There’s no question that a 150 single-origin pour-ever is a much better 'value' for your than anything else in a coffee shop. It’s also the reason that espresso is the king: 27 coffees per pound of much cheaper espresso blend coffee, made quicker and sold for $120 is more than 600% markup.
Well,you are right, that’s the price for something tasting like coffee in an independently owned Zhongshan cafe, where i live (and many other areas as well), what i get for less than that is a milk pool or an acid over extracted liquid that crashes my stomach.
But you are right, at Cama cafe or Wilbeck, etc price is much lower: Most of those places display fancy machines and roasters, brag about imported freshly roasted perfectly grinded beans… and then waste the coffee keeping the temperature of their machines really high and burning the milk when frothing it… either to match the Asian taste or to emulate Starbucks formula.
About Starbucks, Ikari, Dante and other Starbucks replicas: i don’t (personally) consider that coffee, that is fast food. Just try to drink a Starbucks solo expresso shot. Tastes like medicine.
I personally think there’s so much snobbism and ritualization of that drink in Asia, like those french-bakery-inspired sweets that look like little sculptures and then they are chemical-laden industrial premixed doughs at really high prices.
Coffee is about how you manipulate it more than imported single origin beans and fancy machines.
Yes, but knowledge of coffee is pretty high here compared to most places. It’s a bit of a coffee Mecca in Asia. The pastries and cakes aren’t good though, Japan blows Taiwan away on that score.
There are big profits in selling coffee to tourists seemingly, that coffeeshop in Tamshui where the murders took place was raking in a lot of money. You need to have the turnover of people.
I must admit this discussion of coffee culture in Taiwan and various cafes and so forth is fascinating. But to get back to my original question, where the hell can I get some reasonably fresh roasted pre-ground, so I can have my morning coffee at home? I know I can get beans at Carrefour, but Christ only knows how long some of those have been sitting on the shelves. I just figured there must be SOME place that sells little bags of ground and pre-ground somewhere.
And if I do end up just having to buy some unground to tide me over, anyone know where I can grab one of those Porlex hand-grinders another poster mentioned?
Thank God I am a simpleton. I wonder how much money I’ll save over my lifetime because I don’t need to spend an extra 100 NT per cup to get something that tastes like good coffee to me. I wonder how much I’ll save over my lifetime on coffee AND wine? 
I don’t doubt that there are some people who can genuinely tell the difference (and really appreciate the difference) between good and great coffee, but I think smoke and mirrors are as prevalent in the coffee industry as in the wine industry.
Blind taste testings would probably embarrass half the posers and then maybe save them a ton o’ cash.
Not sayin’ any o’ you guys are posers. I’m sure you’re all the real deal with finely-tuned taste buds.
I think it’s worth every consumer’s time to study the ways that Madison Avenue tries to get you to spend more. This link shows some of the most basic tricks:
conversionxl.com/pricing-experim … arn-from/#.
When I read about the pricing tricks, I say, “That might work on hundreds of Harvard students, but I’m too smart to fall for it.”
"If your product is more expensive than the common reference points, you need to change the perception of the category you’re in.
How did Starbucks get away with starting to charge $3 and more for coffee, when most other cafes were charging $1 or so? They changed the experience of buying coffee, so the perception of what people were getting, changed. It was like a different category product.
They also changed the name. Not just coffee, but Pike’s Place brew or Caramel Macchiato.
If you’re creating a new category, there’s no price reference and people are much more likely to accept any price you name."
[quote=“zender”]Thank God I am a simpleton. I wonder how much money I’ll save over my lifetime because I don’t need to spend an extra 100 NT per cup to get something that tastes like good coffee to me. I wonder how much I’ll save over my lifetime on coffee AND wine?
I don’t doubt that there are some people who can genuinely tell the difference (and really appreciate the difference) between good and great coffee, but I think smoke and mirrors are as prevalent in the coffee industry as in the wine industry.
