a college graduate, but not working here so she can spend time with our dogs and be active at Taipei American School with our boys. She is of Filipino/Italian descent and has lived in America since five. She does speak Chinese, in fact her speaking is a lot better than mine. I am of Swedish/German ancestory so naturally it seems where ever we go; people speak to her in Chinese, and are confused when she will turn to me with a to help with a Chinese word or read something in Chinese. A lot of times when she struggles with a word in Chinese, the person she is talking with will take an impolite tone she feels is suggesting that they think she is my A-ma or maid. In fact, several times when we were out with our two boys she has been approached on the street or at TAS by people wanting to know if she has time to do extra house cleaning, cooking, blah, blah, blah. But this is a big improvement over her experiences when we lived in Chungli in 1999.

Gimme a break! First of all, among the “western” countries, only the US, Canada, Australia, and NZ qualify as traditional immigrant societies… If you go to continental Europe, the general populace will see nationality and ethnicity as 2 sides of same coin, even though it in fact isn’t anymore. Therefore, as a foreigner in the country, you will be treated as such. However, that does not mean that they are prejudiced against foreigners, or that they will as a knee jerk reaction treat different kinds of foreigners differently, just that they don’t see them as fellow locals.

However, they still manage to treat foreigners with respect in most cases, and can therefore not be categorized as ignorant racists - unlike most Taiwanese.

I finally read that article.

What a whinging little bitch.

Is it really that surprising that Chinese people in a Mandarin-speaking country are going to assume someone with Chinese features speaks Mandarin? Back home, if I see another white face, I assume they speak English. They may well be French, Finnish, whatever, and speak no English at all. But it’s still a logical assumption, since the majority of people I encounter at home are white and speak English. Why should people here be expected to think differently to that?

As for pretty much the entire rest of the article, all I have to say is - oh diddums. It’s annoying that people here try and speak Mandarin to you? I should be so lucky. It’s annoying that people will, on occasions, insist on speaking English to me, no matter how broken, and no matter that I’ve been speaking nothing but Mandarin the whole conversation. You’re annoyed that people assume you’re a nationality other than you are? Welcome to being a foreigner in Taiwan.

That guy needs to suck it up and stop bitching. Or at least stop bitching for attention. Everyone needs a good vent once in a while, but not everyone decides to publish it.

Gimme a break! First of all, among the “western” countries, only the US, Canada, Australia, and NZ qualify as traditional immigrant societies… If you go to continental Europe, the general populace will see nationality and ethnicity as 2 sides of same coin, even though it in fact isn’t anymore. Therefore, as a foreigner in the country, you will be treated as such. However, that does not mean that they are prejudiced against foreigners, or that they will as a knee jerk reaction treat different kinds of foreigners differently, just that they don’t see them as fellow locals.

However, they still manage to treat foreigners with respect in most cases, and can therefore not be categorized as ignorant racists - unlike most Taiwanese.[/quote]

Give you a break about what? OK, fair enough about the Europe thing, but the writer of the article was NOT talking about not being treated with respect - he was talking about not being acknowledged as the American/foreigner he felt himself to be due to his Asian ancestry, and how often people thought he must be Japanese or Korean because he did not speak fluent Mandarin. Did you read the article? In fact, if what you are saying about Europe is true, then he would receive exactly the same treatment he is complaining about in Europe as well! (That is, people assuming he is from an Asian country merely because he looks Asian.)

I would agree that in many areas the attitude and treatment by the Taiwanese to those of non-Chinese appearance could do with a lot of improvement, particularly to the darker-skinned SEAsians. But I don’t believe this was the main point of the article at all. I thought he spent most of the time complaining about his own treatment, which was not disrespectful (mostly), only ignorant.

Give me a break again… You assumed that all western countries were immigrant countries, where ethnicity and race are the same thing, which is why I quoted the whole paragraph you wrote. However, your argument is flawed, as they are not. I have NOT been brought up to see Denmark as a multi-cultural society, but as the home of the blond-blue-eyed Danes. No racism, but it’s out country.

