Bar is set lower for people with a "foreign face"?

[Dr_Milker]

@maria156

When he got desperate he started applying to things like marketing, sales, teaching, and so on.

Your friend needs to do more networking and less random e-mailing. One would assume that if he’s Taiwanese-American he has relatives or friends of the family in the workforce? One introduction is worth 100,000 e-mails.

[Terry_B]

@bdog

Another startup that wanted to be all nerd cool and have a few stickered laptop Patagonia vest wearing nerd whiteboys walking around, thinking that somehow made them look more international

Are they still hiring?

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

They might in the states or it may be in the kind of things he didn’t train for. If the family were all government workers networking does nothing to get you in because in Taiwan all government job is based on nothing more than test scores. Taiwanese Americans are seriously disadvantaged here because the level of Chinese necessary to pass those tests are very advanced.

[Dr_Milker]

@Taiwan_Luthiers

If the family were all government workers networking does nothing to get you in because in Taiwan all government job is based on nothing more than test scores.

That’s a pretty defeatest attitude. Those government workers are bound to know people in all different fields, and those connections can be put to use. I’ve gotten most of my jobs here through connections, and I’m a foreigner for god’s sake.

[RustyShackleford]

@Dr_Milker

One would assume that if he’s Taiwanese-American he has relatives or friends of the family in the workforce?

@Taiwan_Luthiers

They might in the states or it may be in the kind of things he didn’t train for. If the family were all government workers networking does nothing to get you in because in Taiwan all government job is based on nothing more than test scores. Taiwanese Americans are seriously disadvantaged here because the level of Chinese necessary to pass those tests are very advanced.

My two cents as an ABC living in Taiwan - I don’t have any friends or family who are still in the work force here. Either they’re all in the States, or they’ve been retired for long enough that they don’t matter anymore. Guanxi could go a long way but even my dad who moved back here to retire has been out of Taiwan long enough that he might as well be a foreigner.

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

I speak from experience. Everyone in my family was senior government worker and if I wanted to work for the government I have to take the test and pass. It’s extremely difficult and nothing anyone in my family can do to jump the queue.

And the test questions are extremely difficult. I scored 2 out of 100 on the Chinese portion.

[Dr_Milker]

@Taiwan_Luthiers

I speak from experience. Everyone in my family was senior government worker and if I wanted to work for the government I have to take the test and pass. It’s extremely difficult and nothing anyone in my family can do to jump the queue.

So maybe don’t apply for a government job?

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

I’m saying that not all guanxi matter. Government work is one of them, unless you can prove that you have a skill they desperately need.

Also I noticed in Taiwan especially among commoners (anyone not white collar office worker) there is actually disdain for Taiwanese Americans. We’re not treated as bad as Filipinos but it’s close sometimes.

You do know that many Filipinos are native English speakers right? Do you see many of them teaching at cram schools or working as tech writers?

If you’re ABC you may have to commit fraud to get a job (as in use a foreign name, make ups, even fake foreign IDs) to overcome this.

[crusher]

@maria156

I’m not talking just in the Buxibans, but in general here. It’s pretty much an open secret that the bar to get work for a foreigner in a Buxiban is quite low.

I was talking to a friend recently who managed to get out of the Buxiban rat race and got a job as a tech writer at a respectable company. He is not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but he said that he managed to “break in” in March of this year, and by October was headhunted by two other companies, including the one he’s working at now. He did so with relative ease (a phone call and in-person interview), and in a short time period.

I mentioned this to my Taiwanese-American friend who has a master’s in a tech field. His Chinese isn’t the best. Although it’s passable, in that he can converse, understand newspapers, and Taiwanese TV, he might not be able to sit in meetings and deliver a detailed business speech in Chinese. He however speaks English natively and speaks Japanese amazingly well. This Taiwanese-American friend said he sent out 500+ applications in things like tech writing and engineering, gotten maybe a handful of interviews, and has yet to get accepted at a job.

Apparently the Taiwanese-American guy said he was given an impromptu essay to write in English, or to make an impromptu business speech in Chinese, told his accent made him hard to understand, etc.

Is it really that bad in Taiwan where you will be held to a higher standard depending on what passport you hold and how you look?

