I’ve been in trouble on this one before. I wrote in response to a letter in Business Traveller magazine. The gist of which was that a fellow passenger had complained about their child (who was sick) in 1st class on a long haul flight.
I took the stance that children do not get the same benefits as adults (leg room, ability to work, fancy food etc.) in premium class flight decks and thus should not be allowed. Particularly in an Asian context where many parents (even locals) have help who could sit in the back with the kids for less than the cost of a Business, or first class ticket.
I did point out that there are well behaved children and if their parents choose to pay the extra (or company stumps it up) I have no problem with them.
Unfortunately I wrote this on the flight and hit send and forgot about it. My e.mail has a signature block with my full name, position and company name all of which were printed…and I got a lot of stick from senior people with kids…for those who hadn’t worked it out I don’t have any.
My parents never took holidays with us when we were small and I really don’t see why it is necessary to fly small children around the world. Even in economy it is at best selfish on long haul flights and could be easily resolved by flying granparents out until the kids are old enough to respond to a clip round the ear.
Just my 2cents.
Oh, and I HATE seeing small children in restaurants at like midnight…whats with that?
Edgar Allen, so that means I could not bring my family to Europe for a summer vacation or should we travel by boat? I do agree that children up to a certain age should not be in business or first class. When I am on a business trip, I fly business or first class but certainly not when I take the youngsters with me. Obviously cost difference but more so, I would not want to spoil them but would not be happy to have a noisy traveller next to me when paying prime rates to travel. Children should of course be in bed at midnight, rather than in a restaurant, think we all agree on this.
Not sure the age of your children, but if they are under 15 I would advise not taking them They will not remember it in detail later in life and would probably prefer hanging with their friends, and having granny to look after them while mum and dad get away for some quality present buying.
Also, Europe? Not sure it is safe for young children…=-)
I took my daughter to the States when she was two. She cried a lot. She cries a lot anyway. I’m sure many people on the plane hated me. But fuck 'em, I’d do it again. She doesn’t remember the trip, but I do.
EA, this is a load of bollocks, of course children remember overseas trips! As said earlier, they turn 8 this summer and they remember even their vacation when they just turned 3. They have friends in Europe as well and what the heck are you talking about Europe (Switzerland that is) not being safe for children! By the way, my father was an expat and I was born in the Middle East and we left Beirut when I was 2 1/2 and I still remember bits and pieces of it.
Personally, when I hear a kid screaming nowadays on a plan - I just chuckle. I chuckle even harder when all these types in business class get upset - personally I can’t hear it anymore (after 2) after going to grad school with a 3 & 4 year old. Anyway - on goes the sound cancelling headphones and I really don’t hear anything anymore.
[quote]Particularly in an Asian context where many parents (even locals) have help who could sit in the back with the kids for less than the cost of a Business, or first class ticket.
[/quote]
What the ()&^)( ? What are we going back to the days when the help and the kids travelled separately (my grandmother had to do this)
[quote]Not sure the age of your children, but if they are under 15[/quote] If you want well behaved children, that handle travel well, you need to start young. Then they get used to it and learn how to deal with being stuck in a seat for 15hrs. They also learn that the rest of the world is not necessarily like home and that they need to adjust - and that once they adjust they can enjoy it. My kids enjoy it now and hate to get “left behind” (Thier words).
Same goes for fancy restaurants. I went to one place in NYC where the Maitre’d told me one peep from the kids and we were out of there. I didn’t make a big deal, but before I had told my kids that if they wanted to go to adult places, they needed to behave like adults. If they wanted to behave like kids, we could get a babysitter (we often do) - in the end they behaved well enough to get a “special” dessert from the same Maitre’d. However, it did take a couple trial runs at lesser establishments and one early check to get to that stage (if you say do XXX or we’re going to leave - don’t pull-back - leave - you’ll probably only need to do it once)
What’s the point? I beleive that if you want the kids to behave, you have to get them used to it from day one.
[quote=“Elegua”]
Same goes for fancy restaurants. I went to one place in NYC where the Maitre’d told me one peep from the kids and we were out of there. I didn’t make a big deal, but before I had told my kids that if they wanted to go to adult places, they needed to behave like adults. If they wanted to behave like kids, we could get a babysitter (we often do) - in the end they behaved well enough to get a “special” dessert from the same Maitre’d. However, it did take a couple trial runs at lesser establishments and one early check to get to that stage (if you say do XXX or we’re going to leave - don’t pull-back - leave - you’ll probably only need to do it once)
What’s the point? I beleive that if you want the kids to behave, you have to get them used to it from day one.[/quote]
:bravo: :bravo: The Maitre’d wouldn’t have had to say that if people no matter where they come from would handle their business.
