The KMT won WWII along with the other Allied Powers. Did you forget that or do you choose to ignore it? I can tell you it wasn’t the Chinese Commies who were fighting the Imperial Japanese. And, Chiang and the KMT received Taiwan as the prize as promised by the Cairo Declaration. After WWII, the Allied Powers weren’t spreading democracy, they were splitting the spoils of war. A “Republic of Taiwan” was never in the cards. As far as the USA was concerned, Chiang was always going to get Taiwan just as he asked.
Come to think of it, what right did the Taiwanese have to expect/ask for anything after WWII? They fought for the Axis Powers; they were on the losing team!
It’s a harsh reality but a reality is a reality that we Taiwanese need to accept. It’s good for us Taiwanese to fully accept it so we may lick the wound, stand up, and keep going. Despite many breakdowns and obstacles, we Taiwanese have been doing reasonably good progress in terms of 1) chipping away KMT’s power, 2) historical revision, 3) forming a new self-identity, 4) letting the international community understand us, 5) understanding the world powers’ interest, 6) improving nonviolent protesting tactics, … etc.
Dirt, if you objectively read the trend of polls regarding Independence of Taiwan, you will realize that Independence of Taiwan is getting larger momentum among the youth and is becoming more sophisticated and intelligent.
Any my advice to all the observers of Independence of Taiwan: don’t equate DPP’s gain or lose with that of TI. (That DPP has not been able to turn TI support into concrete votes does not mean TI is fading away. On the contrary, it is assuming other creative forms.)
I personally don’t care when or from where one’s ancestor arrived in Taiwan. If you were born in Taiwan or Pescadore and if you are willing to pledge allegiance to the sovereignty of Taiwan, then you are a Stockholder of Taiwan Sovereignty. If you have a family or job here, then you are a Stakeholder of Taiwan Sovereignty.
Political analysts all blast the DPP for totally failing to raise a younger generation of politicians that grasp today’s politics. The show is still being run by Su Tseng-chang, Frank Hsieh, Yu Shyi-kun (however he spells his name), Chen Chu… The same people who have been in charge of the party since the beginning. The real crisis will come when they go up against younger rising KMT stars like Sean Lien, who seems to be pretty popular.
Actually… At that point, both KMT and communist forces were fighting back against the Japanese, eventually coming to an uneasy ceasefire (which later broke down). But you can’t say the communists played no part in fighting back.
Meanwhile, I wouldn’t credit Old Chiang with spreading democracy. Not at all.
Political analysts all blast the DPP for totally failing to raise a younger generation of politicians that grasp today’s politics. The show is still being run by Su Tseng-chang, Frank Hsieh, Yu Shyi-kun (however he spells his name), Chen Chu… The same people who have been in charge of the party since the beginning. The real crisis will come when they go up against younger rising KMT stars like Sean Lien, who seems to be pretty popular.[/quote]
It was from an article that Shelly Rigger wrote that I can no longer find. She talks about the old guard DPP and their fanatical hatred for anything Chinese and how they continue to keep power for themselves while not allowing the younger generation (around 40 and below) from taking much power. The younger generation, she said, doesn’t have the same fanatical hatred for anything Chinese like the old guard and understand that they must have a relationship with China; how that would play out, nobody knows because they’re still waiting for their time in the spotlight. It was quite the interesting article that I wish I could find.
Actually… At that point, both KMT and communist forces were fighting back against the Japanese, eventually coming to an uneasy ceasefire (which later broke down). But you can’t say the communists played no part in fighting back.
Meanwhile, I wouldn’t credit Old Chiang with spreading democracy. Not at all.[/quote]
The KMT did most of the fighting and so far as the Allies were concerned, it was Chiang who had to deliver.
And, I would not credit Roosevelt, Churchill and certainly not Stalin as spreading democracy either. They were all men of their time.
I personally don’t care when or from where one’s ancestor arrived in Taiwan. If you were born in Taiwan or Pescadore and if you are willing to pledge allegiance to the sovereignty of Taiwan, then you are a Stockholder of Taiwan Sovereignty. If you have a family or job here, then you are a Stakeholder of Taiwan Sovereignty.[/quote]
I was with you until this, why just the Pescadores? Why not also Kinmen and Matsu? You’re always leaving them out.