Blind taste testings would probably embarrass half the posers and then maybe save them a ton o’ cash.
Not sayin’ any o’ you guys are posers. I’m sure you’re all the real deal with finely-tuned taste buds.
I think it’s worth every consumer’s time to study the ways that Madison Avenue tries to get you to spend more. This link shows some of the most basic tricks:
conversionxl.com/pricing-experim … arn-from/#.
When I read about the pricing tricks, I say, “That might work on hundreds of Harvard students, but I’m too smart to fall for it.”
"If your product is more expensive than the common reference points, you need to change the perception of the category you’re in.
How did Starbucks get away with starting to charge $3 and more for coffee, when most other cafes were charging $1 or so? They changed the experience of buying coffee, so the perception of what people were getting, changed. It was like a different category product.
They also changed the name. Not just coffee, but Pike’s Place brew or Caramel Macchiato.
If you’re creating a new category, there’s no price reference and people are much more likely to accept any price you name."[/quote]
But I thought that a wide variety of good coffees was what made Taiwan so vibrant and was what accounted for Taiwan’s high place in the Coffee House rankings (I think it’s, like, number 7 or 8, though it may have gone down after the September Coffee Strife).
But it is true that excessive attention is being paid to coffee, when the real opportunity to rise in the Coffee House rankings lies in improvement of the quality of our pastries. We need to stop fretting over soil acidity, elevation, etc., and amend the law so that we can bring over some good pastry chefs.
What piffle, zender. Bad coffee tastes burnt, or watery. Just like bad wine tastes like vinegar.
Now in a blind taste test would people prefer the$40 CAMA to the $180 guatemalan at Frank & Sam’s? Maybe. But as one is for takeaway and the other to be savored somewhere nice I have no problem with the different pricing.
And after 4 months in Malaysia, a place I expected too have good coffee, and finding burnt shit, or watery gourmet, I can say that it isn’t all subjective.
[quote=“garygibson”]But to get back to my original question, where the hell can I get some reasonably fresh roasted pre-ground, so I can have my morning coffee at home? I know I can get beans at Carrefour, but Christ only knows how long some of those have been sitting on the shelves. I just figured there must be SOME place that sells little bags of ground and pre-ground somewhere.
And if I do end up just having to buy some unground to tide me over, anyone know where I can grab one of those Porlex hand-grinders another poster mentioned?[/quote]
I get coffee beans from “Partner Coffee” / 淡水伙伴咖啡工坊 - if you’re in Danshui, that’s helpful to you; if not, oh well. They sell bags of different kinds of beans, and they print the date of roasting (rather than expiry date) on the bags. Plus they’ve got lots of coffee equipment for sale, like hand grinders. They’ll grind the beans if you want (grind is “磨 / mó”, I think). The bag currently in my freezer is … let’s see … “Dorman Kilimanjaro”, 450NTD for 454 grams. They’ve got different beans with price points from around 250NTD up to 800 or so. I usually buy whatever’s been roasted in the past few days that’s in the 400-450 range because I’m an idiot who doesn’t want to seem cheap, and I’m pretty sure my palate can’t distinguish high end from medium.
But I had the impression these kinds of shops are fairly common around Taipei now. I go to that one because it’s close to me.
You guys drink what you may find, as long as it is not 3-in-1 or any other “instant” bilge water, most stuff you can buy here is pretty nice and will certainly hit the spot. Me? I got my 4 kilos from dear ol Dad, who went to our tradition Central Market to get me fresh just picked and roasted, Peabody. When this runs out… I’ll weep. I like my coffee chocolatey, thick, dark, and sweet. With milk. No foams, no flavors, no fuss.
There is this roast/coffee shop in Xindian, little alley on the right just before the J-Mart. Laobang niang is really a perfectionist when it comes to her stuff. Try it sometime.
