# Asian tigers leaving Taiwan behind (2018 edition) **URL:** \ **Category:** Living in Taiwan\ **Tags:** 2018\ **Created:** [April 30, 2018, 1:59am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975 "2018-04-30T01:59:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/41 "2018-04-30T13:06:05Z")
There is a strong tendency on this board to overgeneralize based on personal experience. Some of that comes with living in a foreign country and thinking your experiences are more profound than they are. You guys often correct each other, but not all the time. I majored in economics for my undergrad. If someone else did too, speak up. Some of the comments in this thread fly in the face of economic reasoning, and some don’t align with facts. First, stricter labor laws/mandated salaries do not make your economy grow faster, it does the opposite. This may be counter-intuitive. But a firm cannot close down factories to produce at the most efficient level in the short run. If they can’t fire or are forced to pay people a wage that’s not efficient, that’s a double whammy because both capital _and_ labor are fixed. Second, some of the things said here are factual. Some aren’t. Income taxes too high??? This is especially odd coming from those of you from Europe. Taiwan is pre-tax, the most egalitarian societies on the planet. ![](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/e/c/ecad39760942a210aa8f22beb1a925fe180ed17c.png) Scandinavian countries are about as equal _after_ taxes. Gotta go to work. ---
**Author:** ![afterspivak](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@afterspivak](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/afterspivak)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/42 "2018-04-30T13:10:40Z")
@OysterOmelet Lots of interesting things in your post, but I do wish to complicate this statement: > [@OysterOmelet](#): > > Taiwan is pre-tax, the most egalitarian societies on the planet. The problem here is using income, and not wealth, to measure equality. They are not the same. And based on the latter, Taiwan is a highly inequal society. Guy ---
**Author:** ![OrangeOrganics](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/orangeorganics/32/206888_2.png) [@OrangeOrganics](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OrangeOrganics)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/43 "2018-04-30T13:10:45Z")
> [@OysterOmelet](#): > > First, stricter labor laws/mandated salaries do not make your economy grow faster, it does the opposite. This may be counter-intuitive. But a firm cannot close down factories to produce at the most efficient level in the long run. If they can’t fire or are forced to pay people a wage that’s not efficient, that’s a double whammy because both capital and labor are fixed. When your wages and labor laws are so bad that workers care little if nothing about their work they do impede your economy and they are stopping growth ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/44 "2018-04-30T13:13:04Z")
> [@afterspivak](#): > > @OysterOmelet Lots of interesting things in your post, but I do wish to complicate this statement: > > > [@OysterOmelet](#): > > > > Taiwan is pre-tax, the most egalitarian societies on the planet. > > The problem here is using income, and not wealth, to measure equality. They are not the same. And based on the latter, Taiwan is a highly inequal society. > > Guy Are you talking about net worth vs income? ---
**Author:** ![afterspivak](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@afterspivak](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/afterspivak)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/45 "2018-04-30T13:16:52Z")
> [@OysterOmelet](#): > > Are you talking about net worth vs income? I am referring to “wealth” as total assets and debts, in contrast to “income.” I am using these terms sociologically to talk about social inequality. My source is Oliver and Shapiro’s remarkable study _Black Wealth / White Wealth_, 2nd edition (Routledge, 2006). It’s a great book and well worth checking out. Guy ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/46 "2018-04-30T13:18:37Z")
> [@afterspivak](#): > > > [@OysterOmelet](#): > > > > Are you talking about net worth vs income? > > I am referring to “wealth” as total assets and debts, in contrast to “income.” I am using these terms sociologically to talk about social inequality. My source is Oliver and Shapiro’s remarkable study _Black Wealth / White Wealth_, 2nd edition (Routledge, 2006). It’s a great book and well worth checking out. > > Guy Yeah, that’s net worth. ---
**Author:** ![IbisWtf](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/ibiswtf/32/67943_2.png) [@IbisWtf](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/IbisWtf)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/47 "2018-04-30T13:25:00Z")
![uwotmate](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/images/transparent.png) ![](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/1/c/1c6f56282c807bf71aee58e53982776ab51b23ec.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/48 "2018-04-30T14:11:43Z")
> [@OrangeOrganics](#): > > > [@OysterOmelet](#): > > > > First, stricter labor laws/mandated salaries do not make your economy grow faster, it does the opposite. This may be counter-intuitive. But a firm cannot close down factories to produce at the most efficient level in the long run. If they can’t fire or are forced to pay people a wage that’s not efficient, that’s a double whammy because both capital and labor are fixed. > > When your wages and labor laws are so bad that workers care little if nothing about their work they do impede your economy and they are stopping growth Fair enough. So why doesn’t one company undercut everyone else by instituting better labor practices? ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/49 "2018-04-30T14:12:19Z")
