Attack from the Extreme Right on Judges

Well MFGR:

I think Tommy Tomorrow better satires your style of machine gun argumentation. The bullets fly everywhere but what do you actually say?

The newspaper in question called the person an “extreme right winger” but the NY Times and others have often been called to the carpet for their selective use of terminology to describe the left and right. So the left is a woman’s organization (even though heavily funded from wacko leftists) while the Heritage Foundation is a “conservative” “right-wing” “reactionary” foundation, etc. etc. you get the idea.

Who on earth has “called to the carpet” the New York Times for that? Probably some more of those anti-“mainstream media” websites you’ve linked to previously. It would seem that you’ve been steered in the wrong directions before by these alternate media sources, given that you were recently caught out telling us how the Al Qaqaa site had been proven cleaned-out. Thanks for playing.

Now, I am curious whether you’re actually denying that the “World Church” wackos are “extreme” in their positions. Based on your previous posts (and Ann Coulter’s obvious appreciation of Tim McVeigh’s talents), are you trying to argue that groups like this should be considered more “mainstream”? I don’t want the smoking gun to emerge in the form of, well, a smoking gun…

Or are you going to start trying to complain about how “unfair” it is that groups like this are widely (and correctly) understood to be the far end of the “right wing” spectrum. As an American, I hope that violent groups like this are not considered “mainstream”.

Nice try. My point remains. Do you know that these people are Republican? Then, why do I have to respond at all to their alleged actions against this judge’s family?

So back to Al Qaqaa. Then, answer the question. How do you know that all 380 tons of explosives were there when the troops arrived if the examination was perfunctory and as cursory as you said earlier? Back to you. Thanks for playing. haha

Also, be sure and answer how the media suddenly became interested in al Qaqaa a couple weeks before the presidential election even though the site would have been looted 1.5 years earlier? Then, why is it that in the four months since the election, the story has not been repeated or covered again? Back to you. Thanks for playing!

The Bloomberg article that has already been posted (see relevant thread) already shot down the idea that the explosives were gone even some time after the 101st Airborne passed through. Thanks for playing. One has to wonder why a president would have the DoD (which is not supposed to be acting as an arm of the GOP) submit to the press sat photos that were mislabeled so as to create the false impression that the trucks were in front of bunkers where the explosives were stored. One also has to wonder why the “Commander-in-Chief” would have false statements issued about whether or not the 101st Airborne inspected the bunkers.

However, please answer my question already posed to you: Are you seriously denying that these “World Church” guys are “extreme”?

What Bloomberg article. Care to repost that again? I don’t remember that one. Please resubmit. I apologize for any inconvenience. Not saying you’re wrong. I just want to see it.

Naturally, it will not change my view of things but it would be an example of poor planning in my book. Those kinds of things deserve to be investigated not to punish anyone but to make sure that they do not happen again.

Anyway, even though you were wrong about the extent of port security expenditures and developments, I still did listen to you when you submitted the article questioning some of the value and prioritization that was given the plans. I agreed. I may agree this time as well. Try me.

You’ve seen it. You responded to it. Go ahead and look in the appropriate thread.

But that was the article that said the soldiers only performed a perfunctory, cursory inspection. ERGO if that is true, how could anyone know that ALL 380 tons of explosives were there. None of the articles you posted answered this question. The NBC reporter said the explosives were already gone. The other reporter claims to have seen them and suggested that the army only performed a cursory inspection. I still do not see therefore how this shows that ALL 380 tons were there. And given the discrepancies in reporting, who is to say that the NBC reporter is not correct? Why MUST the Bloomberg reporter’s account be given credence? I gave that to you because I thought it was plausible, but to me there is entirely too much confusion regarding this issue to take either side’s story as absolute fact and if that is the case, I cannot blame anyone for the disappearance of these explosives. THAT SAID, I want to know what happened if this is possbile and I want to make sure that we learn from this.

Run a search for “Bloomberg” in forumosa’s convenient and easy-to-use search feature. You will find the article that you so much desire. The first reporter was with MSNBC, the second reporter with ABC and other 101st troops had footage of them breaking into bunkers and lots of IAEA-sealed explosives. The follow-up account quoted local Iraqis as having seen the locations looted after the Americans left. Thanks for playing, but it looks like you’re matching the Tom Tomorrow cartoon quite accurately now.

I really love the way this Turner can posit his outrageous views via headlines (‘WHITE farms in Kenya’, ‘Mexican gangs…’, ‘Homos perpetrate…’). While this technique has been used by the Republicans in the past, he seems to just be another nutball of the militia variety. They also have some juicy websites about Jewish-Chinese conspiracies and such. :unamused: Michael Moore and Chomsky are, as Fred says, icons of the left; their views, though controversial, merit debate and discussion. I’m trying to think hard of any popular right-wing intellectuals who hold similar sway. Though he probably influences the Right as much as Moore influences the Left, Limbaugh is too much a simpering, peurile idiot to merit serious discussion. Bush has really been the main target of those opposing the Right, but one has to scratch deeper to find the truth. Come on, you Righties, what voices of merit can we expect from your camp? :help: G. Gordon Liddy? I’m not looking for a target, just a spokesperson who can lay it on the line.

