IRA
LVF (N. Ireland)
Ulster Defense Force
ETA (Basque separatists)
Red Army (Japan)
Baader-Meinhoff (Europe)
Shining Path
Jewish Defense League
Various right-wing death squads, Central America
Cali drug cartel
Mafia
Tamil Tigers
NKVD (Stalin era)
KGB
Nazi SS
Khmer Rouge
Aryan Brotherhood
Timothy McVeigh
Irgun
Stern Gang
SDS
Black Panthers
Aum (sarin nerve gas, Japan)
Red Guard (cultural revolution)
Imperial Japanese Army
KMT (circa 1950-85)
KKK
Stasi
(I’m getting tired of typing. Did Fred actually mean ‘most terrorists active right now are Muslims’? If so, forget I said anything. He’s right. On the other hand, if that’s all he meant to say, forget Fred said anything too because he didn’t say anything meaningful.)
[quote]IRA
LVF (N. Ireland)
Ulster Defense Force
ETA (Basque separatists)
Red Army (Japan)
Baader-Meinhoff (Europe)
Shining Path
Jewish Defense League
Various right-wing death squads, Central America
Cali drug cartel
Mafia
Tamil Tigers
NKVD (Stalin era)
KGB
Nazi SS
Khmer Rouge
Aryan Brotherhood
Timothy McVeigh
Irgun
Stern Gang
SDS
Black Panthers
Aum (sarin nerve gas, Japan)
Red Guard (cultural revolution)
Imperial Japanese Army
KMT (circa 1950-85)
KKK
Stasi
[/quote]
What criteria did you use in compiling this list? From your point of view what makes, taking the first from your list, the Irish Republican Army a terrorist group and let’s say the US Army not? Targeting of civilians, or…?
Anyone who deliberately or even indiscriminantly targets civilians in pursuit of an objective is a terrorist.
I’m a US citizen and I voted for George Bush. That said I believe the US Army well knows it is going to kill large numbers of civilians as it pursues its enemies as aggressively as it does and, even though it could choose less aggressive means and still achieve its objectives, just doesn’t care to do so. As any Iraqi, Afghani, Lebanonese or Palestinian parent who has held the lifeless body of their child killed by American bombs, missiles or bullets well knows, the American government and people are as instrumental in the deaths of as many or more civilians around the world in pursuit of their national objectives as any group they condemn as terrorists.
Taiwan next on terrorists’ list? Could be. Not Core Pacific City, but more like a Kenting hotel or Taipei Train Station on a Sunday afternooon or a train track attack at Alishan or Keelung Port. It’s coming, for sure. With the publication of Satanic Verses here in Chinese, attacks coming for sure. Thanks, Joyce Yen, for publishing that reallly important book! Like we needed another bestseller like that here! Maybe CKS airport will blow. Something is brewing. In the next 2 years, Taiwan is doomed. Watch!
And at the same time, yes, Tokyo Disneyland, prime target for “enjo-terrorismo” … Tokyo is sure to blow soon.
Bali was just a foretaste of things to come. We are no longer safe. Afer 911, human civ as we used to know is a goner: the Muslims have taken over, and even more fanatic than the Xian evangeicals who took over the Americas in the name of Christ (killed the Indians en masse) … now it is our turn to be taken over and converted and killed by the xtream Muslim fundamentalists … who will stop at nothing … and will never stop. Until we have all been killed or converted. Christianity was tame compared to what the world is seeing now.
It’s all over. Did the fat lady already sing? O Jesus!
(About the only safe place right now …is Saudi Arabia. But who would want to live there?)
[quote=“Guest”]
I’m a US citizen and I voted for George Bush. That said I believe the US Army well knows it is going to kill large numbers of civilians as it pursues its enemies as aggressively as it does and, even though it could choose less aggressive means and still achieve its objectives, just doesn’t care to do so. As any Iraqi, Afghani, Lebanonese or Palestinian parent who has held the lifeless body of their child killed by American bombs, missiles or bullets well knows, the American government and people are as instrumental in the deaths of as many or more civilians around the world in pursuit of their national objectives as any group they condemn as terrorists.[/quote]
I must say that I agree with you on the point that America is also instrumental in the killing of civilians. That is also a big problem with old G. W. He is fucking dumb, and only interested in proffit. Why did you vote for such a dumb cunt? Because he doesn’t F*ck around? Well he sniffed coke and HE WAS ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS OF ENRON!!! Your previous president liked his woman, BIG DEAL, he was good for his country and the world. This bastard you’ve got now is sending the world on a course to war, and guess what, he’ll profit from it!!! Assasinate the heads of the terorist movements, that could work.
