Banning Kids Part Uno

Discussion Open Forum
1

Should kids be banned from most restaurants/planes?

  • Yes.
  • No.
  • Yes, but not my kids.

0 voters

I hate kids. They are smelly. They are ugly.
And most of all, they are noisy.

I was in Tao Yuan and I happened to become hungry. Being a day yielding pathetic weather I decided to go into a hot pot shop to enjoy a nice meal.
However, no sooner had I sat down when a family with a couple of 1 or 2 year olds came in.
As soon as they sat down the children started to cry - that piercing shrill that actually hurts your ears and cracks china.
But the parents just sat there talking, not paying attention to their screaming children.
Now I would be lying if I said this was purely a Taiwanese problem as it happens everywhere, particularly where long haul flights are concerned.

So I have some proposals:

1): Kids under 5 should be banned from all restaurants.
2): Kids under 7 should be banned from passenger aircraft. Provision will be made for children to fly in cargo aircraft in a special noise poof container so that they comply with international airport noise abatement regulations. They will face a mandatory 6 month quarrantine session at destination.
3): Children should not be allowed to travel on passenger trains (or any public transport). Special frieght trains will be provided, again with noise proof containers.
4): All children should be in bed asleep by 1730. Any child not complying will be taken away and sold to extra terrestrials.

Now I’m only half serious, but children can ruin a good meal, a long flight or even a holiday. I think parents who take their kids on a plane on vacation should be shot for being stupid. Generally, children in public places such as restaurants and busses are a complete nuisance and are more of a disturbance than dogs and people who smoke.

I’m at home with a headache now, completely pissed off.

:fume:

2

What next? How about putting them in capsules and giving them a general anaesthetic for the duration of the flight/trip? :laughing: No, that not funny. Without children the world would be a dull place.

3

Cool, so you’ll babysit for us when we go back to NY this summer? :smiley:

As for the restaurant, think about it from the parent’s POV. The kids are hungry and grouchy, mom and dad are pissed at each for some fight about the kids and hungry and grouchy. They finally found a place to eat after looking for a parking spot for 25 minutes. The baby just shit her diaper and Jr. needs to pee for the 30th time since breakfast.

At least you get to go home alone with your headache. Mom and Dad are stuck with those little bastards for 18 more years.

:smiley:

4

Dangermouse,
let me guess, you were an angelic child who never left the house?

5

Children should be seen and not heard when in public. And in some cases, even the sight of them is annoying…

6

[quote=“jdsmith”]

At least you get to go home alone with your headache. Mom and Dad are stuck with those little bastards for 18 more years.

:smiley:[/quote]

Yeah, but Mom and Dad chose to have kids, it’s fair that they have to live with them. Inflicting those little bastards on other people is not nice. :wink:

7

Props to you DM for having the nuts to take this position, though it’s unpopular. :bravo:

8

DM you are OTT here, however I do get the general sentiment of your post.

You don’t like kids spoiling everything. Well, parents have am obligation to teach their kids how to behave in public, in order to minimize their children’s pestering of everybody within earshot.

That said, sometimes you can’t control it. I once flew to Denmark with my girls - alone. The youngest felt horrible about planes back then and cried all the way from Copenhagen to Bangkok (8,000 kilometers or 11 hrs.)

Short of wrapping her into lots of towels there was no way of stopping her.

Should I have left her at home? My parents would have killed me.

Also, your suggestion about banning kids under 7 from airplanes ignore the fact that there are well-behaved kids below that age, which can keep them self entertained without making noise for 12 hours if need be. My girls are 8 and 5 and they have been pleasures to fly with since 2004. Honestly.

9

when you’re done with jd’s kids, you can take our little guy for three weeks this summer, since he’s banned from the plane. and his grandma just may come looking for you … :smiling_imp:

:wink:

10

Being that I’ve been in TW for almost 3 years, I can only reflect on child rearing here, as my opinion of the States is sorely outdated.

I hate the way children are reared here, and yet I like it also. My problem is how mothers and fathers allow their sons to act like little tyrants yet, they are very tight on the leash with their daughters. Granted, it’s apart of the ethos concerning the status of men and women.

When kids are acting up, I give the dirty look. If they are really acting a fool, then I’ll say something. Like in church the other night, when I told a mother to get her kid in line. The kid stared at me, but knew not to keep pulling anymore BS.

There comes a point and time where a child must begin to learn limitations. A 1 or 2 year old may not be able to comprehend the impact of their behaviour so it’s necessary to be patient and continuously guide them. But a 7 year old can comprehend it, and should be held accountable for his/her actions.

11

[quote=“Dangermouse”]whinge… whine… whinge… whine…
whinge… whine… whinge… whine
… whine

… whinge… whine

whine… whine… whinge… whinge…[/quote]
You’re such a baby, DM :unamused:

Plus, if they really banned children from restaurants, we couldn’t go anywhere for dinner.

12

When the doors opened on my MRT train at Taipei Main Station one day last week, and I started to get off, some young kid came running and pushing his way onto the train through the middle of all of the people trying to get off who had right of way. I alone reprimanded the kid while 5 or 6 pathetically passive Taiwanese adults just watched with stupid looks on their faces. While this could happen anywhere, here, precious few of them seem to get the concept at all. On to the issue at hand.