Partner coffee is great. For those who don’t know the area, it’s halfway up 學府路, on the corner where the road sweeps around to the left towards the university. You can’t miss it, it’s open-fronted and they’re usually roasting something. The boss seems to really know his stuff and they have lots of interesting beans. Personally I like their own blend because I’m a philistine. It’s a good place to sit and drink a reasonably priced coffee (NT$35), too.
See 35 NTD from an expert independent roaster…you won’t get they in NYC or Seattle or the Left Bank.
There’s a chain called OKlao that also sells roasted beans and equipment. Then there’s key coffee which can be found in a lot of department stores.
Where can you not find coffee, it’s everywhere!
[quote]I get coffee beans from “Partner Coffee” / 淡水伙伴咖啡工坊 - if you’re in Danshui, that’s helpful to you; if not, oh well. They sell bags of different kinds of beans, and they print the date of roasting (rather than expiry date) on the bags. Plus they’ve got lots of coffee equipment for sale, like hand grinders. They’ll grind the beans if you want (grind is “磨 / mó”, I think). The bag currently in my freezer is … let’s see … “Dorman Kilimanjaro”, 450NTD for 454 grams. They’ve got different beans with price points from around 250NTD up to 800 or so. I usually buy whatever’s been roasted in the past few days that’s in the 400-450 range because I’m an idiot who doesn’t want to seem cheap, and I’m pretty sure my palate can’t distinguish high end from medium.
But I had the impression these kinds of shops are fairly common around Taipei now. I go to that one because it’s close to me.[/quote]
[/quote]
See, it’s EXACTLY that kind of information I’m looking for. THANK YOU. I’m still down in Tainan, and will be for at least a couple of weeks. I grabbed something wit no English on it that was pre-ground from Carrefour. It’s…adequate. Barely. Very burnt-tasting and watery. Jesus, I’m no connoisseur, but after I started buying coffee online in the UK from www.hasbean.co.uk, that was it for me as far as instant or cheap coffee is concerned. I brought some over, but it just ran out, and while they’ll ship to here, it costs nearly as much for the postage as it does for the coffee itself (but if cost isn’t an issue for you, I’d advise you to try them RIGHT NOW).
When I’m finally up in Taipei, I’ll willingly go quite a bit out of my way to get a decent month or two’s supply of quality beans. Wherever it is.
There are some astoundingly good coffee shops in Tainan too. They just tend to be stuck down little alleyways that you’d never find unless someone familiar with the area showed you where there are.
If you speak Chinese (or get someone to ask for you) I’m sure Partner will send beans by express. 2626-7890.
It sounds to me like you’re just looking in the wrong places (Carrefour … srsly? 
). Even in Tainan, it’s hard to not walk past a coffee shop just by going out for a stroll.
Tainan also has a Costco which sells whole beans at a good price. Their Jamaican Blue Mountain and Guatemalans are decent for everyday use.
How much “Jamaican Blue Mountain” is grown each year? And how much is sold worldwide? I’m guessing it’s a 1 to 10 ratio. Maybe I’m too suspicious.
I think by law, they can say “Kona” as in “Kona blend” if they have at least 10% Kona coffee in it. I’m guessing most Kona blends have exactly 10% Kona coffee mixed with 90% cheaper varieties. Unless it says 100% Kona coffee, it’s almost certainly not. Is it the same for Jamaican Blue Mountain? I think it’s the same game they play with Civet Dung Coffee in Indonesia etc. I was in Bali last year and probably saw more kilograms of “Kopi Luwak” for sale than was produced.
And I’m not sayin’ that people (including me) don’t know the difference between bad/burnt/watery/3-in-1 coffee and great coffee; I’m sayin’ a lot of people wouldn’t know the difference between good and great coffee (and Thank God I realize I’m probably one of them).
I buy whole beans from Costco or Bee’s Coffee (Fu Hsing N Rd); grind 'em myself; and I pour over a simple plastic cone with a paper filter. It’s cheap and easy, and I like it.
