# Austronesian etymology and loanwords **URL:** \ **Category:** Taiwanese and Hakka Corner\ **Created:** [November 12, 2020, 9:28am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898 "2020-11-12T09:28:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 9:28am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/1 "2020-11-12T09:28:23Z")
I looked around and have no idea where to share this info. I realized I’ve created a bunch of threads on my small random discoveries in the past. Perhaps with this more general title, mods can merge some of them here as well. Panay is a popular Pangcah Amis girl name. It means rice in the fields. It’s also the name of the lead character of the 2015 film Wawa No Cidal. The English title for the movie is simply Panay. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/omeR5XSJQPA/maxresdefault.jpg "《太陽的孩子》正式預告－有一種力量，叫溫柔") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omeR5XSJQPA) The word Panay came from the PAn root word \*pajay. [https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s\_p.htm#30474](https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_p.htm#30474) ![image](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/6/1/6130a516e5eae652b1147037e75992f2e4f79136.png) In Taiwan, \*pajay became panay, pagay, pazay, palay, paday. When Austronesian langauges expanded out of Taiwan, all these forms were also propagated as well. In Tagalog, we have pálay meaning rice plant, and palay-an meaning rice fields. In some languages, pagey means unhusked rice. The word came to mean rice fields in some areas, such as in padi in Malay and Bali. When the English got to Malaysia, they borrowed the Malay word for rice fields, and that’s how we ended up with paddy, as in rice paddies. Ultimately, that English word came from Taiwan. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 4:59am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/2 "2021-05-13T04:59:37Z")
Just saw a word list of reconstructed Proto-Kra-dai, which is a language family that includes Thai. | Gloss | Proto-Kra–Dai | | --- | --- | | blood | \*pɤlaːc | | bone | \*Kudɤːk | | ear | \*qɤrɤː | | eye | \*maTaː | | hand | \*(C)imɤː | | nose | \*(ʔ)idaŋ | | tongue | \*(C)əmaː | | tooth | \*lipan | | dog | \*Kamaː | | fish | \*balaː | | horn | \*paquː | | louse | \*KuTuː | | fire | \*(C)apuj | | stone | \*KaTiːl | | star | \*Kadaːw | | water | \*(C)aNam | | I (1.SG) | \*akuː | | Thou (2.SG) | \*isuː; amɤː | | one | \*(C)itsɤː | | two | \*saː | | die | \*maTaːj | | name | \*(C)adaːn | | full | \*pətiːk | | new | \*(C)amaːl | | ‘thin’ | \*C-báːŋ | | ‘bone’ | \*Cudə́ːk | | ‘boat’ | \*Cuɖáː | | ‘borrow’ | \*C-ɟáːm | | ‘village’ | \*Cəˀbáːnʔ | | ‘winnow basket’ | \*Cəˀdóŋʔ | | ‘to stand’ | \*Cəˀɟún | | ‘dog’ | \*kʰ[u]máː | | ‘ditch’ | \*[t]-m̥ˠáːŋ | | ‘ant’ | \*r-móȶ | | ‘bear’ | \*kəˀmˠúj | | ‘thick’ | \*tsəˀnáː | | ‘cold’ | \*kəˀȵít | | ‘stupid’ | \*Cəˀŋáːŋh | | ‘gills’ | \*Cəˀŋˠáːk | | ‘taro’ | \*pəˀrˠáːk | | ‘moan’ | \*gəˀráːŋ | | ‘hungry’ | \*məˀjáːk | | ‘stupid’ | \*Cəˀwáːʔ | I mean, most of those are almost exactly the same as Proto-Austronesian… | Gloss | Proto-Kra–Dai | Proto-Austronesian | | --- | --- | --- | | blood | \*pɤlaːc | \*biRaq | | eye | \*maTaː | \*maCa | | hand | \*(C)imɤː | \*qa-lima | | tongue | \*(C)əmaː | \*Sema | | tooth | \*lipan | \*ŋipen | | louse | \*KuTuː | \*kuCux | | fire | \*(C)apuj | \*Sapuy | | water | \*(C)aNam | \*daNum | | I (1.SG) | \*akuː | \*aku | | Thou (2.SG) | \*isuː; amɤː | \*i-kaSu | | one | \*(C)itsɤː | \*isa | | two | \*saː | \*duSa | | die | \*maTaːj | \*ma-aCay | | ‘borrow’ | \*C-ɟáːm | \*Sezam | | ‘bear’ | \*kəˀmˠúj | \*Cumay | | ‘taro’ | \*pəˀrˠáːk | \*biRaq | So many cognates. Although, the two seem to have split before boat was invented, as it’s \*Cuɖáː in Proto-Kra-Dai and \*qabaŋ in Proto-Austronesian. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/3 "2022-11-28T01:43:43Z")