As much as I wanted to vote yes, I voted no. It isn’t practical and some families wouldn’t deserve such treatment.

However, I would fully support standards of conduct, and banning those who willfully do not comply.

If every time a child acted obnoxious in public, his/her parent was kicked in the ass, this societal problem would soon cease to exist. The problem is not really the child. The child is merely the symptom of a parent that is too incapable, uninterested, or self-absorbed to properly train the child and then hold the child accountable.

The even larger problem is not the individual cases of this behavior in public … it is the sad fact that society overall has become more tolerant of it.

13

Kind of on topic and kind of off topic…

Spanking? Does it work? I don’t mean beating your kid with a stick, rather just a good firm swat to the behind.

My niece age 5, I love her dearly, but is a spoiled brat. My brother and his wife decided to never use the word “no” while raising their children. After I was scolded for telling her no when she nearly broke a very valuable piece of art in my home, I had a long earnest talk with my brother. “Are you nuts?!?!” was my general tone.

He said that they prefer to use positive words rather than negative words. Instead of saying, “No, you shouldn’t touch that because it is fragile.” (Notice the two negatives in that sentence) he prefers “That is for grown ups to touch because it is fragile” (no negative). 2 minutes later she was playing with the item again while mom and dad were talking to other family members. I took the item and placed it higher out of reach. 2 minutes later she found another very fragile item to “play” with. Again, I bit my toungue and moved the object out of reach. By the end of their visit all fragile items were up high or locked away in places she couldnt get to. This was MY home! I shouldnt have to “child proof” it! He should teach her to have more self control.

Saying “NO” is using a firm action word. A child can associate the tone and simple word “NO” and understand that whatever they are doing needs to stop because it is: dangerous, disrespectful or innapropriate. 3 strikes of a “no” = a swat to the butt and a time out or other similar punishment.

The other annoying thing is when they bring their children over they cease to be parents, it is expected that the family watch, feed, entertain, clean up after, and take care of the kids while mom and dad “visit”. Drives me nuts!

On topic:
No matter what country you are from or are visiting, kids will be kids. They are constantly learning. They are growing sponges of curiosity. They will mis behave, they will test the boundaries of their limits, they will cry, scream, shout, wimper, make messes, stink, pee and poop alot, and be rug rats. However, it is the PARENTS job to ensure that there are limits set, that there are consequences to actions, that there is equal enforcement of rules for all the kids.

I dont think banning kids is a good solution…but i do think a cattle prod to the rear end of the parent is a great idea. Maybe a shock collar like they have for barking dogs, except for the parent. When the child misbehaves, the parent gets a good jolt of electricity. Good motivation to keep junior in check.

14

Be fair. Not all kids are beasts. Not all adults are reasonable in thier expecations of kids (children are to be seen, but not heard kind of stuff).

Not all adults behave suitably around kids either. More than once I’ve been questioned by my kids (7 & 8), “Why are they doing that?” when faced with table of loud, drunk adults (sometimes before 11am :astonished: ).

However, I’ve found that all I have to do to get my kids to behave is point to kids like the one in the posted pic. are say " do you want to be like that?!? " Its very convenient.

Treat kids resonably and they will behave resonably. They “get” more than we think, I think.

15

Yes, all parents should be superheroes who can telekinetically control their child’s every move. This would prevent all the horrific tragedies of a child actually making audible sounds in the presence of strangers…

16

That would solve the problem. :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Kids are like cigarettes. If you chose to have them then that’s your choice and nobody should be able to tell you you’re wrong. But if you choose not to then people shouldn’t be able to inflict them on you.

I’m with whoever commented that kids are not taught to be considerate in Taiwan. Consideration for others is just not part of the culture. On the other hand, most people don’t seem to mind.

17

I wish that when the topic is children that posters could mention whether or not thay have children of their own. Most of the time it is fairly obvious, but you never know.

I think if you have your own children your perspective changes quite a lot. If I didn’t have any kids I might be bothered by sceaming kids in a restaurant or plane. I know that although my daughter is quite pleasant most times, she can also get upset. It may be very difficult to feel empathy for these kids/parents unless you’ve been there.

18

IMO this is the key element. Personal accountability for ones actions.
Much of Taiwans problems, as well as the worlds problems, would cease to exist if this concept was taught to children from a young age. And they grew up with it as a guide for their life.

Welcome back Nama… :sunglasses:

19

I find this whole thing rather bizzare, esp. on a forum where some of the people that post make their living from teaching children. I think kids are not so much the problem but more so the parents. I have three kids that turn 8years this summer and ever since they were born I take them to restaurants and obviously also on air planes. I take them to Alleycats, the Hyatt’s Bel Air or wherever we choose to go and no problem, never spanked a kid and just occasionaly have to get a bit loud in a sense to make sure the message gets accross. I find this topic really, really OTT! While on it, we had an Easter Sunday event esp. for kids yesterday afternoon at the Tavern-Premier and whilst of course a bit more chaos than usual, not any louder than during a football broadcast. Have to add that the vast majority of the kids that were attending are the result of purely foreign or mixed marriages. It is certainly correct that Chinese Kids are quite often a bit less behaved, in a sense the parents do not care what their children do when they enjoy drinking, eating and talking away with their friends.

20

I hate adults. They think they are so big.