In Denmark, he would be addressed in Danish first, then English if Danish did not do the trick. If he started out speaking English, ppl would reply him using English. Noone would assume that he did not speak the language bc he isn’t white. If he was speaking Danish, and he was with a white guy who didn’t, then people would answer him, and not direct the answer toward the whitie. That’s basically a matter of simple politeness - to address the persons speaking to you. Not doing so is rude, and always gets to me. Moreover, when I speak Chinese the locals will will usually reply to me, even when I am with an Asian looking person, so it must be the normal way of doing things here too.

Moreover, I felt that he harped a great deal on the yellow racism issue, which is basically the core of his piece:

Or this one:

[quote]On hearing my experience at the bank, a Taiwanese friend said the schmuck was being a schmuck probably because Koreans are looked down on in Taiwan, as opposed to Japanese who are looked up to. Ah ha, finally an admission from the horse’s mouth! So, there is such a thing as revering some people and scorning others on the basis of race and national origin. Uh, excuse me … isn’t this Racism 101?
[/quote]

How about this:

[quote]From what I have experienced, Asians can be ethnocentric, prejudiced, bigoted, and prone to stereotyping and valuing people purely on the basis of skin color in ways that modern-day Anglo-Saxons, Teutons, and Gauls can only dream of.
[/quote]

And to that correction, I said ‘fair enough’, did I not? I don’t know much about continental Europe. However, I said the Taiwanese were ignorant due to their history - not only due to their lack of diversity. Someone on this board once said they were only a couple of generations away from being peasants, which I originally thought was rude, but over time doesn’t seem too far from the truth. If you have a better/different reason, fine. My point is, what can be done about it? He came up with no suggestions or insight, merely complaints. As I said, that’s his right, but I’m not terribly sympathetic to his ‘problems’.

So… your point here is that he just ran into some particularly rude/ignorant locals? I would think your experience is actually a point in Taiwan’s favour!

As to racism in Taiwan, it certainly exists, and I said in my original post that I thought he was entirely correct about the situation. You may feel that was the ‘core’ of his piece, but I felt it was more about me, me, me. You’re entitled to your opinon and let me have mine.

Yeah, that is simple politness, but this doesn’t happen here in Taiwan or Asia. People always start speaking English to me first and then maybe, maybe switch over to Chinese once they know I do speak it. But what happens most of the time is that people insist speaking English. Or even worse, when I ask them something in Chinese and they reply to my Taiwanese boyfriend or even ask him, where I am from and how come I speaks Chinese. Gosh, I’m sitting right next to him, why can’t they reply to me or ask me directly!!!
I know my EQ is low, but things like this just make me angry…

Everyone who responded has some pretty good points.

One of the most true observations was by Tetsuo:

The author wrote:

[quote]A person who is

That has not been my experience. Whenever I am with my Taiwanese GF and I speak Chinese to a local, most locals turn away from me and speak to my GF. The typical experience is when we enter a restaurant or a store and I ask a local staff person a question, such person will turn to my GF and give the answer.

Once in a while a local will need to have my GF ask the question again before he or she can provide a response, making a face that implies that they can’t understand me. This occurs even when I make simple statements that I have spoken hundreds of times like “wo yau dai dz.” If my GF is with me, SHE gets a puzzled look. If I am alone, I get a bag.

My Chinese pronunciation does not mysteriously float between good and bad depending upon whether my GF is with me. However, it sure does seem that the locals ability to understand me is a lot better when I am alone.

[quote=“daasgrrl”] And to that correction, I said ‘fair enough’, did I not? I don’t know much about continental Europe. However, I said the Taiwanese were ignorant due to their history - not only due to their lack of diversity.

So… your point here is that he just ran into some particularly rude/ignorant locals? I would think your experience is actually a point in Taiwan’s favour! [/quote]

Isn’t racism often felt by the discriminated person as an ignorant attack on the self?

You should see the schoolbooks used by my grandmother, who BTW turns 100 shortly - quite racist (all in brackets is not my opinion, just an example of how geography was taught 90 years ago):

“Finns are known for using knives to settle disputes”
“Chinese are inferior to Europeans”
“Colonizing the world is the white mans burden”
“Black people are suitable for heavy manual labor and have a weak intellect”

Now, that’s the culture my grandmother was brought up in, and we should therefore expect her to be a racist, right? (She isn’t, and genuinely likes her granddaughter in law).

What happened and what changed that was basically lots of official pressure thru politicians, law changes etc, a clear example of the intellectual elite (for lack of a better word) changing the mores of society. The same process is not happening here - ask Annette Lu.

