Asiaworks brainwash

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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[url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/asiaworks-brainwash/6096/2 really need a simple search box at the top of our webpages to encourage people to Search before they Post.

Here’s what I had to say about this last year: [forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … 100#107100](Asiaworks brainwash

These are very Western concepts about the self, responsibility, forgiveness that are new and powerful to many people who are experience them for the first time, especially when they are packaged together like this. Kudos to the people who design these kinds of training – what a challenge it is to successfuly introduce new ways of looking at the world/yourself/your circle.

Lifespring has had its devotees and its troubles – I believe they shut down their business several years ago. But don’t let this invalidate the material and activities. By and large, it’s good stuff.

And a good friend of mine who did take the entire set here in Taiwan, and who has a lot of experience in these types of workshops and seminars prior to coming to Taiwan, did uncover a link to Scientology. Not necessarily a hard link, but that many of the activities are used in their own brainwa… oops, I mean exercises. This revelation turned me off at first, but when I thought more about my own experiences in the seminars, and the overwhelmingly positive results of many friends who have taken them, I became comfortable again.

You probably won’t learn anything “new” here if you’ve had a normal North American middle-class upbringing (I cna’t speak for anyone else)… but don’t let this deter you. This is stuff that is very much worth repeating and refreshing, and the bonding and experience with the very varied backgrounds of your fellow participants is worth the cost of admission.

If cost is an issue for you, and you are very interested in this, then consider my suggestion and do it in the Philippines (where it’s cheaper and done entirely in English)

One more point, the recruiting aspect is a serious drag. None of my friends who took it liked it nor were any good at it. It is a controversial tactic (guilting your loved ones into taking the course), and AW has toned it down a notch in recent years (you cannot imagine what it was like before!)

If you have specific questions and are seriously interested, PM me. I have friends who have worked for AW after taking it and left the company for both good and bad reasons.

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It honestly never occurred to me that the subject could have come up before. Even though now that I see it, it does seem familiar!

I’ve found some historical / theoretical information at rickross.com Ross is an anticultist, but his site just collects articles from elsewhere–including some very detailed ones about groups like this. Apparently the granddaddy of them all was Werner Erhardt’s EST, which is now called Landmark Forums. Scientology “borrowed” EST’s techniques, and a bunch of other groups got them from one or the other.

No, I don’t plan to contribute any money to this cause. Being an "educator’ they might let me in free, but the prospect of 5 days of basically live Oprah does not really attract.

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I think we should all donate some money and send Sandman. If there’s enough left over he could take the Almas too.

let me get this straight. In one forum we have people complaining that chinese (students) won’t let go, communicate, discuss, share opinions, etc. In another we have the automatic labelling of a program to change this as a cult. I thought cults were supposed to have charismatic leaders that are viewed as demi-gods at the very least.

I don’t think it does any harm to people to have their eyes opened a bit, to see things from different perspectives, to see the world in new ways, to feel better about theirselves. And any ‘revelation’ is probably going to induce evangelical feelings in the victim for a while. But how long does it last? I was a fan of network marketing for several years, but grew out of it and I bet that most AW people fall out of the program eventually. They learn what they can from it, and move on. All the best to them.

Incidentally, one of the things that stopped me being quite so dismissive of Amway was an encounter with a couple that had been suckered in during a (very short) stint that I did with a security company. There was me, trying to do my hard sell routine and destroy their feeling of security, giving my all to make them feel threatened and endangered enough to be led down the path to a very expensive alarm system. And I couldn’t get them to play. They were rock solid, undefeatable. Amway had given them a little bit of sound financial advice and a whole lot of attitude that protected them against a nasty unscrupulous world (personified by me) that wanted to exploit them.

After four fucking hours I gave up, and damn near joined their program. The experience was enough to convince me that you need a bigger plan than just ‘get money out of people any old way’ and to give up my position as a ‘security consultant’. So although I never joined Amway it made me a better person.

NT$21,500 might sound like a lot of money, and I don’t know what AW actually teach you so I’m speculating a bit here, but anything that encourages people to improve their situation - by taking control, by making better financial decisions, by improving their relationships, may be a good investment. Shit, you could take the whole family for the price of one burglar alarm.