Let’s just hope they don’t get as wild and crazy as this web-site points them out to be!
rightwingeye.com/

I’m sure you would get very different answers depending on which conservative you asked (just as you’d get different answers from different Democrats), but I’ll give you one example of a conservative writer who’s views are very well respected and influential among most conservatives that I know: Ramesh Ponnuru, at National Review.

[quote]

Ramesh Ponnuru is a senior editor for National Review. Ponnuru grew up in Kansas City and graduated summa cum laude from Princeton’s history department.

Ponnuru has published articles in numerous newspapers including the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, Newsday, and the New York Post. He has also written for First Things, Policy Review, The Weekly Standard, The New Republic, Reason, and other publications. He is the author of the monograph The Mystery of Japanese Growth (American Enterprise Institute/Centre for Policy Studies). He has been a fellow at the Institute of Economic Affairs in London and a media fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution.

He has appeared on CNN’s Inside Politics, NBC’s The McLaughlin Group, MSNBC’s Buchanan & Press and Donahue, CNBC’s Kudlow & Cramer, PBS’s The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, CSPAN’s Washington Journal, Comedy Central’s Politically Incorrect, Fox News, and NPR’s Morning Edition.

Ponnuru lives in Washington D.C. with his wife April, a policy adviser to the Majority Whip in the U.S. House of Representatives. [/quote]

Ponnuru is not a big media personality, and is not a household name like Moore or Chomsky – but I think what you were asking about were actual influential thinkers and writers right? Ponnuru certainly fits the bill. He’s very bright, articulate and generally polite – and as you see in his bio he has been appearing on many of the political TV shows these days, and generally becoming a more and more important and central conservative voice.

Here are a list of articles by him from findarticles.com, and here is an excellent article that he wrote attacking this statement, which I really believe is a core belief among liberals: “We have a responsibility that when somebody hurts, government has got to move.” As you can also imagine, I am very fond of the title of this article: Swallowed By Leviathan :slight_smile:

I’ll be interested to hear what you think of him (assuming you haven’t read him before). You may well disagree with him, but I suspect you will find him to be extremely intelligent, calm, and rational in his arguments.

Byrd spokesman defends senator’s Hitler remarks

With his knowledge of history and his own personal background as a KKK member, he should be ashamed for implying that his political opponents are using Nazi tactics

cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/ … index.html

Interesting to find an article that so easily highlights the trouble “the right” has in contemplating the “extreme right”. Here’s a guy who was right in the top corridors of power in a Republican presidential administration, with a strong hate of the federal government (hence the “head shots” quotations from his show) and an appreciation for Nazi stuff that is a bit unsettling.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200411230004

[quote]The Fuhrer was G Gordon Liddy’s first political hero. Liddy was a sickly, asthmatic child when he grew up in Hoboken, New Jersey, in the 1930s. The town was full of ethnic Germans who idolized Hitler. Liddy was made to salute the Stars and Stripes Nazi-style by the nuns at his school; even now, he admits, “at assemblies where the national anthem is played, I must suppress the urge to snap out my right arm.” His beloved German nanny taught him that Hitler had – through sheer will-power – “dragged Germany from weakness to strength.”

This gave Liddy hope “for the first time in my life” that he too could overcome weakness. When he listened to Hitler on the radio, it “made me feel a strength inside I had never known before,” he explains. “Hitler’s sheer animal confidence and power of will [entranced me]. He sent an electric current through my body.” He describes seeing the Nazis’ doomed technological marvel the Hindenberg flying over New Jersey as an almost religious experience. “Ecstatic, I drank in its colossal power and felt myself grow. Fear evaporated and in its place came a sense of personal might and power.”[/quote]

However, it’s interesting to see how the GOP treats people who encourage the killing of Clinton-era officials … they become honored guests! http://www.fair.org/extra/9507/liddy.html

[quote]Later, after North signed off, Liddy had this exchange with a caller:

Liddy: When the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms thugs come to kill your wife and children, to try to disarm you and they open fire on you. When they come at the point of a gun, force and violence, when you’re going to defend yourself, use that Gerand [M-1 rifle]. That thing is 30-06, and it’ll take 'em right out.

Caller: And yes, aim for the head.

Liddy: Absolutely.

If Bob Dole, Newt Gingrich or Oliver North missed the Sept. 15 show, the Sept. 6 show would have helped them understand this Republican supporter’s character.

Liddy: Arm yourself. Get instructed in how to shoot straight.

Caller: I’ve got weapons.

Liddy: Absolutely. And don’t give 'em up, and don’t register either.

Caller: No way. And I’m aiming between the eyes.

Liddy: There you go. That way their flak jackets won’t protect them.

