Asia: Why so tough on drugs?

Legal General Legal Matters
1

I was having dinner with friends a few nights ago when the conversation shifted to the penalties for drug use/trafficking in asian countries.

We debated for a while the fairness of various sentences (prison time, death etc) but the conversation quickly shifted.

Why is it that many asian countries have severe penalties for drug violations?

While an obvious answer is to deter drug use what we really wanted to know was why/where/when had this “tough stance” started.

One friend suggested that the opium wars may have left a bad taste in China’s mouth but that doesn’t explain countries like Indonesia and Singapore etc etc.

Another friend (who is taiwanese) suggested that it was a show of defiance against western values (and our generally liberal stance on drugs). But again that didn’t seem to make sense as many drugs are produced locally (the whole Golden Triangle thing).

Can anyone shed any light on this situation?

btw to be fair I should have also posted “The West: why so soft on drugs?”

2

Why not?
And that is probably a good reason - to prevent before cleaning up.

3

[quote=“JoeyJoJoJnrShabadu”]Why is it that many Asian countries have severe penalties for drug violations?

. . . . btw to be fair I should have also posted “The West: why so soft on drugs?”[/quote]

Different drugs, different situations. After all, tobacco, alcohol, coffee and aspirin are all drugs too.

Regarding marijuana, it makes no sense for any country to take a get-tough approach and imprison or deport offenders. No one has ever died from marijuana, unlike the millions who die every year from alcohol and tobacco; it doesn’t cause people to become violent and abuse their family members or fight with strangers, as alcohol does; it causes only a tiny fraction of the traffic fatalities that alcohol does; etc. Marijuana is only illegal due to ignorance and mindless acceptance of past propaganda and practices.

In asia, children don’t rebel and seize their independence anywhere near the extent to which they do in the west. For the most part, they’re good little boys and girls living at home with their mommy and daddy. And even when they become adults, they find it easier to conform then to question authority and societal beliefs. In Asia alcohol and tobacco are the chosen poisons and children lack the courage, independence or individuality to even consider that maybe marijuana isn’t the equivalent of heroin, maybe it’s really not harmful at all, maybe they might want to experiment and try it. Besides, when would they have time to try it between classes and cram school and where could they do it, when they all live at home with their families? As for the adults, they’re far too conformist, ignorant about the subject and thoroughly indoctrinated by the killer weed propaganda to consider the possibility that it might not be a deadly poison, so if the kid were caught smoking pot it would be a permanently shameful and unforgivable crime for which the strictest punishment would be the only possible response.

Same goes for shrooms, which are also a natural substance without particularly harmful effects for most takers.

I doubt users of E suffer any more harm than users of alcohol or tobacco; that is, occasional use won’t be especially damaging, but regular use may kill you. Same goes for cocaine. But those type of drugs are feared so much more intensely because it’s not just a plant that grows naturally, but is the result of a manmade process of chemistry, which makes them especially unknown and sinister. Moreover, the fact that such substances may be linked (at least in the minds of the fearful) with shady characters in dark, smoky clubs where foreigners go to prey upon innocent young asian girls, gangsters reign, and the police make raids and haul deviates off to jail, after their photos have been published in the Apple and their families have been forever shamed, only makes matters worse.

A tough stance on heroin, on the other hand, I can understand (though the death penalty is barbaric for any crime, in asia or the west).

4

Plus, this is a patriarchal society. Don’t dare to question daddy’s values and thinking no matter how unfounded and stupid they may be. Part of the reason for the harshness is to prevent the chaos and disorder that would result from independent thinking and rebellion by the younger generation.

5

Yeah, right. Except for the nasty habit of stretching the universe into an oblong balloon of grooviness and splintering consciousness and memory into little bits where thought and speech are limited to something akin to:“My hands are so coooool,” and “Did I just say that?”

Or so I’m told. :rainbow: :unamused:

6

Probably because Asia has already lived thru it’s “night of the living Crack heads” with the Opium trade (China) and have seen how drugs have severely deteriorated Western civilizations and they aren’t interested in having those problems. I say more power to them.

7

Some nice points MT.

I wonder if this attitude to the “killer weed” will change when the current generation of teenagers / young adults move through to positions of political power. I’m thinking it will take it a little longer than that.

I still find it quite sad when a young adult (eg 18 or 19) gets the death sentence for trafficking. While it is undeniably stupid to do no one deserves to die for shoving half a kilo of (insert vice here) up their clacker.

8

[quote=“JoeyJoJoJnrShabadu”]
I still find it quite sad when a young adult (eg 18 or 19) gets the death sentence for trafficking. While it is undeniably stupid to do no one deserves to die for shoving half a kilo of (insert vice here) up their clacker.[/quote]

I don’t agree with the death penality in any situation. Yet, what about an individuals that are contributing to the demise of families,communities, nations and the individuals who take the drugs? IMO back up Singapore for their reasons on excuting the young man. My heart goes out to him and his family, but if you play the ‘game’ you have to be ready for the consequences of your actions.

9

Keep in mind, too, that until the 1950’s in the US the mainstream attitude towards drugs was probably equivalent to that of Taiwan today. Some black people, jazz musicians and others on the fringe of society smoked pot, but most families probably resembled the Beaver Cleaver family in their wholesome naivety regarding drugs. It was only in the 60’s that society underwent a monumental upheaval, with first blacks, then women, no longer accepting separate accomodations and second-class treatment, and young people no longer willing to die in some foreign land because their fathers said so, resulting in protest marches, riots, lynchings, burnings of bras and draft cards, the sexual revolution, a youth revolution, long hair, rock and roll, psychodelia and widespread experimentation with drugs. The vast majority of young people tried drugs then, at least pot, those people are now the parents and leaders of US society, and US society will never be the same.