> [@IbisWtf](#): > > ![uwotmate](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/images/transparent.png) > > ![](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/1/c/1c6f56282c807bf71aee58e53982776ab51b23ec.jpg) I’m Taiwanese American. Everyone bow down to me. ---
**Author:** ![IbisWtf](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/ibiswtf/32/67943_2.png) [@IbisWtf](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/IbisWtf)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/50 "2018-04-30T14:25:11Z")
check your privilege, …uhm…white/yellow boy? ---
**Author:** ![tando](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@tando](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tando)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/51 "2018-04-30T14:42:25Z")
> [@OysterOmelet](#): > > You guys often correct each other, but not all the time. This time is the case that you guys correct each other. ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/52 "2018-04-30T14:55:02Z")
> [@afterspivak](#): > > In some ways, the struggles that people have faced here are entirely understandable. With the opening of China from the late 1980s onward, an extra 1.4 billion folks (more or less) entered the global economy, with a predictable impact on wages in Taiwan. > > Yet I suspect when we look back, we will see that the Chen Shui-bian and Ma Ying-jeou administrations were (economically speaking) colossal failures: failures to turn to renewables; failures to provide affordable housing in the major cities; failures (in the case of Ma) to envision a political or economic strategy other than tying up with Beijing. > > There’s an enormously amount of catch-up to do. Tsai Ing-wen seems to understand this better than her predecessors. Will her administration be able to get things done? > > Guy She does have more economics training. I know the law program at the University of Chicago has a large economics component. Maybe someone familiar with LSE’s law program can opine whether it does too. ---
**Author:** ![afterspivak](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@afterspivak](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/afterspivak)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/53 "2018-04-30T14:56:16Z")
Chicago? Tsai was educated at Cornell, then at LSE. Guy ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/54 "2018-04-30T14:58:25Z")
> [@afterspivak](#): > > Chicago? Tsai was educated at Cornell, then at LSE. > > Guy Right, that’s why I asked about LSE. Chicago law is unique in that its grads would be trained substantially in economics. Was asking if LSE were the same. ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/55 "2018-04-30T15:11:25Z")
Also, someone tell me why Taiwan needs more foreign investment when it already has excess savings (savings that’s not invested). [http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2018/04/09/2003690953](http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2018/04/09/2003690953) ---
**Author:** ![OrangeOrganics](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/orangeorganics/32/206888_2.png) [@OrangeOrganics](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OrangeOrganics)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/56 "2018-04-30T15:24:05Z")
Taiwan needs people investing in new enterprises. Taiwanese refuse to Also, overseas companies coming in and offering decent labor standards could be the panacea for the whole economy to improve. Which is one of the reasons for the resistance from both DPP and kmt ---
**Author:** ![OrangeOrganics](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/orangeorganics/32/206888_2.png) [@OrangeOrganics](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OrangeOrganics)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/57 "2018-04-30T15:28:09Z")
You guys acting that ultra conservative Tsai and her corrupt minions are in any way reformers is just cute. Tsai is in no way more economic savvy than Ma. Both the DPP and KMT are the same bar one single issue. ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/58 "2018-04-30T15:31:59Z")
> [@OrangeOrganics](#): > > Taiwan needs people investing in new enterprises. Taiwanese refuse to > > Also, overseas companies coming in and offering decent labor standards could be the panacea for the whole economy to improve. Which is one of the reasons for the resistance from both DPP and kmt OK, tell me why foreigners would invest more in new enterprises when domestic demand is weak. ---
**Author:** ![OrangeOrganics](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/orangeorganics/32/206888_2.png) [@OrangeOrganics](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OrangeOrganics)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/59 "2018-04-30T15:37:41Z")
Because Taiwan has a highly educated and skilled base of mis managed human resources. Also Mandarin speaking without the red tape of China. Similar reasons Google bought HTC r&d department ---
**Author:** ![yyy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/yyy/32/12085_2.png) [@yyy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yyy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975/60 "2018-05-01T02:21:35Z")
> [@OysterOmelet](#): > > > [@OrangeOrganics](#): > > > > Korean companies have foreigners in decision making positions though. Samsung have industrial design team in the States > > HTC marketing dude is some white guy. **Hipster Troll Carwash 4eva!** :trollface: _[insert HTC commercial here]_ [Previous page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975.md?page=2) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/asian-tigers-leaving-taiwan-behind-2018-edition/168975.md?page=4)