That’s fine. My point is that I don’t think it’s in their interest to emphasize that they’re outside Taiwan and never coming back (if that’s the case). You’re welcome to choose your own phrasing.
Not the experience I had at Huanan bank the other day, on either point.
The important thing is OP getting their money, and I see this as allowing the bank another opportunity to fix the problem and give them their money. If it doesn’t work, they can still complain. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
We don’t know how much complaining OP has done before, or if they just allowed themselves to be fobbed off by the first person they spoke to. More complaining, or even just talking to a different member of staff, might get the problem fixed faster and with less hassle. It’s another opportunity to get what they want - a fast one compared with complaining to the FSC/FOI - and it doesn’t cost them anything.
Disagree. Again, the two things aren’t mutually exclusive. And my only point with the bit you quoted is again that I don’t think it’s in OP’s interest to emphasize they’re never coming back to Taiwan (because it would make it difficult for them to cause more problems for the bank by attending mediation meetings or suing them or whatever).
No it wouldn’t. The first step is lodging an official complaint which the bank will take more seriously than some aggravated foreigner living abroad calling them or texting them on line.
I’m not sure why you posted the flowchart, but there are a couple of steps there that are quite obviously going to be way harder to do now they’re outside Taiwan, and that’s my point. I’ve no idea why you’re suggesting otherwise. If they’re not in Taiwan, it’s more difficult for them to attend mediation meetings in Taiwan, or do any other step of the process that requires physical presence or a signature - is that so difficult to understand? This is why I’m saying there’s no reason to volunteer the information that they’re outside and never coming back (if that’s the case).
You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing here. All I’ve said is that, from the information presented, another complaint to the bank might not be useless, and they don’t lose anything by attempting it. It’s just another opportunity to fix the problem in a way that’s convenient for OP. They can still complain to the FSC/FOI immediately after if it remains unresolved.
Another option is to give someone power of attorney of your account and ask them to wire the funds to you. I did this for a friend who returned to the USA so I could process his tax return to his Taiwan bank account then remit him the funds.
You don’t need to “attend” mediation proceedings. This is all done through the ombudsman. They mediate for you with the bank and you can communicate via email or over the phone.
You also do not need a “physical signature.” You can print out the form and scan it and upload it. You can also fill it out in English.
I don’t know what’s involved in the mediation proceedings - never done it. I will take your word for it if this is done exclusively online - I didn’t know that. I figured some amount of physical presence was needed (part of which was based on @Mataiou’s reports of his experience complaining about the telecoms issue, which I thought - possibly incorrectly - involved at least one physical meeting or dropping something off at the office, or something).
The points I’ve made are really quite simple:
There’s no reason for OP to volunteer the information that they’re never coming back to Taiwan (if that’s the case). I don’t think it’s in their interest to emphasize this.
Some things, especially banking, are more difficult to do from outside the country than they are inside the country. It’s possible you disagree and find Taiwan’s banking sector to be an electronic utopia where everything is possible online, and it’s fine we disagree.
OP doesn’t lose anything by complaining again to the bank, especially as we don’t know how much complaining, if any, they’ve already done. It’s entirely possible that just speaking to a different person and insisting they need to return the owed money, with the threat of complaining to the FSC/FOI, will lead to a solution. You seem to think that complaining to the FOI should be the first step for every problem. I don’t, if the problem can be solved otherwise. It’s fine that we disagree.
This is where I decide once again to stop interacting with you because I find you obnoxious and arguing for the sake of arguing. I thought you’d improved over the last couple of months, but apparently not, in which case I can’t be bothered with you.
that was however via the consumer ombudsman, which is different from the financial counterpart. As per my understanding, very exceptional cases would require hearings, there is no physical meeting concept of mediation for financial consumers, it’s the panel who rules based on the evidence gathered and the law, like a “trial in absentia” almost haha.
Absolutely agree that the OP doesn’t lose anything by lodging a complaint with the FOI first and then potentially moving up with the mediation.
exactly, everything is done via the FOI website and in English, although official responses are sent only in Chinese (and a very bureaucratic Chinese at that).
No Comfy123 is on point in my humble opinion. There’s no need to ask a bank a second or third time. I asked Taiwan Co Operative bank about a request they would not comply with. They said cannot be done so I went right to the FSC. FSC Contacted the bank and the staff were shocked and the branch staff called me. We had a meeting. They could not reply with my request as it would mean a change their IT department would have to do. I said then tell them to do their jobs.
BTW the staff replied to HQ and now HQ had to explain to the FSC why they cannot do as requested. The FSC said tell the IT department to do their job then. Saying it would take a lot of work time was not a valid excuse for the bank.