It’s way harder to get teaching jobs if you don’t have a North American accent, over 40 years old, and many many other factors. Would a white face help? Yes , but just as one of many factors. I know plenty of African Americans who have landed way better work than most people I know. Additionally being super smart would not be the first factor I’d look for in hiring a kids teacher (I managed quite a large cram school 15 years before for one year), rather I’d want someone who is good with kids and knows how to teach in a way kids find interesting and fun. Sometimes the smartest people make the worst teachers. Incidently, my boss did discriminate against other south east Asians but hired plenty of “Chinese Americans” and “African Americans” if they could teach reagrdless if they were smart or dim. That was over 12 years ago and I would guess things have progressed. You’re over simplifying , and someone who is able to do technical writing might not be the most entertaining teacher (sorry for the discrimination against technical writers).

[Rocket]

@Taiwan_Luthiers

…there is actually disdain for Taiwanese Americans

Only among people who know them.

[RustyShackleford]

@Taiwan_Luthiers

I speak from experience. Everyone in my family was senior government worker and if I wanted to work for the government I have to take the test and pass. It’s extremely difficult and nothing anyone in my family can do to jump the queue.

And the test questions are extremely difficult. I scored 2 out of 100 on the Chinese portion.

With regard to Private Sector jobs, I’ve been tested on Chinese a few times. Many of the times it’s basically similar to what you would find on the Taiwanese College Entrance Examination, which while isn’t hard for locals, would be difficult for some ABC’s. Meanwhile my foreigner friend who interviewed at the same company reported that she only had to orally answer questions like “妳叫什麼名字?” “妳可以什麼時候開始工作?” or “妳要在台灣待多久?” (What’s your name? When can you start work? How long to you plan to stay in Taiwan?")

[Incubus]

@Terry_B

a lot of local Taiwanese say they are “American-Chinese” or even “ABCs” despite being nothing of the sort. Some immigrated when they were young, some went to college in a foreign country and, in a few cases that I can remember, simply studied abroad for some period of time.

A lot of locals think an “ABC” is someone who grew up learning ABC, even someone who only began learning it in a high school in Monterey Park, CA.

[maria156]

He had a few brief gigs as a teacher but he didn’t like it. He wants to get out, hence why he’s trying to transition from part-time buxiban gigs to technical writing.

[Andrew0409]

@bluejasn

For Buxiban its definitely the case that a White Italian or French person who has a thick accent and poor grasp of English will in many cases get the job over an American, Australian or Canadian Taiwanese who speaks English natively

Taiwanese people can be really dumb about this. My girls dad is a lawyer and lectures in Taiwan sometimes. He asks why they take his class, people say to learn English. He has a thick Italian accent.

[bluejasn]

I knew several Italians who came here to teach English, they definitely were not fluent. Some Germans I’ve met are really fluent in English though.

[maria156]

I knew several Italians who came here to teach English, they definitely were not fluent. Some Germans I’ve met are really fluent in English though.

Since we’re not really talking about teaching English, but rather office jobs which require Chinese, that’s kind of beside the point?

[DrewC]

@maria156

I was talking to a friend recently who managed to get out of the Buxiban rat race and got a job as a tech writer at a respectable company. He is not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, but he said that he managed to “break in” in March of this year, and by October was headhunted by two other companies, including the one he’s working at now. He did so with relative ease (a phone call and in-person interview), and in a short time period.

I wonder what your “friend” would think about you throwing shade at him about both his intelligence and the fact you think he shouldn’t have gotten his job.

Sometimes people get lucky. Or maybe he has expertise and skills suited for that particular field that you aren’t aware of.

I do agree the ESL industry prefers native speakers to instruct in English. But I don’t think that extends to all fields, such as tech and engineering. It’s possible some companies just prefer foreign degrees to degrees attained at Taiwanese universities, and so that gives the impression of westerners being favored.

[bdog]

@RustyShackleford

Meanwhile my foreigner friend who interviewed at the same company reported that she only had to orally answer questions like “妳叫什麼名字?” “妳可以什麼時候開始工作?” or “妳要在台灣待多久?” (What’s your name? When can you start work? How long to you plan to stay in Taiwan?")

Are you serious? That’s crazy pressure… Hope she came through it ok…

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

I have seen Russian that barely speaks English teach English…

[bdog]

The letters look kind of similar?