I don’t know much about European history, but I would imagine they saw a similar transformation. On the other hand, Taiwan and other Chinese societies never underwent anything remotely similar and it is unlikely they ever will.

10

dude, I think you nailed it with that post.

back i go to my friends…

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Americans judge Asia for harsh drug laws, but of course fail to look at their own country. “More than half a million people were behind bars for drug offenses in the United States at the end of last year, according to numbers from the Bureau of Justice Statistics. In a report released Sunday, Prisoners in 2004, the Justice Department number-crunchers found that people sentenced for drug crimes accounted for 21% of state prisoners and 55% of all federal prisoners… With 178,000 drug prisoners in jail, more than 87,000 federal drug prisoners, and more than 266,000 state drug prisoners, the total number of people doing time for drugs in the United States last year exceeded 530,000. Drug war prisoners make up only about one-fourth of an all-time high 2,268,000 people behind bars in the US, up 1.9% from 2003.” stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/409/toohigh.shtml

Maybe if Asia developed a strong prison industry like the US, they would stop executing drug offenders, and just pile them up in jails like America does…

War on drugs… war on terrorism… war on Iraq… did we win yet? Actually, by using these interminable unwinnable wars as a smoke screen, they seem to be winning the war on civil rights.

12

Huh?

13

For Chinese societies at least, it might be that little unpleasantness over opium. It’s been drilled into thier heads that this one one way the West pulled one over on them.

14

Maybe the OP should ask why other other countries so soft on Drugs?

There are different attitutes and laws in each country.

15

[quote=“Satellite TV”]Maybe the OP should ask why other other countries so soft on Drugs?

There are different attitutes and laws in each country.[/quote]

I thought the OP did ask that question? Read the original post again.

And to keep on topic I’ll answer it.
Legalize everything in the West, not just the major killers- alcohol and tobacco; it’ll be much easier to control and it’ll screw a lot of the underground bullshit going on in Asia,eg catching the mules and letting the big shipments go through!!

16

Huh?[/quote]

no time to reasearch my backup for arguement, but toe tag makes a good point. i don’t know if it’s a smoke screen, but civil rights certainly have been impacted by these so called wars. Let’s take the 3 strike rule. black men are more affected by this rule and so are latino men. this rule doesn’t do anything in changing a criminal or the problem, all it does is add to the deterioriation of the black/latino community because of the absence of male figures, which leads to single parent home which has been shown to lead to more crime. at times it seems like the american government is more like a dog chasing it’s tail. :unamused:

17

after some serious consideration i have come to the conclusion that it is ridiculous to impose the death penatly for mules (bottom end drug traffickers).

how can a country justify killing a young adult for 2 (maybe 3 kilos) of heroin when large shipments of the very same drug pass through their borders regularly and unnoticed.

particularly when drugs such as heroin (which i know is one of the most sinister of drugs) cause so few deaths compared to legal vices such as alcohol and cigarettes.

these laws have done little to stem the flow of drugs into many asian countries. mules are picked up regularly and are regularly “dealt with”.

does this seem insane to anyone else?

18

[quote=“Mother Theresa”][quote=“JoeyJoJoJnrShabadu”]Why is it that many Asian countries have severe penalties for drug violations?

. . . . btw to be fair I should have also posted “The West: why so soft on drugs?”[/quote]

Different drugs, different situations. After all, tobacco, alcohol, coffee and aspirin are all drugs too.

Regarding marijuana, it makes no sense for any country to take a get-tough approach and imprison or deport offenders. No one has ever died from marijuana, unlike the millions who die every year from alcohol and tobacco; it doesn’t cause people to become violent and abuse their family members or fight with strangers, as alcohol does; it causes only a tiny fraction of the traffic fatalities that alcohol does; etc. Marijuana is only illegal due to ignorance and mindless acceptance of past propaganda and practices. [/quote]

YES.
And, may also be due to lobbying efforts of tobacco and alcohol concerns who didn’t want competition?

19

[quote=“JoeyJoJoJnrShabadu”]particularly when drugs such as heroin (which I know is one of the most sinister of drugs) cause so few deaths compared to legal vices such as alcohol and cigarettes.

does this seem insane to anyone else?[/quote]

Well what would happen to the rates if heroin was used as regulalry as alcohol and cigarettes. It’s a far more damaging drug. Perhaps heroin deaths are far fewer due to the fact that heroin cannot be purchased in a store. :unamused: :unamused:

20

[quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“JoeyJoJoJnrShabadu”]particularly when drugs such as heroin (which I know is one of the most sinister of drugs) cause so few deaths compared to legal vices such as alcohol and cigarettes.

does this seem insane to anyone else?[/quote]

Well what would happen to the rates if heroin was used as regulalry as alcohol and cigarettes. It’s a far more damaging drug. Perhaps heroin deaths are far fewer due to the fact that heroin cannot be purchased in a store. :unamused: :unamused:[/quote]

Or perhaps not. :unamused: :unamused: Would you start shooting up smack if you could go down to 7/11 to buy it? Most people have enough common sense that they wouldn’t, just the same as most people have enough common sense not to drink themselves to death just because it’s legal to do so. In fact, if I recall correctly even the use of heroin is legal in the Netherlands and they don’t have a higher rate of use than in other countries.

On the other hand, if a person wants to use a substance (alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, etc) from time to time in moderation to alter his mental state without harming anyone it’s not unreasonable to argue he should have that right. Perhaps the requirement to use drugs responsibly so as not to screw up ones life or harm ones family should be a matter of personal responsibility, not overly strict state control.