So in 2008, Sagart proposed that Kra-Dai languages derived from Puluqish speaking people from Taiwan who migrated back to the Asian mainland. Puluquish or Puluqic are basically one linguistic innovation away from those who migrated to the Philippines and became the Malayo-Polynesian people. Compares to the PAN, Puluquish already went through a series of changes, such as using Pitu for 7 (Pituish) as an abbreviation of \*RaCepituSa ‘five-and-two’, replacing five \*RaCep with the word for hand, \*lima (Limaish), replacing six from ‘five-and-one’ or ‘twice-three’ with repeating 3 twice, \*Nem-Nem \> \*emnem (Enemish), in addition to 5 and 6, the number eight and nine are formed as \*RaCepat(e)lu ‘five-and-three’ and \*RaCepiSepat ‘five-and-four’ (Walu-Siwaish), before we finally get to Puluquish, which forms the number ten as \*sa-puluq, from \*sa- ‘one’ + ‘separate, set aside’. Formosan languages fall all over this spectrum, Amis, Puyuma, and Paiwan all fall into the Puliquish language sub-family. The number system is one aspect of languages that usually changes very slowly. So the fact that Proto-Kra-Dai shares all the innovations for 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 shows it didn’t branch off from PAN and developed in parallel with languages in Taiwan. ![image](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/4/d/4da98ff58ab605aa1a805797da62224cfeba1dff.png) ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 5:38am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/4 "2022-11-29T05:38:29Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/k9GaAU-SYWk/hqdefault.jpg "More Austro-Tai Comparisons and Observations on Vowel Correspondences - Alex Smith - SEALS 2021") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GaAU-SYWk) Kra-dai and Austronesian comparison ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 8:29am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/5 "2022-11-29T08:29:36Z")
> **[2021%2015ICAL%20Olomouc\_revised.pdf](https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-03324863/file/2021%2015ICAL%20Olomouc_revised.pdf)** > > 1654.20 KB Sagart’s presentation on how he concluded KD is a sister branch of MP. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 2:23am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/6 "2022-12-01T02:23:23Z")
I just realized that the word for sea turtle in Proto-Austronesian is \*peñu, and in living languages through out Taiwan and the Philippines, the word is either penu, peno or panno. This could probably be the etymology for Penghu, which was originally written as 平湖 and would have been pronounced as pênn-ôo. This word is kept even into the Maori language, where sea turtles are called honu in Te Reo. The word for eel, \*tuNa, is also kept in Polynesian langauges, and is still tuna in Te Reo. The act of catching eel using lights is called rama tuna. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/fk7iZ3PsEc8/hqdefault.jpg "Why do Polynesians say "wai' / "vai", Malays say "air" and some Filipinos say "tubig"?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk7iZ3PsEc8) The amazing Languages to Learn channel has an episode explaining why the word for fresh drinking water is different across Austronesian languages and how they are all related. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 7:15am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/7 "2022-12-01T07:15:15Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/sUyILOyKW9U/maxresdefault.jpg "The Paiwan Language") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUyILOyKW9U) Don’t know where to put this, but Brian Loo Soon Hua basically compares Paiwan phonology and grammar with Malaysian and Filipino languages. It’s pretty amazing, and probably the best explanation of focus markers I’ve ever heard. ---
**Author:** ![yanganlun](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/y/9de0a6/32.png) [@yanganlun](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yanganlun)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/8 "2022-12-01T16:42:47Z")
> [@hansioux](#): > > So in 2008, Sagart proposed that Kra-Dai languages derived from Puluqish speaking people from Taiwan who migrated back to the Asian mainland. I am not a linguist, but have heard that Chinese linguists classify Tai-Kradai languages as Sino-Tibetan. Your point is, are they Austronesian? ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/9 "2022-12-01T23:58:37Z")
> [@yanganlun](#): > > Your point is, are they Austronesian? Sagart made his assessment based on linguistic evidence, Chinese linguists made their conclusion based on political needs. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/10 "2022-12-02T01:14:08Z")