For the listeners to Liddy’s 250 stations, appeals for the election of Republican candidates were sandwiched between frequent depictions of the Clinton administration as an evil that needed to be resisted with deadly force. That may explain why Liddy was invited to be the guest of honor at the Republican Party’s “Salute to Talk Radio.” [/quote]

[quote=“Comrade Stalin”]So who has been arrested? Anyone? Suspects? Maybe it was the same person/people who butchered the Coptic Christian family in New Jersey. We haven’t heard anything more about that, have we? :unamused:

christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/109/32.0.html[/quote]

Robbery.

It was the guy renting the family’s upstairs apartment.

nypost.com/news/regionalnews/41881.htm

[quote]March 5, 2005 – The youngest member of the massacred Jersey City Coptic clan was butchered after recognizing a neighbor as one of the men who invaded her home.

The sighting, which came as the girl made a desperate escape bid, sparked the slaughter of her entire family.

. . .

“It was a robbery gone horribly wrong,” Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio said yesterday. “It was a very scary situation. It was a crime of opportunity.”[/quote]

So, we so far have Republican standbys like Coulter and Liddy expressing their unambiguous support for those who would shoot or bomb even low-level functionaries within the Clinton-era goverment. Apparently these guys are actually rewarded (e.g., guest of honor at the GOP’s “Salute to Talk Radio” for Liddy) for this kind of talk.

Now, I have to ask if what the Republican stallwarts is asking for is really all that far away from the extremists apparently behind the murder of this federal judge’s family. Even “classic” conservatives like Buckley have to be wondering what’s going on… back in the day he was so willing to take on guys like Pat Buchanan over their racism. The GOP isn’t supposed to be about this, is it?

It seems that the judges family might have been killed by a regular old psychotic.
“After I shot husband and mother of Judge Lefkow, I had a lot of time to think about life and death. Killing is no fun, even though I knew I was already dead. I gave up further killings on about 1:15 p.m. on Feb. 28, 2005, and left Judge Lefkow’s house,” the station quoted the letter as saying.

The strange thing is that this thread was a bit premature but every single bit on the money when it comes to the feelings of the extreme right. Look at exactly the sort of money being put up to kill Michael Schiavo and the judge ruling on the Terri Schiavo case matter.

http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050325/APN/503251053&cachetime=5

[quote]Meywes is accused of sending an e-mail putting a $250,000 bounty “on the head of Michael Schiavo” and another $50,000 to eliminate a judge who denied a request to intervene in the Schiavo case, the FBI said in a prepared statement. The FBI did not identify the judge.

“It is my understanding that whoever eliminates Michael Schiavo from the plant while inflicting as much pain and suffering that he can bear stands to be paid this reward in cash,” the e-mail said, according to a text of the message contained in an affidavit prepared by Tampa FBI agent A.J. Gilman.

The e-mail also noted the recent death of a judge in Atlanta and the death of a judge’s family members in Illinois.[/quote]

“Right to life” my ass. The f*cking kooks that the GOP chooses to pander to are violent and, even worse, ideologically inconsistent. Add in how the conservatives absolutely love Coulter (cheering on Tim McVeigh) and heap honors upon Liddy (telling folks to shoot federal agents in the head), and you get some idea of how far the Republicans have gone from the mainstream.

Thanks, Mofangongren, for mentioning this. Since I seldom read Ann Coulter’s odious web site, I hadn’t realized that she was cheering on McVeigh. I went and looked it up on Google, and thought it should be shared by all here. From an interview with John Hawkins:

John Hawkins: You’ve caught a lot of heat for a couple of quotes you made. In your column three days after 9/11, you said, “We know who the homicidal maniacs are.They are the ones cheering and dancing right now.
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.” You also said in an interview with the New York Observer, “My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York
Times Building.” Do you stand by those quotes or do you think that perhaps you should have phrased them differently?

Ann Coulter: Ozzy Osbourne has his bats, and I have that darn “convert them to Christianity” quote. (Thank you for giving the full quote. I have the touch, don’t I?) Some may not like what I said, but I’m still waiting to hear a better suggestion.

RE: McVeigh quote. Of course I regret it. I should have added, “after everyone had left the building except the editors and reporters.”

Can you imagine what the reaction from the conservatives would be if, let us say, Dan Rather stated that Bin Laden should blow up the National Review or Fox News?

These people - Liddy, Coulter, etc - shouldn’t be called Neocons. They are neo-Nazis.

cheers,
DB

They’re nutbars. Nitwits. My impression is that the reasonable right (and they’re not as small a group as the irrational left would like to think) does indeed distance itself from them.

But do they disown them as much as the left disowns Moore and Chomsky and other kooks? I’d like to see a comprehensive study done on that one. My impression is that the reasonable left is less willing to break fully with its nutbars than is the reasonable right with its fruitcakes.

MFGR:

Say it isn’t so. Another one of your threads that has foundered on lack of facts? haha

BUT while you may not have proof for this one, let’s stop talking about this then and head to a new area of sweeping allegations so (slight of hand) let’s look at the Terri Schiavo card? haha