All banks accept it. It’s on every single bank’s website that all you need to open an account is your passport and the ID number paper and occasionally proof of address.
Just because the staff are idiots doesn’t mean they ‘don’t accept it anymore’
I got it around late 2017 or early 2018 (IIRC) and wasn’t able to open an account with it (I think at E.Sun, Yuanta, and one other, don’t remember). I was told by bank employees that they wouldn’t accept it, though admittedly I didn’t pursue it that much beyond 10-15 minutes of arguing (in large part because I didn’t really care about having a local bank account at the time).
There have been many, many reports in the various Facebook groups of people having exactly the same problem since around that time.
Your experience was obviously different, though I’m not sure how much you had to argue. If I remember correctly, having to constantly fight over silly stuff like this is part of the reason you decided to leave Taiwan. You’ll notice that I also wrote “this hasn’t been easy since around 2017/18” and “It might be possible to fight it at each bank, but I think it’d be an uphill battle.”
I don’t think that “all banks accept it” is much more of an accurate description than “most banks don’t accept it” in conjunction with the rest of what I wrote, if “all banks accept it” has a little asterisk that says each individual customer has to fight with each individual branch for however long for it to be accepted so they can open a limited account.
One of the problems with government owned banks is always the answer is but it’s always been this way. They are not with the mindset of oh there is an issue let’s get it resolved. The real truth is though that branches anywhere cannot change policy or get requests done. They have no authority to do anything. It has to go to the HQ with a rocket up their arse.
Understand that you’re sticking up for your friend.
Once again, we don’t know how much complaining/asking they’ve done to their bank. OP didn’t say. From what they’ve written, it’s entirely possible they made one phone call and were fobbed off by the first employee they spoke to it wasn’t possible to withdraw without an ARC. That kind of thing isn’t unusual in Taiwan, as I’m sure you know.
I simply think it’s worth a second call and more complaining. If others don’t and think the UN or whoever needs to be contacted immediately, that’s up to them. I disagree.
That sounds like a physical meeting? A bit more difficult once one is already outside Taiwan.
I’ve been a business customer with the bank for many years. I have a good relationship with them actually. So yes when an issue is sent to the FSC they contact the banks HQ who then contact the branch. They did call on the phone and we discussed on the phone. But as I was going to be in the branch anyway for a business transaction I scheduled a meeting. Physical meetings can be great and you meet other people in the bank you may not have met before.
Comfy123 actually called during my meeting by chance so added him in on speaker phone.
We actually discussed with the staff things like requesting foreigners to have a guarantor for a credit card, or a mortgage rate higher simply because one is a foreigner not a citizen. You need to understand the bank staff just follow the rules they are given. They cannot just make changes. No point in getting upset with them. Comfy123 and I had a jovial conversation.
What surprised the bank staff was they we even knew about the FSC and the Financial Ombudsman. I told them we make it our mission to get banks to make changes and follow international standard and will write in complaints.
The staff were actually supportive.
I’m a citizen for 25 years so I don’t have all the same issues you guys have now. How ever 30 years ago I had managed to get car loan house loan credit cards as a foreigner on an ARC not even APRC back then. It was not easy took lots of meetings and discussions.
I want to clarify I have only spoken to one employee of the bank whom I speak through LINE. She is a friend to our family friend and I believe she is trying her best in helping me. I don’t have contacts of anyone else working in the bank.
To give power of attorney to someone else over my bank account is possible but the money that is yet to be remitted to me from the insurance savings plan , can only be me in person(with ARC), the bank employee said.
I am not in Taiwan currently, but will be next month, only for 5 days. I will go to the bank.
I have asked if she could confirm again about the requirement of ARC.
If it’s still a yes, I think I’ll probably have to send a complaint to the FSC or FOI, not sure which one? never done such thing before.
Please go ahead and point me to where I said it’s “impossible”? I didn’t. I didn’t say “can’t” either. I suggested (in three different ways) that it’s difficult, because it is, and I also said that it might be possible to fight it at each bank. Please don’t misrepresent what I wrote.
This is what I said:
If your definition of “accept” includes bank employees literally telling customers they don’t accept it, then the bank begrudgingly and eventually agreeing to open an account for the small minority of customers who are willing to fight back and complain enough about it, fine. For me “accept” suggests something a bit more than that.
Perhaps I could have written “most banks don’t easily accept that piece of paper anymore” or “most banks make it extremely difficult to open an account with that piece of paper nowadays”, but I already expressed that concept and that it’s difficult rather than impossible in the two sentences either side of that.