> [@hansioux](#): > > Puluquish already went through a series of changes, such as using Pitu for 7 (Pituish) as an abbreviation of \*RaCepituSa ‘five-and-two’ [https://kaxabu.ithuan.tw/七](https://kaxabu.ithuan.tw/%E4%B8%83) Kaxabu’s 7 is xasepbidusa, which retains \*RaCepituSa perfectly. This Kaxabu audio dictionary by Phuann Kim-gio̍k and published online by iTuan is amazing. Kaxabu numbers: | Number | Kaxabu | PAN | Math | | --- | --- | --- | --- | | 1 | adang | ? | 1 | | 2 | dusa | \*duSa | 2 | | 3 | turu, tu’u | \*telu | 3 | | 4 | sepat | \*Sepat | 4 | | 5 | xasep | \*RaCep | 5 | | 6 | xasepbuza | \*RaCepesa ? | 5+1 | | 7 | xasepbidusa | \*RaCepituSa | 5+2 | | 8 | xasepbitu’u | \*RaCepitu’u | 5+3 | | 9 | xasepbisupat | \*RaCepiSepat | 5+4 | | 10 | isit | ? | ? | ---
**Author:** ![yanganlun](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/y/9de0a6/32.png) [@yanganlun](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yanganlun)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 2:17am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/11 "2022-12-02T02:17:11Z")
So Tai-Kradai and Austronesian are related? Originated from the same common language ages ago? ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 2:36am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/12 "2022-12-02T02:36:04Z")
> [@yanganlun](#): > > So Tai-Kradai and Austronesian are related? Originated from the same common language ages ago? Sagart’s position is that the Kra-Dai and Malayo-Polynesian are sister languages. You can refer to the list of obvious cognates in Proto-Kra-Dai and proto-Austronesian in the list I compiled. > [@Austronesian etymology and loanwords](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/2): > > Just saw a word list of reconstructed Proto-Kra-dai, which is a language family that includes Thai. Gloss Proto-Kra–Dai blood \*pɤlaːc bone \*Kudɤːk ear \*qɤrɤː eye \*maTaː hand \*(C)imɤː nose \*(ʔ)idaŋ tongue \*(C)əmaː tooth \*lipan dog \*Kamaː fish \*balaː horn \*paquː louse \*KuTuː fire \*(C)apuj stone \*KaTiːl star \*Kadaːw water \*(C)aNam I (1.SG) \*akuː Thou (2.SG) \*isuː; amɤː one \*(C)itsɤː two \*saː die \*maTaːj name \*(C)adaːn full \*pətiːk new \*(C)amaːl … Back then I said the word for boat in Kra-Dai, \*Cuɖá, seems to be unrelated to \*qabaŋ in Proto-Austronesian. I was wrong, \*Cuɖá seems to be the cognate of the PAn word for oar, \*aluja. It went through a semantic change where the oar eventually meant the entire boat, as suggested by the video I referenced here: > [@Austronesian etymology and loanwords](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/4): > > [[More Austro-Tai Comparisons and Observations on Vowel Correspondences - Alex Smith - SEALS 2021] ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GaAU-SYWk) Kra-dai and Austronesian comparison ---
**Author:** ![yanganlun](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/y/9de0a6/32.png) [@yanganlun](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yanganlun)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/13 "2022-12-02T03:05:43Z")
So we have Austro-Asiatic, Austronesian, Hmong-Mien, Tai-Kradai, Sino-Tibetan families in our region. Could be all related, but I think it is unsolvable problem to prove that. What they have adopted from each other by living side by side in the same region, or what they had originally had in their languages? We can just stick with different probabilities, make different Swadesh lists, can play with statistics accordingly. By structure, all these languages are pretty much the same. It is like Nostratric family hypothesis, which says that basically all languages are related and finds similarities between, for example, the Caucasus languages like Georgian and Sino-Tibetan. By the way, what do you think about Altaic: (Turkic: Mongolic: Tungusic: Koreanic, Japonic): ? Are they the family? ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:23am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/14 "2022-12-02T03:23:58Z")