My point with the locals talking to me is that I am very fluent, and I am very good at staying in the conversation. If I am cut out, then I usually cut in, directly and impatiently. That scares ppl a little.

There is racism which is grounded in ignorance and racism which is grounded in hatred of anything different from one’s own kind. The two IMO are different, even if they might be seen as brothers. There is probably hate from some quarters for foreigners in Taiwan, as there always is, but some of it is just ignorance.

Well, there you go - it could be done here. Now, see, that was actually an insight into the way by which racial discrimination has actually successfully been changed in a monocultural nation and why it persists in Taiwan - something utterly missing from the article. It was never my intention to give the definitive answer as to why racism occurred in Taiwan - it was merely a hypothesis on my part that diverse nations such as the US are more likely to have more understanding and insight into other cultures and therefore see the need to control racism (and therefore Taiwan might benefit from more diversity), which you somehow seemed to misconstrue as an some kind of attack on monocultural nations. It really seemed a minor addition to the main point of my post at the time, which is basically that I was unsympathetic to complaints about locals daring to treat the guy like he was ‘one of them’ instead of the deity-like American that he really is. Do I get a break now? :unamused:

And that’s exactly what he did to force the waiter to speak to him in English, and it worked for him, too.

[quote=“daasgrrl”]
There is racism which is grounded in ignorance and racism which is grounded in hatred of anything different from one’s own kind. The two IMO are different, even if they might be seen as brothers. There is probably hate from some quarters for foreigners in Taiwan, as there always is, but some of it is just ignorance.[/quote]

Well, the ignorance thing is too damn common, even among ppl who should know better - I have yet to meet a Taiwanese completely free of them.

Hate - more than you should think, my former boss was a prime example, he’d lived in the US for 1 yr, was most likely unable to pick up any female action, and kept tellimg me that all westerners were retarded (I left). Much of the “ignorance” is willfull btw.

I think the guy wants to be treated as the American he is. In other words as the average foreigner, which is what he is.

Moreover, the practices he moans against are racist. Only hiring whites in school, claiming that jews are money grubbers etc.

I must admit that I don’t see the guy as a moaner and a wailer, but as one, who has suffered quite a bit of ignorance here and who’s fed up with it. He’s airing it, and good on him.

I saw the omission of multi-cultural nations on your side as no minor thing, as a majority of “westerners” come from monocultural nations, and have their understanding of nationality from a monocultural setting. It could be construed as you setting a link up between monoculturalism and racism, and that would set the blood boiling in most Swedes, Danes, Britons, Germans, Italians, Czechs, Poles, Spaniards, Greeks, Irish etc. I actually construed it as you being merely ignorant, as a matter of fact. Multuculturalism and respect for your fellow human beings are not all that closely linked, as racism exists in most - if not all - human societies.

Ireland is probably not the best example to demonstrate the “understanding of nationality from a monocultural setting.”

No offense to the Irish posters on this forum, but as I understand it, racism (particularly anti-Asian) is a growing problem in Northern Ireland.

http://www.research.ofmdfmni.gov.uk/raceandracism/section4.htm

See, I do have sympathy for ABCs who find it hard to get jobs as English teachers due to skin colour - but the things he actually complains about - people wanting to speak Mandarin to him, people presuming he might be Japanese or Korean, people talking to him instead of his wife, meh. His wife would have a stronger case.

I was saying that diversity essentially forces a nation to confront racism in some fashion, and there is no or much less pressure to do so in monocultural societies where diversity is almost positively discouraged such as Taiwan. I thought that might be at least part of the reason for the ignorance. Yes, I already said I know little about continental Europe, but if you are saying, for instance, that someone of Asian appearance is always going to be thought of as a foreigner by Europeans (even if treated with respect), then you could argue that is more ‘racist’ (ie differentiation by race) compared to the US, where they’re - at least in theory - an American just like everyone else. Now, the ACTUAL level of respect the person may receive from others may be exactly the same, but one society regards him as a ‘foreigner’, the other, theoretically, as ‘one of them’.

I don’t see that it’s ignorant to think a monocultural society with very restrictive immigration laws (ie Taiwan) has less incentive to deal directly with racism, and never did I imply ‘all monocultural societies must be racist’. Honestly, I think you read SO much more into my post than I intended :s