Yep, the real deal is actually very modest:
Every time I hear a local saying they only drink “Italian coffee”, I want to:
Madre mia…
[quote=“zender”]How much “Jamaican Blue Mountain” is grown each year? And how much is sold worldwide? I’m guessing it’s a 1 to 10 ratio. Maybe I’m too suspicious.
I think by law, they can say “Kona” as in “Kona blend” if they have at least 10% Kona coffee in it. I’m guessing most Kona blends have exactly 10% Kona coffee mixed with 90% cheaper varieties. Unless it says 100% Kona coffee, it’s almost certainly not. Is it the same for Jamaican Blue Mountain? I think it’s the same game they play with Civet Dung Coffee in Indonesia etc. I was in Bali last year and probably saw more kilograms of “Kopi Luwak” for sale than was produced.
And I’m not sayin’ that people (including me) don’t know the difference between bad/burnt/watery/3-in-1 coffee and great coffee; I’m sayin’ a lot of people wouldn’t know the difference between good and great coffee (and Thank God and I realize I’m probably one of them).
I buy whole beans from Costco or Bee’s Coffee (Fu Hsing N Rd); grind 'em myself; and I pour over a simple plastic cone with a paper filter. It’s cheap and easy, and I like it.[/quote]
I heard the same about blue mountain coffee, it was the Japanese who made the price go through the roof years ago.
They do the same with Taiwan tea, which only needs to be something like 1% or 10% to be called made in Taiwan.
That would be Fuxing South Rd if you’re referring to the place just south of Civic. I always grab a free sample cup when they’re handing them out. Good place. Lots of coffee paraphernalia for sale.
[quote=“finley”]There are some astoundingly good coffee shops in Tainan too. They just tend to be stuck down little alleyways that you’d never find unless someone familiar with the area showed you where there are.
If you speak Chinese (or get someone to ask for you) I’m sure Partner will send beans by express. 2626-7890.
It sounds to me like you’re just looking in the wrong places (Carrefour … srsly? ). Even in Tainan, it’s hard to not walk past a coffee shop just by going out for a stroll.[/quote]
I’m definitely looking in the wrong places, no doubt. And Carrefour…tell me about it. But although there are almost certainly good coffee shops, I wanted something I can brew at home when I get up, rather than going out and cycling a couple of miles to get it every day. If some of those little coffee shops happened to sell the beans, that would be nice. If I spot some I can always ask (via my Mandarin-speaking wife).
[quote=“zender”]How much “Jamaican Blue Mountain” is grown each year? And how much is sold worldwide? I’m guessing it’s a 1 to 10 ratio. Maybe I’m too suspicious.
I think by law, they can say “Kona” as in “Kona blend” if they have at least 10% Kona coffee in it. I’m guessing most Kona blends have exactly 10% Kona coffee mixed with 90% cheaper varieties. Unless it says 100% Kona coffee, it’s almost certainly not. Is it the same for Jamaican Blue Mountain? I think it’s the same game they play with Civet Dung Coffee in Indonesia etc. I was in Bali last year and probably saw more kilograms of “Kopi Luwak” for sale than was produced.
And I’m not sayin’ that people (including me) don’t know the difference between bad/burnt/watery/3-in-1 coffee and great coffee; I’m sayin’ a lot of people wouldn’t know the difference between good and great coffee (and Thank God and I realize I’m probably one of them).
I buy whole beans from Costco or Bee’s Coffee (Fu Hsing N Rd); grind 'em myself; and I pour over a simple plastic cone with a paper filter. It’s cheap and easy, and I like it.[/quote]
Sure. I didn’t say the Costco Jamaican Blue Mountain was 100% Blue Mountain, just that it tastes good. Blending is not that big a deal as long as the price is still reasonable. Italians usually blend inferior coffee with better, for example.
I think you are missing my point though. I think going out for a NT$180 cup a day is ridiculous. I can make the same at home for much less with my own ground beans. But sometimes I do like a really good coffee when I am out, and to try new types. Never knew about bourbons and now its my favorite type of coffee.
I just think of it like trying a new scotch or craft beer.