> [@yanganlun](#): > > By structure, all these languages are pretty much the same. Trans-Himalayan languages are structurally different from Austronesian languages both in phonetics and grammar. PAn is verb-initial language, and the order could be VSO or VOS because there are also focus markers such as a, nua, tua, i, sa and so on. None of that is in Trans-Himalayan languages. Sometimes we can tell whether a word is a loan word or not by checking to see if it fits into the phonetic system of the language. You can even figure out if a word is borrowed within a language family, such as Pinuyumayan borrowing the word for peach, ɭupas, from Pangcah’s lopas because had it naturally evolved from PAn, the word would conformed to Pinuyumayan sound changes, and would less likely to be an irregular sound change. ---
**Author:** ![yanganlun](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/y/9de0a6/32.png) [@yanganlun](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/yanganlun)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/15 "2022-12-02T03:46:30Z")
> [@yanganlun](#): > > Austro-Asiatic, Austronesian, Hmong-Mien, Tai-Kradai, Sino-Tibetan families i But generally you can distinguish these families: Austro-Asiatic, Austronesian, Hmong-Mien, Tai-Kradai, Sino-Tibetan? I guess there are some clear criteria, like Vietnamese is Austro-Asiatic, but most of its vocabulary is from Chinese? ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 6:57am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/16 "2022-12-02T06:57:04Z")
> [@yanganlun](#): > > But generally you can distinguish these families: Austro-Asiatic, Austronesian, Hmong-Mien, Tai-Kradai, Sino-Tibetan? Most linguists don’t use the term Tai–Kadai anymore. There is no r if you want to call it Tai-Kadai. There are two main branches of the Kra-Dai language, Kra and Dai, hence the name. Dai is the reconstructed proto-form of Tai. It’s obviously easy to tell most of these languages apart now. However, just like how we’d classify animals now, we classify languages based on their lineage. Sagart is simply presenting evidence to suggest that Kra-Dai is a branch of Austronesian language family. It’d be pretty similar to how easy it is to tell tigers and lions apart, but still classify them under the felidae family. > [@yanganlun](#): > > Vietnamese is Austro-Asiatic, but most of its vocabulary is from Chinese? Most of English’s vocabulary is from Latin and French, that doesn’t make it a Romance language. Vietnamese, Japanese, and Korean all have large amounts of Sinitic loanwords. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 7:15am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/17 "2022-12-13T07:15:01Z")
Found several papers on the underlying Austronesian influence in the Japonic languages. [https://pure.mpg.de/rest/items/item\_2509069\_3/component/file\_2509068/content](https://pure.mpg.de/rest/items/item_2509069_3/component/file_2509068/content) This paper says that some rice related words in Japonic were from Austronesian. | OJ/PJ | PAN | English | | --- | --- | --- | | \*usu | \*lusuŋ | rice mortar | | \*kəmai | \*Semay | cooked rice | | \*wasara | \*baCaR | millet | Other papers has these: | OJ/PJ | PAN/PMP | English | Comment | | --- | --- | --- | --- | | \*paCu-Ci, \*poy | \*Sapuy | Fire | \>hapuy\>apuy\>puCu. puzu in Tsou, apuy | | \*pusu | \*pujek | navel | pozok in Saisiyat, pusuq in Bunun, poucol in Siraya, busel in Kavalan, \*pusej in PMP | | \*pi-tau | \*tau | Person | | | \*pata | \*paCan | Pair | Only in PMP, pasaŋ in most present forms. Could be from pa-duSa-an, something being made into 2 | | \*titi | \*susu | Breasts | I think PAN should be \*tutu. It’s tutu or cucu in multiple Formosan languages. t \> ts \> s is a more common direction of sound change. | | \*ka | \*ka(n) | Food | Eat in PAN | | \*kaCu-Ci | \*kaSiw | Tree | kasuy, kayu in multuplay Formosan languages | | \*si | \*si | 3rd person singular pronoun | | | \*sisi | \*Sesi | meat | | | \*tsaka-Ci | \*sakat | climb up, ascend | \*sakay in PMP, \*sakay in PAN means walk | | \*wayi | \*way | Water | | | \*koma | \*Cumay | Bear | kumay in Seediq | ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 10:03am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/18 "2022-12-29T10:03:52Z")