I personally don’t care when or from where one’s ancestor arrived in Taiwan. If you were born in Taiwan or Pescadore and if you are willing to pledge allegiance to the sovereignty of Taiwan, then you are a Stockholder of Taiwan Sovereignty. If you have a family or job here, then you are a Stakeholder of Taiwan Sovereignty.[/quote]
I was with you until this, why just the Pescadores? Why not also Kinmen (Jinmen) and Mazu? You’re always leaving them out.[/quote]
Kinmen and Mazu belong to China (either ROC or PRC). We Taiwanese have no sovereign right over them. But if the residents of these two islands want to be independent from China, perhaps joining Taiwan as a self-governed district, we Taiwanese are willing to send troops to help them with defense.
Local pride (“I am Taiwanese”) =/= statement on sovereignty
I think most people in Taiwan will not really care if the island becomes a SAR like Hong Kong and Macau as long as the assurances and benefits provide for no change in lifestyle or even an improvement. In fact the localisation movement would benefit a lot - why not make “Taiwanese” (Minnan) the official language and really localise education and government?
The KMT fought with the Japanese when it suited them. In fact, Japan’s LDP was created in consultation with Chiang. Much of Japan’s invasion of Manchuria was funded by the KMT. The KMT lost its war but the American’s needed a foil against Communist China so they established the KMT on Taiwan. The KMT is powerful through drugs, corruption, zoning law manipulation, and American military support not as the winner of the Second World War. What are you doing? A stand up routine?
[quote=“hsinhai78”]Local pride (“I am Taiwanese”) =/= statement on sovereignty
I think most people in Taiwan will not really care if the island becomes a SAR like Hong Kong and Macau as long as the assurances and benefits provide for no change in lifestyle or even an improvement. In fact the localisation movement would benefit a lot - why not make “Taiwanese” (Minnan) the official language and really localise education and government?[/quote]
I think that that’s the most likely scenario, or at least more likely than to plainly became part of China. I don’t think that China will invade anything anytime soon
I also think that if this ever happens, it could benefit Taiwan as a place with an acknowledged political status. this could also ease the things for foreigners who currently live in… well, a country recognized only by not so important countries that are paid for doing so xD
[quote=“hsinhai78”]
I think most people in Taiwan will not really care if the island becomes a SAR like Hong Kong and Macau as long as the assurances and benefits provide for no change in lifestyle or even an improvement.[/quote]
hsinhai78,
Would you please tell your Chinese Communist friends this? Looping rhetoric monotone like ‘SAR’ will not help you getting anywhere in taking over Taiwan. It has an opposite effect of showing weak will. Advise your CC friends that the only way to take over Taiwan is a successful military invasion.
The KMT fought with the Japanese when it suited them. In fact, Japan’s LDP was created in consultation with Chiang. Much of Japan’s invasion of Manchuria was funded by the KMT. The KMT lost its war but the American’s needed a foil against Communist China so they established the KMT on Taiwan. The KMT is powerful through drugs, corruption, zoning law manipulation, and American military support not as the winner of the Second World War. What are you doing? A stand up routine?[/quote]
Imperial Japan invaded Manchruia in 1931, the ROC and Imperial Japan were belligerants in the invasion. Why the hell would the ROC fund the military that they’re fighting? Where do you get your information?
That last USA! USA! line should be the national anthem of ROC on Taiwan, because without the USA it would have been extinct a LONG time ago. Heck even most of the KMT army would probably have died at hands of the Communists or the Japanese army or their own side.
Well, the ROC flag is red, white and blue. What other flag do we know of that has those colors? The ROC has always allied itself closely with the USA, there’s no shame in having friends; the USA itself would not be here today without the French. And for all their talk of independence and knowing that the US military would have to underwrite that, I think even the Pan-Greens understand the need for allies.
Well, the ROC flag is red, white and blue. What other flag do we know of that has those colors?[/quote]
Er… France?[/quote]
Yes, there’s France too. The country that helped the USA come into existence by fighting the British; without Lafayette and France, George Washington’s head would have ended up on a pike instead of the US dollar bill. It’s good to have friends, or at least, allies.