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I must confess that i have once enrolled AW after being convinced/pushed by a very good friend of mine when i had some difficulities in life and wanted to make a change. I was lucky that i didnt have time for the course (Fri/Sat/Sun 1800 till midnight). I just decided to withdrawl my enrollment and got the money back (they still charged NT$3500 for “handling” fee though). The reason that I decided not to take the course was mainly because

  • their lousy and unprofessional telemarketer who called you during the nights just to “congratulate” that you enroll the course. The young girl that i spoke with had no idea who she was talking too. They wanted to be close with you and dig out your deepest thoughts, but how can that be possible if you were busy working overtime or having a drink at bar? :smiling_imp:
  • the other main reason is that i saw what my friends and their friends from AW did in real life. They were gathering almost everyday to complete some sort of life mission. They did generate lots of personal confidence in achieving goals, that also including an illegal fundraising…etc.

Anyway, the course is not for anyone. It might be a good place if you like to meet a lot of people and you dont care how much time and money that you must put in. :wink:

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Why thank you Stragbasher. There’s nothing I’d like more than to sit around with a bunch of strangers and end up blubbing about a bad bout of constipation I had as a three-year-old, but I think I need to scrape the toejam out of my nails at that time, so regrettably I’ll have to pass.
I’m sure Almas will be happy to take notes for me, though.
Charlatans preying on damaged people. Fie on them!

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Bonding with others…surely that includes men, right? A roomful of men needing a shoulder to cry on…and someone to hold…

What was that number again?

Maybe we could bring back the Rants and Raves forum (aka the :fume: forum) and then we’d put AsiaWorks out of business. :bravo: We even have the appropriate emoticons to show the stages of how people go through this program…

First the skeptic…:unamused: who goes in with an attitude of “This ain’t gonna work for me and you’re muy :loco: for thinking it will.”

Then after listening for a while, they start to feel :s and a little :blush: and begin to get feelings like that their father was a total :homer: and their mother was a stupid :moo: . This makes them feel :frowning:

All of a sudden, a point hits home :post: and they feel :astonished: and start to :cry: . Their realize their life was a total :wall: and they need :help:

The instructor guides them to :pray: (er, meditate) to find inner happiness. They do :smiley: and go and tell their friends :hubba: about how they :notworthy: this program and now feel :rainbow: …

(But we all know that’s a :liar:…)

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I did that Asiaworks thing a few years ago…next thing I woke up giving away flowers and selling books in the airport…

No wait…that was the Hari Krishnas…very happy group …too much dancing for me though.

I remember now, I did that Asiaworks thing, had a vegetarian lasagna dinner with them…next thing I knew I was living in a chicken coop and selling candles door-to-door…

No wait…that SW the Moonies…tried to get me to marry in a big group…

I remember that Asiaworks thing now…kept trying to get me “clear”…hooked me up to some electrical thing…almost “cleared” out my bank account…

No wait, that was them Scientologists…

I remember now…met them folks in San Francisco…did something like ESP…up in Big Sur with them…hot tubs…white wine…ahhh…Good times…

No wait…that was EST…different thing…

Hmmm…maybe I haven’t did this Asiaworks thing…do they have beer?.

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I also did the PSI seminars (two of them) and overall I’d say it was a positive experience. Other posters are correct about the pressure tactics–I felt afterwards that it tainted the whole process.

Another thing is that you have to remember the moderators at these things are not professionals. Granted, they warn that anyone who’s on medication or presently going through counseling should consult them before continuing. But what I recognize now is that there were some people who were left very emotionally vulnerable, and were being counselled by people who didn’t know how to go beyond the boundaries of their program. I think that as long as they know what their own limitations are, they can do you some good.

I got a lot out of it, so I wouldn’t tell anyone not to go. As for the secrecy about what they do, I still honor that because some of their exercises would be worthless if you knew ahead of time what was going to happen.

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http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?p=12955&highlight=cult#12955
here is some more of the same shit. Cults…they aren’t just for runaways anymore. “You don’t understand, staying up all night and making me demostrate ‘love’ had a profound effect on me.” Sandman, you have to understand, we are all weak and would rather cry and join in a secretive organization than admit that weakness. We all the same, dawg.

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I confess to having strange, heretical views about psychotherapy. I think that it’s important to think about what your goals are; that there’s no one right way to do things (this doesn’t mean there aren’t wrong ways, of course); that self-improvement takes time and doesn’t benefit from gimmicks; and that the therapist should have basic respect for the client.

The impression I get from AsiaWorks etc. is that they’ve already decided what their goal for me is (“self-knowledge” of some kind, evidently); think they’ve got the fast-track to it; and don’t particularly care what I think as long as I’ve got money to burn. We’re all basically the same, so they can cure us in big groups, no problem.

Some people say they’ve benefitted from stuff like this. Have they really? God knows, but couldn’t you get more or less the same effect from going to church or something (at substantially less than NT 21,500)?