As for the flight thing, kids aren’t dogs. You can’t just find a kennel and put them in it for the duration of your trip. :loco: I don’t care for it either when I"ve been on flights where kids have been crying and screaming. But I get it, as a former smoker, I’ve wanted to join in with them after 5 non-smoking hours and having to watch dumb ass in-flight movies with Hugh Grant. If they are babies, there’s not much you can do, but practice patience. But if the kid is running around and making noise at the age of 5 and up, that parent better watch out for me, because I will say something and it ain’t pass the peanuts.
My feeling is that if you can’t stomach flying, EA, you should make alternative arrangements. Crying kids are sometimes part of flying, like it or not.
By far the most irritating thing for me isn’t kids crying but having a complaining fat prick sat next to me who insists on calling the stewardess every five fucking minutes for more water then complaining vociferously that it’s too cold or too hot whatever the fuck was the matter with it. And refusing to sit on the aisle for some obscure reason. And then getting up to pee every half-hour. All. the. fucking. way. from HK. to. Frankfurt.
THEY’RE the people who should be banned from traveling by air.
Just what do you suppose you do with your kids when you have to travel? Leave them with strangers? Maybe there’s a kid storage locker in the airport. To say that it is selfish to want to show your kids your home and let them experience a different culture is ridiculous. Someone is selfish but it isn’t the parents of kids on planes.
I went to Montreal when I was four and remember some of it very well. Using your logic, we could just leave a baby in it’s crib looking at the ceiling until it is three or four because it will not remember anything else. Kids learn from different experiences, including flying in an airplane, whether or not they remember the whole experience.
As for first and business classes, leave that up to the airlines. If enough traveller’s complain and refuse that airline because of their policies, then things will probably change.
I love flying, I’ve clocked up 1/2 million miles with Cathay alone in the last 5 years. I just don’t understand selfish parents who inflict poorly behaved children on other. Flying is just one example, and I get specifically peeved about badly behaved kids in the premium cabins.
Sorry, just my pet peeve.
I love kids, they are fun to play with, wind up and hand back.
Not quite as much fun as the parents though, who are usually over defensive (I assume) because they know that their kids are brats and out of control…
I had a lot of disturbing people on flights, most of them actually grown ups. If Kids were disturbing than most of the time actually their parents were almost more disturbing.
I never had bigger problems with my son. He behaves well and on the last flight from Europe to here he was more than fine for anybody around. He was 5 at that time. Of course he will have times when he gets bored or naughty but than it is up to me to do something to keep him in mood.
I just experienced that parents here are sometimes a bit strange (or let’s say the percentage is higher). They let the kids behave like kings and instead of changing theire education, they just seem to tolerate that they have to say something 10 times without any reaction.
The funny thing is, that if I tell my son he is starting to behaving like his cousins here he imeadatly changes back.
And while all the relatives avoid to take care of each others kids (if the can without “hurting” the family) they all would love to take care of him (while most of the time he refuses… )
So I can agree with others here, bann the parents who are not able to handle it and maybe also bann the grown ups who have no clue how to behave. That would help most I think.
I need to fly back to Canada this June with a one year old and a two year old all my myself. Am I looking forward to it? Nope. Am I worried sick about how other passengers will react? Yes, but what other choice is there? I cannot fly out my whole damn family and they are dying to see the kids ( they’ve never even met the youngest yet)
I plan to bring a big ass bag full of little toys, snacks, crayons, stickers and the like and hope just to surive the flight with as little trauma as possible to the kids, myself or the other passengers.
[quote=“piwackit”]I need to fly back to Canada this June with a one year old and a two year old all my myself. Am I looking forward to it? Nope. Am I worried sick about how other passengers will react? Yes, but what other choice is there? I cannot fly out my whole damn family and they are dying to see the kids ( they’ve never even met the youngest yet)
I plan to bring a big ass bag full of little toys, snacks, crayons, stickers and the like and hope just to surive the flight with as little trauma as possible to the kids, myself or the other passengers.[/quote]
don’t sweat it. way i figure, you pay for a plane seat you’re paying for just that, never noticed on fine print on ticket that peace and quiet you might find in for example your living room were included. you do your best, if someone doesn’t like it let them complain to the airline that sold you the–just about full price for the 2yo–tickets.
:loco: I don’t care for it either when I"ve been on flights where kids have been crying and screaming. But I get it, as a former smoker, I’ve wanted to join in with them after 5 non-smoking hours and having to watch dumb ass in-flight movies with Hugh Grant. 
If they are babies, there’s not much you can do, but practice patience. But if the kid is running around and making noise at the age of 5 and up, that parent better watch out for me, because I will say something and it ain’t pass the peanuts.