what exactly did clinton do that was good for the world? i mean, launching cruise missles at powdered milk factories didn’t exactly do much to make the middle east a better place. agreeing to china’s 3 no’s was a good thing if you believe taiwan belongs to china, i suppose. kosovo was a success except for all the rapes and killings that occured while he waited for “consensus” on what should have been done. somolia was a good idea, but the actual implementation left much to be desired. he knew the kyoto treaty would never get through congress so he punted it over to bush. classic clinton…cold, calculating politician and master of spin. but the rest of the world still loves him…just like the germans love david hasselhoff. go figure.
the difference between bush and clinton is that bush will tell you straight up that something won’t work, whereas clinton will make a sad face and tell you the he really agrees with you and wants to take your position, but OTHER people are twisting his arm and he has to reluctantly take a different position. but he agrees with you deep down…really! look, he’ll even cry for you to show you how much he cares!! tons more innocent civilians were killed by us forces in the clinton years, but it wasn’t his fault…it was those meanies in the pentagon and his cabinet. bush, i’m sure, does a little happy dance everytime an afghan or iraqi child dies.
btw, i didn’t vote for bush and i think karl rove is the devil, but anyone who likes to wax nostalgic about clinton’s foreign policy is just delusional.
There will be no attack in Taiwan as the taiwanese are on the ‘pay-roll’ that is the government support the war on ‘some’ terror. There will be no need for a strike in taiwan. The strike in Bali was aimed for one country and that was Austrailia. And then what did John Howard do? He signed an anti-terror pact, that the USA wanted him to sign.
Does this ring any bells so far? Basically what I am saying is the people blamed for the bali blasts are patsys. Who did it I don’t know, but it was done with Oz in mind. There is an area in Bali frequented by americans and that area is well known, why was it ignored? You decide.
The Lee harvey bin laden bullshit is getting tired. He is a patsy and the great evil one who is and will always be used as an excuse for bush and co to attack anywhere they like and then install a us friendly regime, and repatriate funds from the host country back to the USA. Which is what they do everywhere with capatilsm. It is nothing to do with religion, that is what they want us to believe. Saddam is next then maybe Syria and Iran. Don’t believe what the aminstream media are telling you, they are run and controlled by the multi-nationals whose agenda is - to invest and repatriate funds from the host country back to the USA, thus they have a common goal. Anyone who reads this and immediately dimisses this as crazy (as it is not the normal CNN way of thinking) is basically admitting to being narrow minded and myopic. Open you eyes and think more. Check out Noam Chomsky, Edward Said, Edward Herman.
Cake, no need to throw in the myopic blah blah blah, old egg. If you’ve really followed an open minded path on all this you’ll have noted that the accusations you made right before raising up the Ed Said, Chomsky battalion have done little but discount the well thought out opinions proffered by the likes of them and others. See for example the mileage Christopher Hitchens has made out of lefty slandering for example (he is in this instance a believer of the “CNN line” but of course isn’t always). http://www.enteract.com/~peterk/
A basic point for engaging in any debate is not to resort to meaningless slagging, unless of course you lack the grey matter to carry your point through with rational cool headed argument.
Taiwan targeted by terrorists?? Can someone please offer a reasonable argument why any member of any of the lists of outlawed/terrorist organisations above would want to do something here? I really can’t see it. Assuming the CNN world view, there’s no evidence that fundamenatlist Islamo-fascists have any particular beef with the yellow people in general. Mind you it is interesting to ponder that there really is one obvious country actively supressing an Islamic minority - China. But then China and Taiwan could hardly be called in cahoots on that or anything else.
Medication time! Sorry, lack the grey matter to keep going.
I lack the grey matter, lovely I can live with that all I am advocating is an opinion and how can my opionion discount anothers? All I was saying was check these people out. If you think what I said was balony maybe you believe a bandit from a cave managed to fly 4 planes in the US with out being detected, etc etc. Chomsky states Syria and Iran are next and that is good enough for me. I see no slagging in my post, maybe saying the US through capatilism (and the WTO, IMF) repatriate funds back to the USA is slagging- no it is fact. I am familar with Hitchens and find some of his thoughts interesting except when he advocates bombing. Hitchens is a leftie, I am of no political persuasion. Actually as you are a hitchens supporter maybe you should read this: abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Daily … 10501.html
Not having a dig at all…and while I’m fond of Hitchens pre- 9/11 stuff am certainly not with him since other than to balance up Said et al.
What I was commenting on specifically was this.