I was looking up native words for the Formosan leopard cat (also called mountain cats or 石虎). The Saisiyat calls them balbalan. What’s interesting is the Truku word for these rare felines is Kramu. I think it’s a cognate for the Malay word for Malaysian tigers, harimau. Kramu → harimau K \> ha’ ra → ri mu → mau ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 9:58am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/19 "2023-02-14T09:58:03Z")
Just a thought… No one knows what the etymology for Ryukyu is. All we know is that it came from Middle Chinese 流求 (MC lɨu-ɡɨu). Also, there obviously was a substrate of Austronesian in Old Ryukyuan. So assuming Ryukyu is of Austronesian origin, what would it have been? > [@Evidence of Austronesian influence on Old Ryukyuan](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/evidence-of-austronesian-influence-on-old-ryukyuan/214351): > > I was watching this video, and notice the Old Ryukyuan word for the sun, tidaN. The Pangcah Amis word for the sun, cidal, immediately jumped out at me. I googled a little and found this paper: [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparative-development-of-OR-teda-sun-sedo-boatman-and-sendoo-boatman-in-the-Sino\_tbl2\_351810336](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparative-development-of-OR-teda-sun-sedo-boatman-and-sendoo-boatman-in-the-Sino_tbl2_351810336) The author claims that a number of words related to celestial bodies in Old Ryukyuan, attested in texts such as Omoro Sōshi and Konkōkenshū, are Austronesian in origin. … In this thread, I posted examples of Austronesian words in Old Ryukyuan. > words related to celestial bodies in Old Ryukyuan, attested in texts such as Omoro Sōshi and Konkōkenshū, are Austronesian in origin. > > | | OR | Pangcah | PAN | Comments | > | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | > | sun, sky, heaven, deity | tidaN | cidal | \*siNaʀ | tadengal in Pancah means day break | > | sun shine, ray, beam | sino | mi-cidal | \*siNaʀ | | > | heaven | kawa | kawas | \*kawaS | | > | moon | ora | folad | \*bulaN | | In the \*bulaN \> ora example, we can see final N is dropped, as well as l \> r. So if we work backwards, I think it’d be possible for Ryukyu to be cognates with the Paiwan word for orchids, ljangaw, aka Liang-kiau, aka 琅𤩝, aka present day Kenting. > [@SEQALU: Formosa 1867 (aka Lady the Butterfly), Karisi Flowers (傀儡花) (Spoiler Alert)](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/seqalu-formosa-1867-aka-lady-the-butterfly-karisi-flowers-spoiler-alert/182202/103): > > I just found it. It was more difficult than it ought to be. There is no orchid entry in any of the Paiwan dictionaries I can find online. Most of the entries for flower lists the Japanese loanword hana. I even saw an entry for orchid in a speech of a student which seems to list it as maretimaljimalji. Finally, in a Tainan city [Paiwan textbook](http://web.tn.edu.tw/ierct/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/4-Paiwan-content.pdf), it lists 3 words for flower, hana, vuciar, and Veljangaljangaw. That ljangaw part must had been the etymology for Long-kiau. If that’s the case, t… I think either it came from \*Raŋaw meaning creeping vines, which orchids have that, in the wild they climb on trees. Or may be it came from \*laŋkaw meaning tall, high, or lofty. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898/20 "2023-04-19T06:36:13Z")
I was watching this video [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0KPNBDoweU/maxresdefault.jpg "Philippine Languages Comparison PART 2 | Tagalog Bisaya Kapampangan Ilocano Waray Bikol Hiligaynon") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0KPNBDoweU) The word for leaf in several Filipino languages is related to \*dahun, which is listed as a PMP cognate, without a PAN equivalent. > **[太魯閣語–詞項分享| 原住民族語言線上詞典](https://e-dictionary.ilrdf.org.tw/search/terms/28768.htm)** > > 【跟我 e 起學族語】：dahung，解釋：瘀血、吸血草（咬人貓,植物名） (太魯閣語)。 However, the word dahung in Truku and probably Seediq refers to a common weed in Taiwan, the hairy nettle. ![image](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/d/1/d1cc4079aeb8418689496239f6d2bc2be216d18a.jpeg) I wonder if those are related. [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/austronesian-etymology-and-loanwords/198898.md?page=2)