I don’t know, was it the tone? It does have a particular resonance which I think detracts from your point, one I am actually interested in.
The no grey matter was a joke…as in would’nt it be ironic to advocate not slagging someone by slagging them. Note I finished by saying the same thing about myself.
I didn’t really think you were having a go at me. With the CNN thing I was implying the problem is some people think that an opinion that is not the norm means the person could be a little weird and they immediately dismiss something becuase it seems unbelievable. I think you know the deal.
I was surprised that someone here actually was aware of people like chomsky and hitchens and that is good to see.
cheers
Cake - silly stuff. I don’t suppose you are now convinced by the capture of the bombers as to who the real culprits were? Obviously, the bombing was aimed at the Hindu business community in Bali and the (mostly) Australian tourists that support their trade. Get rid of the hindus livelihood, and you can claim another bit of Indonesia for Isalm. That is the view of a tiny, violent, and cynical group of terrorists who have hijacked the Islamic faith.
If you think it is silly stuff, I have no problem with that. I don’t know who the real culprits were, but I don’t for one minute believe it is the people arrested by a nation who murdered half a million of its citizens (sponsered by the US) in the mid 1960s. Results are needed and some religious loonies were arrested and no doubt beaten, tortured into saying anything the authorities want. Here is an interesting alternative take: homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymo … o_nuke.htm
do you guys actually check to see if the stuff these people write is factual? or do you just swallow it whole because hey, he hates the us and israel as much as you do so he must be right.
i’m no expert, but a single google search has proven one of his main theories wrong already. he keeps talking about how a bomb in omagh didn’t leave a crater while the one in bali did. here are some articles which mention the crater which he somehow overlooked:
gee, guess car bombs can cause craters. or maybe the evil americans and jews paid off those newspapers so they could cover up their conspiracy?
i mean, come on. how can you believe a guy who declares that no bombs placed on the surface can cause a crater? how supposedly suspicious people(i don’t believe the indonesians are telling the truth) become so gullible that they fall for such outright lies is amazing.
“The only way any explosive can cause a crater is if it is first dropped from an aircraft and penetrates sub-surface before exploding, or if it is physically positioned sub-surface in advance.”
lol. hillarious. absolutely stunning in his ability to tell an outright lie with a straight face and get people to believe it.
here’s another one:
"You see, Plutonium emits only alpha radiation, which for all practical purposes is
Yeah I do know that there is misleading information on this website as I was in consultation with Rense, regarding this information rense.com I posted the bali blast site with regards to an interesting alternative take. Interesting because you yourself and I looked at the information, analysed it and saw some discrepencies.
However I do not hate the US, I do not like US hegemony and foreign policy and I don not have any time for Zionism. Looking at the facts the US does not want peace in the middle east just as Israel does not want peace, they want the status quo. The peace offer by the Saudis this year yet again reinforces this view.
misleading information? how about big huge lies which contradict the laws of physics? the site is only interesting in the way that it shows how absolutely naive people are that they willingly swallow lies in their blind search to find someone who agrees with their view.
as for the us wanting the status quo, you’re getting your arguments confused. the us wants to reshape the middle east in its strategic interests by instigating a regime change in iraq. the people who want the status quo are the corrupt governments currently in power(including those nice saudis) and the euros who are too scared of change for fear that it might make things worse. us = we want to get rid of saddam. euros = let’s not rock the boat with an invasion. now how do you figure the americans want the status quo?
zionism was the movement that arose in the late 19th century to establish a state for the jews in palestine. well, the jews got their state, so the term is pretty much meaningless these days. only trotted out by people who need a polite way to express their anti-semitism. “zionist plot” has a better ring to it than “jewish conspiracy”.
Add to that the fact that GWB is the first US president to endorse the idea of a Palestinian State, on the condition that it first establish democratic institutions and observe the rule of law and dump the curropt Arafat and elect a leader in real open elections.
If a new democratic regime can be installed in Iraq and the Palestinians are given a democratic state, there will be plenty of inertia (the moving type) for Iran to continue in its reforms (as Iraq will no longer be a security concern to Iran) and nations such as Syria, Lebenon and Saudi Arabia will be under tremendous pressure to reform.
There are many peices that must be put in or fall into place for all of this to work… but it is a bold and innovative idea… and I am keeping my fingers crossed, as it seems to me the best chance for peace in the middle east, at least better than any plan offered in the past fifty years…
How can anyone possibly think the US wants to preserve the status quo in the middle east?
This was an evil bombing and we have to stand up to the terrorists that did it. If you believe in human rights, then stand up for the rights of the Aussies. Stop trying to blame the West. Get real.
